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Making Gay Sheep Straight | 69 comments (69 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Making Gay Sheep Straight (none / 1)

"Defect" seems to be in the eye of the beholder. Parents in many parts of the world are now selecting the gender of their children.

Many feel that being a female is a "defect"...

Homosexuality may not be a "defect" but does it have any positive aspects that would make parents want to chose this for their child?

Policies not Politics
--- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Sun Dec 31st, 2006 at 10:47:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Making Gay Sheep Straight (4.00 / 2)

gender selection is also wrong in my book.

Doing My Part For The Left

by refinish69 (refinish69 at gmail dot com) on Sun Dec 31st, 2006 at 11:06:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Which is why China now has more men (4.00 / 4)

than women.

Once they found that they could do it, parents wouldn't have to go through the shame of having only girls (they only allow one or two children) to carry on the family name.

And China would have a bigger army.

Result?

More males than females...and they can't find enough women with whom to have children for the next generation. Which means that some Chinese men will not be able to marry or must find wives from other nations.

I look on these experiments as I do the FDA approving cloned animals being used for meat. These animals have been shown to die earlier. From what we don't know yet.

No way I'd want to eat this thing.

NO WAY are these results going to help people as a whole.

In my view, it goes against the Constitution, and against human rights.

When people get this desperate, it's about eugenics--keeping the 'race' pure.

Guess what?

The 'race' makes no sense and maybe it's supposed to be that way. Making it pure...and perfect.

An untypical Negro

by blksista (gab1954@gmail.com) on Sun Dec 31st, 2006 at 11:17:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Which is why China now has more men (4.00 / 2)

The whole reason behind Chinese orphans/adoptions is far more complex than the "shame" of having girls. There is of course the "one child" rule and the lack of a comprehensive health care plan, thus a lack of access to birth control. This lack of health care has also meant a large number of children abandoned due to birth defects and health problems(both genders).

China is still 70% agricultural, thus boys are preferred for heavy labor. Also, Chinese traditions hold sons as the parents' social security pension, with elder parents moving in or remaining with sons.

I think that officials know they have a problem. The Chinese government has recently tried public relation campaigns to convince people to keep daughters. The government has also slowed down the rate of international adoptions by trying to increase the number of internal adoptions.

Having said all that, I can't tell you how shocked people are that we have a son from China. Many N. American Chinese immigrants have told us how "lucky" we are (which we are). What I don't know, of course, is what they tell the parents of daughters.

Visit me at Tunnel Traveller

by Teacher Toni (tacoralatyahoodotcom) on Sun Dec 31st, 2006 at 01:37:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I witnessed first hand how sons (none / 1)

are who care for the parents in the Asian world. I got a very enlarged view in fact of a very gracious son/nephew doing this in Korea. They were remodeling all the living quarters at Camp Humphrey when we were there so we lived in the village next to camp Humphrey. We rented an apartment from a restaurant owner who ran his business on the first floor and had two apartments on the two additional building levels. He was doing well financially, his restaurant always had someone in it eating and two regular rentals that almost always had a soldier and family in them even when the housing on post was being used single soldiers live in most of those. He had a small courtyard across the street surrounded by sleeping quarters and there you would find his parents two Aunts and one Uncle, and he supported them in their old age. They worked with him in his daily venture as their health allowed and cared for and looked out for his children daily and hourly. He was handling more than his fair share of his family elderly.

PMS Purchase More Shoes

by Militarytracy on Sun Dec 31st, 2006 at 02:07:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I witnessed first hand how sons (none / 1)

Thanks for sharing this real life story Tracy. It certainly breathes life into a situation that could easily (particularly by a feminist like me) be dismissed as simply sexist.

Visit me at Tunnel Traveller

by Teacher Toni (tacoralatyahoodotcom) on Sun Dec 31st, 2006 at 03:47:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Which is why China now has more men (none / 0)

The reason cloned animals die younger and have the diseases of old age has been discovered. Basically aging is as a result of each cell division causing the DNA to start to "fray" or "unravel" at the ends. They appear to be able to determine the "age" if you like of a cell by the amount of damage the DNA in it has sustained.

With a cloned animal you take a cell from an adult and inject the DNA into an egg which has already had its own DNA removed (this is very simplistic). So, for example, if you tried to clone a 20year old man, the cell you started with would be "20 years old" and the new born baby would have the same cell damage as if they were 21.

There is a broader question nobody seems to have asked yet. They seem to have convinced themselves that firstly they have found a "cause" for homosexual rams and secondly that the "remedy" they propose will be equally applicable to humans. Flip into their imagined future where every pregnant woman dutifully wears her patch if they are having a boy. All the boys turn out to be butch red bloodied heterosexuals. What are the scientists doing about lesbians?

by Londonbear (bearATzooDOTcoDOTuk) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 05:01:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Making Gay Sheep Straight (none / 0)

I'm talking about true genetic defects. There is no "eye of the beholder" in strict scientific ethics.

Don't tread on me

by BobX on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 08:18:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Making Gay Sheep Straight (none / 0)

I'm not sure what you mean by "strict scientific ethics". Science is a powerful tool for learning facts, but facts are merely one input to ethical decision-making: Different values can lead to different decisions in response to the same facts.

Some parents prefer defects:

Wanting to have children who follow in one's footsteps is an understandable desire. But a coming article in the journal Fertility and Sterility offers a fascinating glimpse into how far some parents may go to ensure that their children stay in their world -- by intentionally choosing malfunctioning genes that produce disabilities like deafness or dwarfism.
NYT: Wanting Babies Like Themselves, Some Parents Choose Genetic Defects

I'd call this wrong, and for fundamental reasons, but I wouldn't call those reasons "scientific". Facts cannot imply the rightness of values (and this is OK).

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.

by technopolitical on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 04:26:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fair enough (none / 0)

I guess what I was getting at more than ethic was method.

Don't tread on me

by BobX on Tue Jan 2nd, 2007 at 09:35:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Making Gay Sheep Straight | 69 comments (69 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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