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Revenge of the Clenis | 19 comments (19 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Revenge of the Clenis (none / 1)

The real issue, which seems to be touched on to me is that this dual presidency team has already had their two terms. Although it is not unconstitutional, it does INHO violate the two term tradition.

I think that the two strongest arguments for Hilary's candidacy are also the two strongest reasons against it. Her experience in the White House and that Democrats like Bill. If Hilary was not running on her experience as first spouse, or if Bill's endorsement was less prominent it would be less of an issue.

The issue is, are we as a nation comfortable with the spouse of a president becoming president. This is a real issue to me, and it is more of an issue because they promise a co-presidency. I do not think that America has had a good track record when we keep the presidency within the family, and that is made worse by the fact that the current president won primarily because of a presidential father.

America should have a very real conversation about what this means to our democracy. Let us talk about that. I think that is it is a dramatic symptom of the decay of our democratic traditions.

My job is not to represent Washington to you, but to represent you to Washington- Obama
Philly for Obama

by Luam (LuamDK at gmail.com) on Thu Nov 15th, 2007 at 01:05:29 PM EST

Re: Revenge of the Clenis (none / 0)

you're drifting into high wankery with this position.

by BooMan on Thu Nov 15th, 2007 at 01:40:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Revenge of the Clenis (none / 1)

No way, dude. Luam has a point. In most societies throughout history, legitimacy of leadership has been determined by blood relationship to prior leaders. I'm not sure why this is the case--it may have to do with the existence of hierarchies among families in our ancestors (including nonhuman ancestors, who seem to have such hierarchies). In any case, the idea that legitimate leadership can be conferred by elections irrespective of your family background is a new one in human history, and probably more fragile than you might think. We should be vigilant that we do not give it up.

by rae on Thu Nov 15th, 2007 at 01:51:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Revenge of the Clenis (none / 0)

see my other comment.

It's an insult to Hillary Clinton to suggest that she relies on her name for credibility. Nothing in her biography suggests that.

In the abstract, it's true that a pattern of switching between just two families for our leadership could become a problem. The obvious example is our current idiot king. But it's just wankery to lay that rap on Hillary Clinton.

by BooMan on Thu Nov 15th, 2007 at 02:02:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Revenge of the Clenis (none / 0)

My complaint is more general and it isn't about fearing that incompetent people will be elected to the presidency. My concern is long standing and is actually more germane because of her competency. The Clintons have been incredibly competent at acquiring power particularly within our party for them and theirs and I think that they will continue to do so for as long as they can.

This isn't evil, this is how power works and how politics works. It was his contribution to preventing this type of thing in our history that makes George Washington such a great president and great man.

This is the one objection to Hilary Clinton that I know for certain I hold independent of any allegiance to another candidate or another objection to her as a candidate. It is something I have felt strongly since I first heard rumors that she might run in 2008 well before anyone I liked had declared.

It is something that I think is a black mark on FDRs otherwise great record of accomplishment and leadership in our country. It is something which made me reluctant to support Jack Carter's run for the Senate last year and would lead me to oppose him if he ran for the Presidency. It is a standard I would apply to myself if my (hypothetical)wife, parents, brother or first cousins were to have held the presidency for more than one term.

My job is not to represent Washington to you, but to represent you to Washington- Obama
Philly for Obama

by Luam (LuamDK at gmail.com) on Thu Nov 15th, 2007 at 03:55:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You want wankery? (none / 0)

If I really wanted to be a wanker I would claim that the 22nd amendment prohibition of anyone who has acted as president for more than term shall serve as presidents more than once applies to Hilary. Since she and Bill were co-presidents twice and intend to be again they are violating the constitution by running. That is a decently wanktanstic comment.

I don't claim that. As amusing an insult as wanking is, I do not think that my concerns can be so easily dismissed.

My job is not to represent Washington to you, but to represent you to Washington- Obama
Philly for Obama

by Luam (LuamDK at gmail.com) on Thu Nov 15th, 2007 at 03:39:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Revenge of the Clenis | 19 comments (19 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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