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Fascism and My Brother | 20 comments (20 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: I have had arguments like that (4.00 / 3)

You could do two things: Ask him to write down what he believes the defining characteristics of fascism are. And ask him who in history he sees as being the greatest examples of fascism.

If he identifies Mussolini, there may be some basis to hope he'll read what Mussolini said. If he mentions, say, George McGovern, well - you know that you cannot go any further.

I think the one hope is to get past the point of labeling "your a fascist" - "no, YOU'RE a fascist", or arguing over who/where provides the gold standard definition of fascism. That won't do anything. However, you might be able to converse on what you agree should or should not be the role of government. Or at least begin to parse honest disagreements, explained without name-calling.

by Kidspeak on Sun Jul 2nd, 2006 at 11:49:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have had arguments like that (4.00 / 3)

I think you are right... an honest discussion necessarily requires that you don't call names. I also think that is one reason that the right does so much name calling: they don't want an honest discussion. My brother's use of the word fascism so stunned me that it took me quite a while to recover, and by then he had managed to articulate his nonsense about needing to combat the liberal media group-think and move on to something else. Even now, we are discussing what is or isn't fascism instead of focusing on the problem at hand, which was all the illegal things BushCo has done. So his use of the inflammatory was successful in derailing the conversation.

But, it is also true that any productive discussion has to have an agreed upon vocabulary. So it is necessary, in that regard, to set the record straight on what fascism is or is not. If his frame of reference is so topsy-turvy, then no honest discourse will be possible.

I also think there is a difference between him saying I am on the edge of fascism, and me saying the president is a fascist. He called me a name, I called his party leadership a name. Again, this is my brother. We love and respect each other, so name calling is extremely rare.

We have done tons of emailing/discussing on things like the appropriate role of government, or the optimal tax levels to stimulate the economy. I don't often diary about those other discussions because they don't tend to go anywhere and don't have that one seminal moment, that shock value, that brings things into sharp relief the way this one did with him calling me a near-fascist.

In the end, I am just really bad at letting go when someone strikes a personal nerve with me. So I had to respond for my own piece of mind, or I would not be able to sleep.

_________________________

Check out My Voice Acting Page.

by mrboma on Mon Jul 3rd, 2006 at 03:04:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have had arguments like that (none / 1)

I know what you mean. It is really hard when it is your family member. I have a brother a little like that, and a cousin who is very much that way. I can deal with non-family pretty reasonably much easier than family members. It is easy to upset each other, and very very hard for anyone to admit that they were wrong about anything.

by Kidspeak on Tue Jul 4th, 2006 at 08:32:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have had arguments like that (4.00 / 2)

And there we get into a problem, that sounds too much like homework. Very few people can do something like that off the top of their head, most personal opinions are based on snap judgement rather than logic and can't be explained or justified easily.

I have degrees in political science, history and law, and still read books on all 3 subjects. Republicans who know this avoid talking politics with me because they don't want to feel like an idiot. Yet, in true conservative fashion, the fact that I can back up my opinions with boatloads of historical examples and they can't doesn't stop them from thinking that I'm the loon. Whatever Rush says must be true, personal observation and reasoning be damned.

by Shalimar (srbaxley@yahoo.com) on Mon Jul 3rd, 2006 at 07:46:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"...reasoning be damned" is about it. (none / 1)

In recent weeks, I've come to the conclusion the Rs look at being Republican and supporting this administration purely in the form of belief, as believing in Republicanism.

During MN's Republican convention, NPR was interviewing an attendee. Several times in the brief interview she used the phrase " I believe...".

As I considered this perspective, that they relate to their politics as they do to their religion, it seems to explain the phenomenon to me.

'Cause if one's politics is like one's religion, then all you have to do is believe, and never mind how you got to that point. One's mind is made up.

The alternative with which we are more familiar involves; facts, logic, and conclusions, and then choice of political affiliations. I've never heard anyone I know talk about "beliefs" in expressing their opinions on or support of a particular political party.

Nonviolent Action information available here

by NorthDakotaDemocrat (NorthDakotaDemocrat at g mail dot com) on Tue Jul 4th, 2006 at 04:15:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

President "Koresh" ? (none / 0)

I think you have a very important, key insight, there!

Republicans today think and behave as though part of a charismatic religious cult; there have been White House staff who have described the attitudes of those in the White House as being like cult-group members.

Maybe we've got "David Koresh" on a grand scale.

Now there is a scary thought!

by proximity1 on Wed Jul 5th, 2006 at 12:23:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fascism and My Brother | 20 comments (20 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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