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Find textbooks at Alibris!

NOTE: Overstock bests Amazon's prices and is "blue."

THE BOOKS WITH "BUZZ":
______________

Learn the real story behind the WMD in Iraq:

The Way of the World: A Story of Truth and Hope in an Age of Extremism
by Ron Suskind

Read Barack Obama's vision for America:

The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream
by Barack Obama

DaveW recommends:

I Am a Strange Loop
by Douglas Hofstadter

Need some laughs?

I Am America (and So Can You!)
by Stephen Colbert

rae recommends:

Dark Ages America: The Final Phase of Empire
by Morris Berman.

On BooMan’s shelf:

The End of Iraq: How American Incompetence Created a War Without End
by Peter W. Galbraith

This looks interesting:

Adventure Divas
by Holly Morris

Here’s a good one from
Elizabeth Gilbert:

Eat Pray Love
by Elizabeth Gilbert

"Crash" * Best Motion Picture, Academy Awards * Only $11.79 at Overstock * 2006 SAG Winner, Best Ensemble

Check out
Powell's new section:
NEW FAVORITES

Selected new arrivals at 30% off

Recommended by Indianadem and ejmw:
The Conscience of a Liberal
by Paul Wellstone

From northcountry’s bookshelf:

The New Golden Age:
The Coming Revolution Against
Political Corruption and Economic Chaos
by Ravi Batra

A novel about contractors in Iraq from the woman that runs The Spy That Billed Me:

Outsourced: A Novel
from RJ Hillhouse.


SOTW-120x90
Download Sleeper Cell on iTunes (Better than "24") Download Weeds on iTunes (Hilarious 1/2-hour adult comedy starring Mary-Louise Parker) Download Late Nite with Conan O'Brien on iTunes
John Belushi - SNL
Download South Park on iTunes
Verve Vault

James Hunter - People Gonna Talk:
James Hunter - People Gonna Talk
icon


Great Deals
----- * ^ * -----

Find mystery novels by Nancy Pickard ("Kansas")



Challenging Empire: How People, Governments, and the UN Defy US Power by Phyllis Bennis (interviewed on DN!)


Featured by Keith Olbermann, New (Powell's Sale): Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower by William Blum (whose other books merit serious consideration)


"Explosive" State of War: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration
by James Risen


The book the CIA doesn't want you to read: Jawbreaker: The Attack on Bin Laden and Al Qaeda: A Personal Account by the CIA's Key Field Commander
Larry Johnson's review


BT's all-time best seller:

PERMACULTURE:
A Designers' Manual

$79.95 * Sale: $59.95


Unequal Sisters: A Multicultural Reader in U.S. Women's History (Third Edition)


The Undercover Economist: Exposing Why the Rich Are Rich, the Poor Are Poor And Why You Can Never Buy a Decent Used Car!


The Worst Hard Time: The Untold Story of Those Who Survived the Great American Dust Bowl
by Timothy Egan


Green Press Initiative
----- * ^ * -----


Journalistas: 100 Years of the Best Writing and Reporting by Women Journalists by Eleanor Mills * NYT review


Bury Me Standing: the Gypsies & Their Journey


1491: New Revelations of the Americas before Columbus



Brokeback Mountain
by Annie Proulx
----- * ^ * -----
Check out Powell's
"At The Movies"


Imperial Ambitions: Conversations on the Post-9/11 World by Noam Chomsky (Power & Terror: Post 9-11 Talks)


The Price of Privilege:

How Parental Pressure and
Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of
Disconnected and Unhappy Kids

by Madeline Levine


Save 35-70% on
name brand clothing,
footwear, and outdoor gear
at SierraTradingPost.com

:





We listened to PEN American Center's "State of Emergency" and found 1940s books by Curzio Malaparte only at Alibris. (Selection (MP3) excerpted from "The Skin.")

Alibris - Books You Thought You'd Never Find
Banned Books * Are you a fan of Film Noir, Art House, Documentaries or Hong Kong Action? * Searching for a long-lost children's book or a first printing of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue on vinyl? Find it at Alibris!

:
:
www.Patagonia.com


Display:
I don't agree with your analysis.

Hiroshima: I will agree that there is something special about nuclear weapons that makes them more morally contemptible than the mere amount of life they take.  But bombing Hiroshima cost less lives than an invasion of Japan would have cost.  We could have a debate over whether Japan could have been convinced to surrender through a demonstation on some atoll somewhere, or whether it was necessary to drop another bomb on Nagasaki.  But, if you are judging savagery, this is a poor example.

Operation Condor: this was not really an American operation.  It was a proxy operation that was certainly supported by Kissinger...but it still is misleading in the way you portray it.

Operation Phoenix: this operation is an example of the kind of warfare we no longer have the stomach for.  

East Timor: again, this was not an American operation.  It was indisputably one of worst moral failings as a nation.  But it has virtually no applicability to the question at hand, which is how much violence we are willing to directly carry out using our troops to subdue an insurgency.  

I am as critical of our Cold War policy as anyone, but I don't think your points are relevent to this argument.  

Could Iraq be subdued?  Indisputably the answer is yes.  You raise a good point about Saddam having advantages because his constituency was native to Iraq.  But subduing Iraq is still just a matter of developing a police state that is ruthless enough to prevent any resistance.  It is the fact that America is not willing to act like Saddam that makes the effort to subdue Iraq hopeless.  And it is our unwillingness to ally ourselves with these tactics that make it impossible for us to support some faction in Iraq that can do the job for us.

All this talk of democracy and an unity government is hopelessly unrealistic.  We are learning that now as we watch the Shiite government develop death squads and torture chambers.  

The whole effort isn't doomed militarily, it is doomed morally.

by BooMan on Fri Apr 14th, 2006 at 02:04:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would like to point this out regarding operation condor: the US provided communications for the coordination of Operation Condor, from the Southern Command in Panama.

Not only did some CIA agents brag about participating in the bombing of Embassy Row in 1976, but another former CIA agent, Michael Townsley was convicted for his participation in it and later given witness protection here in the US.

But, the most interesting thing to me is Manuel Contreras, who materminded that bombing has accused Bush and the CIA three times of its roll in that bombing. Once before he was tried, once while he was serving his seven years  sentence, and most important, when he was finally released from jail. However the most curious thing of all is that although the bombing did occur in US territory, This country allowed Contrera's trial to occur in chile ( a blatant abdication of US legal sovereignty). Had Contreras been tried here in the US, he would have certainly been facing either death penalty (although highly unlikely since chile would have never allow this to happen since there was no legal death penalty in Chile) or life in prison. If this would have occured, I have no doubt that contreras would have spilled his guts to work out some deal with us prosecutors.

Also I would like to point out that the US did have some vital interests in Chile. This little country has one of the most important copper mines in the world. At the time, most telecommunications did depend on it. Secondly, you have to take into account the geo-political situation at the time: most latinamerica has not only going left, but they were doing so  in a revolutionary way, and also nationalizing all important industries and companies.And, when they did not nationalize them they were preventing these foreign companies to take their capital away from these countries

by cruz del sur (nicodk@sbcglobal.net) on Fri Apr 14th, 2006 at 02:48:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One can argue the examples. It's now documented that the atomic bombs were not necessary to defeat the Japanese. They knew they were defeated & diplomatic approaches were ignored It was a deliberate display of military power to the Russians (as well as beating them to the victory punch).

The other examples were all deliberate US foreign policy carried out by client states & designed to further identifiable US interests. East Timor & Operation Condor would not have been possible without US support & $$$. They are far from irrelevant.

Operation Phoenix (& its offspring, the Salvador Option) are the template for counter-insurgency today in Iraq. It doesn't work, no matter how violent & repressive. Still it was our Plan B once Chalabi didn't work out. It must take some powerful kool-aid to believe that those Shiite torture centers & death squads came into existence without US knowledge, approval & support. The reason we're no longer fully supporting them isn't any moral squeamishness over the violence; it's because we realized it would hand the country over to Iran's allies if it continued to 'success.'

But rather than argue examples, try this out:

For every example of Hussein's atrocities, one can find US examples that exceed it. Weapons of Mass Destruction? Check. State-sponsored terrorism? Mining Nicaraguan harbors - Check. Wars of agreession? Check. Biological weapons on its own citizens? Depends on whether one considers Native Americans in the 18th & 19th C to be "citizens." Medical experiments on its own citizens? Check. Where exactly does Hussein have any claim to greater ruthlessness?

The argument you are pushing here is morally bankrupt.

A counter-example to my argument (of impossibility), though, might be Tibet.

". . . the more educated you are, the more indoctrinated you are. After all, propaganda is largely directed towards the privileged." -Noam Chomsky

by Arcturus on Fri Apr 14th, 2006 at 03:24:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
this is dangerous and misleading rhetoric.

You should not bring 18th and 19th century morality into 20th and 21st century debates.  In today's world most of founding fathers would be considered monsters.  In fact, they were some of the most enlightened people the world has seen.  

What are the terms of the debate here?  Are you suggesting that there is no qualitative difference between life in America and life in a Stalinist inspired Iraq?  Are you suggesting that life has not been better for those that fell into the American orbit, rather than the Soviet orbit?

I don't think that is your point.  It seems your point involves America's treatment and policies toward the third world throughout the Cold War, and how our policies had devastating consequences for many peoples.  On that we could agree.

But that has almost nothing to do with what this country is willing and capable of doing to put down the insurgency in Iraq using our own troops.

We have seen Bush take several steps beyond where America thought we would go: blowing of the Geneva conventions, using torture, denying American citizens habeas corpus, utilizing domestic surveillance, leveling Falluja...

But there are limits.  There are limits that Saddam did not suffer from.  Those limits are not military limits, they are moral limits.

Some of the moral limits are reflected in the flawed case for war.  America did not spend too much time naval gazing over the bombing of Dresden because there was a total consensus that the Nazis needed to be defeated.  If the war had been a little optional sideshow, people would have howled at such cruelty.  If you not engaged in a moral effort, even the smallest amount of violence is impossible to justify or rationalize.  So, that creates the biggest obstacle to subduing the insurgency.  But, there is also the matter of the intrinsic difficulty of such operations.  And we simply do not have the national will to overlook our moral scruples and commit to the level of repression and violence that would be needed to create 'stability' in Iraq.  

And, as I said earlier, that is a very fortunate thing.  Because that is ultimately why we will leave Iraq.  

by BooMan on Fri Apr 14th, 2006 at 03:46:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My point's a simple one: anything Hussein did, we've done better -- sometime, somewhere.

I refuse to find any moral distinction between doing something to one's own population or doing to others. History does not show that there are moral limits Hussein crossed that we've.

The 19th C was but one example. It's a part of us, a  part of our history.

Asis the US giving Hussein targeting intelligence when we knew he was using chemical weapons against the Iranians.

Torture isn't a Bush invention. Acknowledging it is. As Alfred McCoy has documented, what we see at Guantanomo & Abu Ghraib has its roots in experiments on American citizens.

If there were a military solution possible in Iraq that would result in an acceptable (to us) political environment, I have no doubt the American public would swallow whatever level of violence was necessary. It wouldbe a grave mistake to believe that the American public wouldn't accept nuking an Iraqi city if they could be persuaded that it would end the war & kill all the 'terr'ists.' The public isn't too upset about Falluja; they're upset about American casualties & shifting rationales for the war that diminish their sense of righteousness. Otherwise, everyone loves a winner.

The dangerous rhetoric is the claim that there is a military solution or victory possible in fighting a native resistance movement. As I noted below, that seems to come down to a matter of belief.

". . . the more educated you are, the more indoctrinated you are. After all, propaganda is largely directed towards the privileged." -Noam Chomsky

by Arcturus on Fri Apr 14th, 2006 at 04:25:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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