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Nothing to do With the Number Three | 18 comments (18 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Nothing to do With the Number Three (none / 1)

I hate to say this, but the 4th has been controversial for decades. It's been toast since the drug war at least. But it's really good to be reminded, and that panda is adorable!

Be Unbossed!

by Izzy (izzy AT unbossed DOT com) on Fri Mar 24th, 2006 at 02:27:25 AM EST

Re: Nothing to do With the Number Three (4.00 / 2)

That's true. And one reason for the controversies is that the persons with the most pressing interest in seeing the fourth amendment enforced and the time and inclination to fight the cases all the way up to the supreme court are usually convicted criminals who want their sentences overturned. So the law is full of cases in which the defendants are not sympathetic characters.

Cute panda

by maryb2004 on Fri Mar 24th, 2006 at 02:32:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing to do With the Number Three (none / 1)

Yeah, that's the slippery slope alright. It's okay when it's just a bunch of junkies. Now it's almost anyone.

Be Unbossed!

by Izzy (izzy AT unbossed DOT com) on Fri Mar 24th, 2006 at 02:38:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing to do With the Number Three (4.00 / 2)

So true. For some reason, I can never seem to remember the drug wars in any sort of a reasonable and coherent fashion. I'm going to correct the post a little to point out that this isn't as new as I implied. I recall reading about a wonderful blow up between Bill Clinton and Hunter Thompson in '92 on the very issue. Hunter walked away quite depressed. Thanks for the correction Izzy.

by Chris on Fri Mar 24th, 2006 at 02:37:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing to do With the Number Three (none / 0)

Oh, no need for a correction! Just one of my pet subjects. I'm happy that most Americans believe in the 4th amendment and think it's been sacred all this time. I think that just may be our redemption (I hope).

Be Unbossed!

by Izzy (izzy AT unbossed DOT com) on Fri Mar 24th, 2006 at 02:40:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing to do With the Number Three (none / 0)

Oh, and HST was the best. Bless him.

Be Unbossed!

by Izzy (izzy AT unbossed DOT com) on Fri Mar 24th, 2006 at 02:41:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A very excellent example (none / 1)

of the saying, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

The Fourth Amendment is probably the least understood section of the Bill of Rights by the general public. So when violations occur, whether its an illegal search/seizure, drug-sniffing dogs in the schools, illegal wiretapping, or even some of the aspects of the Patriot Act, people shrug them off, figuring that "Hey, if you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about." But "doing something wrong" is very relative. Take random drug testing for example -- the spouse is subject to it as a public transit operator. While he's a good boy and doesn't do drugs (we've even really cut back on our alcohol consumption, mainly because we don't need the empty calories), there's always that chance that some legal medication he's taking could produce a false positive, and the costs of fighting that result could be devastating financially and emotionally. Yes, the intentions are good...I ride public transit and don't want impaired operators, but it's not just drugs that can make an unsafe driver -- the spouse is taking a sick day because he was ill and didn't think he'd be able to safely operate his bus. What's next, random testing to make sure drivers are getting enough sleep?

I'm encouraged by the poll numbers saying that Americans are mostly displeased with Bush's warrantless surveillance programs -- most of the time, if a program is couched in "public safety" or "national security" terms, people will accept it without question. But maybe folks are starting to wake up and realize we're on that "slippery slope", and if we don't put on some sort of brakes here, we're going to end up where we don't want to be.

"Who does the President think he's f-in' kidding?" -- Keith Olbermann, 3/20/06

by Cali Scribe on Fri Mar 24th, 2006 at 07:56:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A very excellent example (none / 1)

You all make great points. It seems to me, though, that the Bill of Rights was designed to protect society's least sympathetic. The first amendment is the same. If we don't support these rights across the board, we could find ourselves branded as among the least sympathetic.

As far as drug testing, yeah, legal medications can mess things up. I have a friend, a doctor for a major corporation, who saved a guy from getting fired after a positive drug test. Seems his wife had baked him a poppy seed cake for his birthday and the opiates showed up in his urine. Thank goodness, the doc did some follow up.

If you want things to get better, be prepared to deal with change.

by Kahli on Fri Mar 24th, 2006 at 08:21:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hell, (none / 0)

I won't even let the spouse get poppyseed bagels for that very reason...

And you're right that the Fourth protects the "least sympathetic" -- that's why I said that most average Americans shrug off what could be perceived as minor violations of it, especially in the name of "public safety."

"Who does the President think he's f-in' kidding?" -- Keith Olbermann, 3/20/06

by Cali Scribe on Fri Mar 24th, 2006 at 08:42:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing to do With the Number Three (none / 0)

Wow. Thanks for the excellent update, Chris. You really hit the nail on the head.

Be Unbossed!

by Izzy (izzy AT unbossed DOT com) on Fri Mar 24th, 2006 at 03:54:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

can never seem to remember the drug wars (none / 1)

For some reason, I can never seem to remember the drug wars in any sort of a reasonable and coherent fashion.

That may be because they were never coherent or reasonable.

The foremost target of the Drug War was always the Fourth Amendment. Catching dealers and seizing contraband was very secondary.

Getting a warrant has always been easy. The problem is the cops have to say what they are looking for. They would rather fish at random.

by Gaianne on Fri Mar 24th, 2006 at 06:35:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nothing to do With the Number Three | 18 comments (18 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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