Booman Tribune ~ Comments ~ Libby on Leaks: Cheney Made Me Do It

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Libby on Leaks: Cheney Made Me Do It | 25 comments (25 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

This sounds like wonderful news. (none / 1)

Or should I take off my rose-colored lenses? Does that mean Dick could be indicted, finally?

There are LIVES in the balance. Click here. Watch. Listen.

by cotterperson on Thu Feb 9th, 2006 at 03:08:54 PM EST

Re: This sounds like wonderful news. (none / 0)

I don't think you can indict a sitting Vice president, but it sure exposes him to indictment after his term is over, and impeachment proceedings in the House, should the Dems successfully regain control there this fall.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

by Steven D on Thu Feb 9th, 2006 at 03:10:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This sounds like wonderful news. (none / 0)

I don't think that's ever been decided by the courts. As I recall there was a theory (I think it was Robert Bork's theory) that a sitting vice-president could be indicted but not a sitting president. But in any event I don't believe it has ever been tested.

No one wanted to test the case with Agnew so they negotiated a deal where he resigned and was indicted.

I bet Cheney wouldn't agree to resign rather than be a test case. I bet Cheney would love to be a test case.

by maryb2004 on Thu Feb 9th, 2006 at 03:48:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This sounds like wonderful news. (none / 0)

I think Dick-I'm-the-power-Cheney, would stand firm for a test case because HE IS the president. He does have buddy Scalia, Scalito, Thomas and Roberts on the bench.

Dear Fitz,

Do you know what we'd like for Valentine's Day. It's soon. Hold the diamonds and give us some indictments.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Thu Feb 9th, 2006 at 06:01:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This sounds like wonderful news. (none / 1)

Indictments would certainly be cheaper for him than diamonds for all of us. And, really, I'm too young for diamonds.

by maryb2004 on Thu Feb 9th, 2006 at 08:00:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This sounds like wonderful news. (none / 0)

well, how young are you?

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Thu Feb 9th, 2006 at 08:20:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This sounds like wonderful news. (none / 1)

45. According to my mother, only women over 65 look good in diamonds (she has ulterior motives).

I'd rather have the indictment anyway.

Because I believe in doing what's best for society.

And I want world peace.

Not the tiara, no sir, no interest in the tiara.

by maryb2004 on Thu Feb 9th, 2006 at 08:25:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This sounds like wonderful news. (none / 0)

I think Agnew was close to being indicted before he resigned, so I don't think it is unthinkable to indict a sitting VP.

I thought his title was president of the United States, not of Iraq. -- Patrick Maunder, Seattle

by mlk19569 (mlk19569nospam@comcast.net) on Thu Feb 9th, 2006 at 03:49:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This sounds like wonderful news. (none / 0)

The meat and potatoes of the article reveal that the strategy of defense is 'greymail'.

It works like this:

Libby's lawyers insist that he cannot defend himself unless he has access to classified documents. Then the government refuses to declassify the documents. Then, either the judge determines that Libby cannot get a fair trial, or the prosecutor gives up and drops the charges.

Adding to the angst, it appears Abu Gonzales is the person who will have final say on what can and cannot be declassified.

If Fitz can get past that obstacle, then Libby might feel like he is facing a real prospect of hard time and Cheney could come under scrutiny. But by that time we will be in control of Congress and will have to decide whether to do the investigations that will drum this administration out of office or let it lie until 2008.

by BooMan on Thu Feb 9th, 2006 at 03:17:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This sounds like wonderful news. (none / 0)

Boo, I'm not sure that the Nuremberg defense is one that will fly in this case. First, Libby is charged with perjury and obstruction of justice. He is not presently indicted for leaking Valerie Wilson's identity. Whether classified documents show that he was authorized to leak classified information unrelated to Plame/Wilson doesn't seem to me to be relevant to the charges against him.

Further, even if he was charged with leaking, a crime is a crime. The fact that your boss tells you to commit the crime is equally ireelevant, in my view, and I suspect in the ultimate view of the court in this case. Of course, I haven't read the briefs in question on this point but using this as the basis of your defense seems very shaky to me.

What I perceive Libby doing is stalling for time. I'm sure that whatever decision is made by the trial court he will seek an immediate appeal, hoping to delay his trial. He is also perhaps trying to put pressure on Cheney, but I doubt that. I suspect this defense has already been vetted by the Veep.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

by Steven D on Thu Feb 9th, 2006 at 03:37:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Stalling for time" (none / 0)

That was my first thought and would fit with the pattern of Libby's post-election trial date. Here's the graf Booman summarized for us.

Is it possible that a prosecution of Libby might be impeded or even derailed entirely by the refusal of the Bush White House or its Justice Department to declassify information that might be necessary to try Libby? "Under the current statute, it may well be the attorney general's call-or whomever he designates-to ultimately decide what should be declassified, and what might not be, in the Libby case," said Michael Bromwich, a former associate Iran-Contra independent counsel and a former Justice Department inspector general.

Can the prosecution beat these things?

There are LIVES in the balance. Click here. Watch. Listen.

by cotterperson on Thu Feb 9th, 2006 at 03:45:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This sounds like wonderful news. (none / 0)

I agree with almost all of that Steve.

The greymail strategy is designed to avoid the case going forward at all. The prospects of derailing the case over access to classified material that would presumably show how busy he was are not good.

He apparently took scrupulous notes, and he has an office manager, and a calendar. It should be easy to reconstruct his days and show how busy he was without the need for PDB's or anything else.

But he has good lawyers and allies in the Justice Department and in the WH. So who knows?

by BooMan on Thu Feb 9th, 2006 at 03:47:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This sounds like wonderful news. (none / 1)

Somewhere I read that he took many notes but has very bad handwriting that he claims even he can't read.

More stalling.

by maryb2004 on Thu Feb 9th, 2006 at 03:55:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This sounds like wonderful news. (none / 1)

I love that excuse...

Why the hell would he be taking notes if he couldn't read them later? Oh pulheeze...

I thought his title was president of the United States, not of Iraq. -- Patrick Maunder, Seattle

by mlk19569 (mlk19569nospam@comcast.net) on Thu Feb 9th, 2006 at 03:58:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

first . . . (none / 0)

Libby needs to be able to convince a judge that the PDB's are essential to his defense. Reggie Walton presided over the Hatfill case (sueing the Bush admin for using media leaks to destroy him - the anthrax 'suspect') & gave him wide latitude in discovery to classified materials. That might not bode well, but Libby still will have to show that the PDB's have some relevance as to whether or not he lied & obstructed. While he's entitled to try out the 'I'm such a busy guy' defense on a jury, there will be limits as to what he gets in discovery.

It's also not clear wheter or not Gonzo's recusal will apply to declassification (it should!) or if Fitzgerald supervisor, David Margolis, would make that decision.

Check out this passage from an article on Walton in the SF Daily Jurnal (Dec 20, 2005):

In denying the government's motion to dismiss Hatfill's claims earlier this year, Walton pointed a finger at the government attorney and said that leaks by government officials undermined "what this country is supposed to be about -- that we treat people fairly."
Walton's voice then grew louder as he said: If you don't have enough to indict this man, then it's wrong to drag his name through the mud. That's not a government I want to be a part of. It's wrong, and you all need to do something about it."

Walton ordered Ashcroft to be deposed last month, which "guarantees that, should the Hatfill case go to trial, Ashcroft will have to testify."

How do you suppose Judge Walton feels about obstructing an investigation into government leaks intended to drag someone's name through the mud? by lying about it?

". . . the more educated you are, the more indoctrinated you are. After all, propaganda is largely directed towards the privileged." -Noam Chomsky

by Arcturus on Thu Feb 9th, 2006 at 05:45:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Libby on Leaks: Cheney Made Me Do It | 25 comments (25 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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