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Display:
This seems to be the prevailing conversation across the boards of liberal blogtopia. Over the past few days I've spent most of my time reading the various points of view on this.  So far I think everyone's made a good case for their arguments on both sides of the issue.

Personally, I would like to see a consensus reached (at least in principle) in order that we could move ahead. As one who has an unwavering belief that Internet activism (and activism as a whole) will become key to  the future of politics, and more importantly political change, I feel that the time is now to start organizing and harnessing this power.

We need to face one fact first before we can look to the future. This whole debate, although simmering for quite some time, came to a boil with Alito. But we must accept that we (and I speak here as the "collective" we, not individuals) dropped the ball early in the game, only to complain in the end that we lost. Although many were committed to the cause of stopping Alito early on, the vast majority of the blogosphere/internet (including some of its most prominent leaders/spokesmen) did not get fully behind the effort until the eleventh hour.  This to me speaks volumes about why, as a movement, we will remain ineffectual if we don't evolve and change our tactics.

I look at the organizing of grassroots movements on the right, and how a small minority has managed to gain control over all political discourse in this country, and contrast that with what has thus far been done on the left. The Dean movement taught us that there is a vast potential for fundraising and information dissemination. (as has Move On and other groups), but we have yet to figure out how to really put that power to practical use. To get people elected the kind of people who support our principles. Here is where the right has been effective ... they put "movement conservatives" in power and when they can't, they still force the centrists to shift right out of fear (Specter, need I say more) WE must do the same with "movement liberals".

But how?

I think the key here is picking the right battles, picking the right amount of them, and most importantly uniting everyone in a common cause.

If we could get organized enough to put ALL our resources ( time, money, communication and networking skills) behind a cadre of progressive primary candidates we might be able to put enough pressure on the system to accomplish our goals.

This could be important for two reasons .  First we would hopefully unseat those who do not support our goals the majority of the time. In other case we would be forcing those who waiver to think twice out of fear of future primary challenges. This is what has driven the right.

But it can only be done when you have been successful and so far we haven't been. Dean and, Hackett have made for great media, but in the end were not successful. WE need success.

We need leadership on this.

I realize that most of the blogmeisters shirk from this responsibility under the guise that the Internet should be leaderless, a free form of expression where anyone can rise up and take the lead.... But so far this has not happened, and I'm not sure it ever will. We have only months left before the mid-terms and we are still floundering around.

What I would like to see is:

* A general "call-out" from the blog leaders to all progressive candidates who wish to run. An organized campaign to have their voices heard by those of us who can help them. ( I like what I'm seeing with Ciro Rodriguez' from TX 28 over at dKos)

*The sites should then run polls, have debates and what-not to pick a specific number of candidates that we can support effectively and MASSIVELY

*The slate of candidates would then be decided upon by consensus of all of us. Then promoted across the Internet.

*Specific goals set for fund raising, petition signings, etc.

*In essence we run a third party ticket from within the party.

If we are successful, we then transfer our efforts to the general election, still concentrating on our slate candidates. In those cases where we have not been successful, then and only then do we support the other Dem candidate.

This kind of thing can only be done with some sort of leadership and commitment from those who control the front pages of community blogs or are large single author sites. I realize that the campaign finance laws and such would make this hard,... but if they could provided the "forum" for it to be done, than it would hopefully gain a life of it's own  and become a "movement" rather than an organized campaign. Hopefully down the road the larger "real" political entities like Move On and such would follow our lead.

This to me seems the best of both worlds ... an actual movement to change the party, while not abandoning it entirely to allow the Republics to fill the vacuum.

Sorry for the length of this


Migra Matters: progressive immigration reform

by Duke1676 (Duke1676@Yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 03:47:54 PM EST
* A general "call-out" from the blog leaders to all progressive candidates who wish to run. An organized campaign to have their voices heard by those of us who can help them.

The slate of candidates would then be decided upon by consensus of all of us. Then promoted across the Internet.

*In essence we run a third party ticket from within the party.

....In those cases where we have not been successful, then and only then do we support the other Dem candidate.

I really like these three specific items - as action items. In the local arena we can build our grassroots but we need leadership in the netroots. We do pretty well in consensus building once we've gotten started. What we are looking for is a way to get started and keep it going.

Perhaps one way to do this in leaderless environment is the way we are starting here. Not short one line comments as is normal in the blogosphere, but serious thoughtful ideas. Your comment is not too long - it is in keeping with the premise of these diaries. We need to keep one of these diaries going as a place to move the conversation forward. We also need to develop a method in the diaries for getting candidate information out to others.

*Supporting candidates - that was where my focus was intended. The major metropolitan areas have more manpower and money than the less populated areas. We need to find a way to tap into these resources and distribute them across the country.

Also having faith in the ability of our candidates to grow into the jobs that we elect them to. Years ago Barbara Boxer was a 'far left and strident' county supervisor. She made us all just a little nuts and got a reputation for taking on the Pentagon and their $500 hammers. But we stuck with her....and now she speaks for most of the Democrats that I know.

Locally, the complacency is gone. You mentioned rebuilding from within the party as a third party. This is beginning to happen in the heavily progressive counties now. Thus, the heated conversations with local party people.

Great ideas....let's expound on the strategies.

by SallyCat on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 04:05:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The major metropolitan areas have more manpower and money than the less populated areas. We need to find a way to tap into these resources and distribute them across the country.

This is exactly why if we could get this kind of thing going, it might be successful. I live in NY ... I would never had known about TX28 if not for Rodriguez' dKos diary and now I will do whatever I can to support him.

I'm sure there are many other great candidates we could get behind. ( Lamont)

We just need to organize

Migra Matters: progressive immigration reform

by Duke1676 (Duke1676@Yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 04:17:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Because of the blogs a lot of us sent money to Salazar in Colorado, Hackett in Ohio, and other places in 2004 and 2005. We did it to support the party candidates based on the idea that a moderate was better than a republican.

I'd like to see is a way for the blogs, or us a diarists, to keep a continuing list going of candidates that we can send support to this year. We are doing it a grassroots level here in Northern CA for selected congressional and local seats. Soon to be a separate diary. But we don't want to inundate areas with out of towners. We want to support the local teams.

I think what we are trying to do is a get list of ideas together so that we can, if necessary, band together in a leaderless environment on the blogs.

Your strategies are great - we need to fill in action items as to how to get there.

by SallyCat on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 04:25:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is essentially the same issue I was stressing in the first thread. The small groups that concentrate on specific issues are mostly already formed. They just need to be incorporated into a larger body for a louder voice. Instead of reinventing the wheel, it's more effective to round up all of the ones already rolling along.

by rumi on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 04:22:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We have splinter groups of splinter groups on the far left of progressive ideas here in my county.

How do we get these progressives to work as a single unit without getting stuck on single issues?

A lot of us got pissed when there were front page diaries at DailyKos telling us to stop being single issue focused. More in the way it was said than anything. But there is a point that we need to talk to each other about how each single issue adds to the whole?

These conversation diaries I think are part of that bridge building. I'm a pro-choice voter first and foremost, but if you can show me a moderate that is personally not pro-choice but won't overturn Roe v Wade, I'll help. Harry Reid is an example of that.

How do we bridge that gap?


by SallyCat on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 04:31:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't go over to kos so I'm not familiar with what's happening there.

  The 'single issue voter' approach is how the GOP had so many Christians and other religious voters somehow supporting a purely contradictory election platform...it works to get votes by harnessing the power of each vote.

  There has to be some compromise in order to achieve common goals. That's why I prefer the concept of active coalitions to achieve goals. Let the Greens be Green and the Democrats be Democrats while joining forces on the issues that affect both of them.

  For instance, mentioning my favorite newbie, Hackett. GOP pushed/favored legislation in Ohio to restrict voting was mentioned here and elsewhere several times but got little to no support. It's passed and it will hurt the Democrats in future elections. Why did that not become a cause for activism like the Alito fillibuster?

by rumi on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 04:44:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How do we bridge that gap?

  I think the best way is to focus on issues rather than candidates in the beginning. No one individual candidate will hold all of vast range of ideals found on the Liberal side. Focusing on the issues will help more people faster and a few victories will build strength. Later, when it's time to refine the field of candidates the choices will be more genuine for assessing intentions.

  The real power is when the candidates work to earn the representation of the people.

by rumi on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 05:04:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Limiting how much we try to accomplish at one time

I think the best way is to focus on issues rather than candidates in the beginning. No one individual candidate will hold all of vast range of ideals found on the Liberal side

I think you're wrong here. I think we should focus on specific candidates in specific races and try to create the biggest splah we can.

In order to satisfy the vast range of single issue and splinter groups the target should be large enough that all could agree (think Joe Lieberman.)

We also shouldn't expect to field a slate of 30,or even 20 candidates. Perhaps only 10 or 15 that can gain wide exposure. If we were to concentrate our resources on a few races we could then force those races to become high profile. I think that would then start to shift the paradigm towards a more progressive party.


Migra Matters: progressive immigration reform

by Duke1676 (Duke1676@Yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 05:25:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

  In doing that, how do we make progress on issues that demand attention now? I don't see any reason why some multitasking couldn't be done. I'm assuming that you're talking about fielding nonincumbent candidates to focus on. If that's true, those candidates would have little influence or effect until after an election.

I'm talking about making a difference with what we have now and finding the right candidates by basing it on what they can accomplish before the next election.

by rumi on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 05:33:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm assuming that you're talking about fielding nonincumbent candidates to focus on. If that's true, those candidates would have little influence or effect until after an election.

and

I'm talking about making a difference with what we have now and finding the right candidates by basing it on what they can accomplish before the next election.

I honestly don't have an answer to that. I'm not sure there is one. We've seen how little actual "real world" power we've been able to wield, especialy influencing voting behavior of our represenatives.

Perhaps the threat of our backing challengers to those who don't support us would help to force some of those who waiver from wandering to far off the farm. Here is where I really like the Leiberman/Lamont dynamic. If we were to thow so much support at Lamont to actually threaten to unseat Leiberman it would reverberate throughout the party. He's an easy target and represents everything wrong with that wing of the party.

And to actually defeat Leiberman ...would be a 10 on the richter scale.

But as you said ... for the here and now ... I'm not sure how much we can do. I could be very wrong on this though ...I just don't know
 

Migra Matters: progressive immigration reform

by Duke1676 (Duke1676@Yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 05:54:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

  I think we can make the best of both worlds merge to make a difference now and also have the candidates 'seasoned' for the next election.

  One factor we all agree on seems to be the idea that the reform will come from the voter up. To gain the support of so many diverse interests, it's important to represent them whenever possible. Gathering these forces now, on a regular basis, would build support for future needs, like elections. It would also bring an immediate influence by having a larger bloc of influence on each issue that's taken as a large group...essentially under the Dem party where incumbents now can make a difference. Forcing the national discussion on these issues will filter out present incumbents by the next election and/or effect the changes that are needed now. It will also allow the newcomers exposure and a chance to prove what they have before throwing any serious weight behind them.

by rumi on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 06:09:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think this is a great idea and that it would make a big splash to take out some of the worst, like Lieberman.

I'd also like each of us to think about local races where extra money might help. We have some races in the foothills and farm areas of California where the most spent is $20,000 for an entire campaign on both sides. Those congressional seats are held by Republicans currently.

In addition to national efforts local ideas:
Would an extra $1,000 help the local democrat?

Can we each donate 1 or 2 days in our own region (maybe a 3 hour drive each way) to help at local events?

We don't want to lose focus on the grassroots farm team.

by SallyCat on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 05:35:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If we could get "on the ground" information about local races that we could easily influence with support (money) from the greater blosophere that would be great.

Perhaps we could start some sort of commitees to expolore the local races in each of their areas.

When you speak of the "smaller" races these could be prime candidates for us to back.

Migra Matters: progressive immigration reform

by Duke1676 (Duke1676@Yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 06:00:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I mentioned elsewhere in the comments of each participating blog/site having a small space dedicated to networking the resources. A good example might be similar to the regional categories here and they could be also be set up for activity by interest, issue, activism alert, offers/needs...

  One of the blogospherists greates assets is finding critical information that doesn't apply to him/her/self but needs to be shared with the people it does affect. This would be another benefit.

  If this continues can we frog-hop to the end of the comments?

by rumi on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 07:09:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
has always had good coverage of local races and action on them.
The only problem I find with it is, like everything else in blogtopia, theres a lack of focus.
It's kind of like a buckshot approach, where they fire a wide burst in hopes of hitting something. I
f we could somehow join forces with them whereby they settle in on a few key races, we could concerntrate our effectiveness.

Migra Matters: progressive immigration reform

by Duke1676 (Duke1676@Yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 06:13:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I absolutely agree. I think that is why these diaries are helpful...we are thinking about each step along the way and logistics.

So...here is the question for the multiple blog participants:
Can we pull together a list of names and get information to focus on?

(a) nationally - for key seats either in the Senate - big impact seats.

(b) nationally - for key congressional districts

(c) at the state level - governors

(d) at the state and local level post primaries where they need help to swing state legislatures

I think a lot of us cross post enough it would work.
But are we willing to pose this question on other blogs where we are well known?

by SallyCat on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 06:27:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
of why we need coordination and (some sort of) leadership in the blog/internet world.

http://www.soapblox.net/myleftwing/showDiary.do?diaryId=5758

This just came up at MLW, I didn't research the candidate out fully, but from the diary he looks good... but most will never hear of this race because we're limited to small communities that don't coordinatate together.

There should be some sort of a summit of the blogtopia on this issue.

Migra Matters: progressive immigration reform

by Duke1676 (Duke1676@Yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 06:35:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

  This is getting back to the strength of what can work. I don't have all of the details but the plan is based on having a few representatives from each group communicating and essentially a chain of command, for lack of a better term, that works upward. Each participating blog/site/org/ or whatever, should have some small space dedicated for networking the groups' resources. The entire program can be open to some input so we can take advantage of looking out for each other but generally there should be designated spokes-people to maintain order.

by rumi on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 07:02:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
WOW

I am very definitely in the Novice part of this political stuff.

The Republican success did not come from just a small bunch of activated church groups. There was and is some big money moving everything. We have watched one distraction issue after another get people out to vote for candidates that I doubt really care much one way or the other about the distraction issue. What the candidates as elected officials then do is enact legislation that benefits the corporate supporters.

If corporate entities support candidates, is it possible to sway corporations or those who are threatened by large corporations to support progressive Dems?

Sort of corporate wars of a different kind.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. (George Carlin)

by tampopo on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 04:27:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The republicans have been able to finance distraction issues. I think your wrong about their base not caring about the issue, on the contrary I think the big money looks for the issue that can rile up enough support (gay marriage, abortion, etc.) THEN puts it's money behind it. This allows them to take an issue that had limited support and turn it into a Republican consensus position. That's the whole premise of their "movement conservatives" strategy. For example, lets look at "anti gay marriage". This was a pretty much "off the radar" issue, only supported by the far right. But those who did support it did so vehemently. The Republicans knew this so they put tons of money behind the campaign, ran candidates that played lip service to it, then it became a major talking point in their "values" campaign.

As to our ability to finacialy counter them, I think we've seen that we can raise money. Dean has done a great job at that,  plus we have the whole PAC.521,527 thing going for us.

The problem is that thus far that money has not filtered down to the grassroots progressives. ( especially those who might challenge incumbents). Here is where we can help. If we can help these campaigns in their infacncy, when they are most vulnerable, then possibly they can succeed to move on to the next level where the money really is.

Migra Matters: progressive immigration reform

by Duke1676 (Duke1676@Yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 04:55:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess my sentence didn't come across clearly - the base cares very much about the distraction issue - it is the candidate that I doubt cares very much.

My thought on corporate involvement is not exactly just a money issue. Watching one corporation join with another and together swallow other corporations is scary. We have a media now owned by something like 5 corporations. And how many oil corporations now? As they have swallowed and swelled, they have grown ever more powerful.

Is there a way to tap into the corporate world to build on the Buy Blue group?

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. (George Carlin)

by tampopo on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 05:17:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Let's do some coordination on a separate diary for the corporate money. If you want to email we can put our heads together on buyblue.org and a diary there. Corporate money and media distraction is a complete series in and of itself.

I'd like to direct the topic to the ideas of listing strategies and whether we as a group think they are viable.

We have several strategies for discussion here already...including
 - identifying candidates in the primary,
 - identifying sources of money
 - identifying sources of manpower
 - working at directing money to specific candidates,
 - supporting democrat candidates
   see comment upthread on little d vs big D democrats
 - supporting the Democrat candidate once the primaries are over
 - defining what we are 'for' instead of against

We want our party back supporting our ideals not the status quo.

by SallyCat on Fri Feb 3rd, 2006 at 05:26:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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