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Display:
But I also want to add a slight reproach to the lecturing tone. Many Americans, and most here, are already aware of your revelation.

I've been saying for years that Gore is my favorite candidate. He is the real president. He is a genuinely great man. He has an amazing shot at winning both an Oscar and a NOBEL PEACE PRIZE in this same year. The whole world is turning to him for relief from the current dictatorship. I hope he wins both awards and announces for president.  I think he will win.

by Arminius on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 04:23:11 AM EST
Thanks for the rec, but I don't see the 'revelations' as you have on this site today. so my tone may be lecturing because it's so damn pathetic that the FP is all about MCat and a non-outing.

I really don't care if it's rec'd or not. I don't expect many of my diaries to be so from here on out. Not a big deal. But it is news and presented as I feel appropriate at this moment in time, on this site.

Your second para I absolutely agree with.

by spiderleaf (spiderleaf at gmail dot com) on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 04:30:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
.
Sure you do, this site is meant to be about caring and we care about one another. Always enjoy your rivals, rants and contribution.

Ehh ... take care spiderleaf.

"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."

▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY

by Oui on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 07:05:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, cool, I was just about to ask what this site is all about!

I guess I'll need to stick around a bit to see that "its all about caring and caring for each other" part?
;)

by bogo bear on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 11:10:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
.
Lavish yourself at the frog pond and enjoy the flower shower. Many aeons ago, there was always a Welcome Wagon for all newcomers.

Some of the old-timers do get a bit rusty and cranky, that's where the young ones take over the platform and butt the 'oldies' for a dive into the muddy bottom. Just don't take away the pleasure and do have fun!

"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."

by Oui on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 01:26:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This kind of nastiness is not typical.
by Teach313 (teachSKIP313ATmacDOTcom) on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 05:29:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks -- I actually think it is quite typical on these community blog-type-thingies, cyclical maybe, but most definately typical.  Not surprised, just bad timing on my part!

lol

by bogo bear on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 05:52:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
yeah, it is definitely cyclical.  Moderating a site like this is not easy.  I've made some mistakes.  In other cases I don't think there was a good decision available.

For the most part, the core group of people here is pretty tight.  There have been some people here the last few days that were very respected parts of this community but that left over one thing or another.  They came back and they rehashed an old controversy from last summer.

On the one hand, it was great to see some old faces.  On the other, we really didn't need to re-fight and old sore spot.

If you want to get to know the community the best way to do it is to find the most recent Froggy Bottom Cafe or Lounge and introduce yourself.  

Most of what goes on in the Cafe is non-political.  But it is a way to get to know some pretty great political activists.  

by BooMan on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 05:58:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting -- do you moderate the site yourself or is it a tag team thing?

I've learned much so far (more than I really want to know, frankly), and thanks for the Cafe tip, but I am not much into sharing personal stuff with complete strangers...and with this group, looks like that kind of thing can come back and bite you in the ass!

Mostly, I'll probably just read and post inconsquential blather here and there when the mood strikes me.

by bogo bear on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 06:12:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is what your best friend Tracy is contuing at Dkos...bashing this place and claiming she will never write here again. Then she is all over here bashing in some threads and acting like absolutely nothing has happened in others. It is disgusting! Tracy is the one that opened this whole thing up again. You allowed her to call Super a "fucking pig, I hope you fucking die" and me a "physcho spoiled bitch" ? I have been here since day one and really have admired and respected you, your writing and analysis of the political climate but the way you have handled this whole thing is absurd. Things had been very respectful and peaceful here until she reappeared this past month. Think about it.

"Thanks clammy (3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:clammyc, exmearden, godislove
I've always loved your writing.  Not going to do anything Booman ever again.  Really hurts though that feasting on my daughter is so delightful.

In the Pajamahadeen I'm Scooby-Doo!

by Militarytracy on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 08:25:22 AM PST

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.

by alohaleezy on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 06:10:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If I have been too tolerant of Tracy's outbursts I have to accept that criticism.  She left voluntarily.  She came back.  I was surprised that she came back.  I warned her that she couldn't write personal attacks like the one she wrote against supersoling.  

I know Tracy and have spent time with her and her son.  I have been very reticent to ban anyone ever since the Parker incident.  Tracy is on notice that she can't continue to berate people.  

I'm sorry if you are upset with me about how I am handling this, but I am doing my best.  

by BooMan on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 06:17:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey Buddy, it's your blog. If you want someone here that goes over to Dkos and writes a diary bad mouthing this site and the people that have kept you up and running for a long time so be it. Adios amigo. I wish you only good things.

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.
by alohaleezy on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 06:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't want that.  

It sould be obvious how I feel about people posting diaries at DK that disparage this community.  But I am not looking to ban people lightly either.  

by BooMan on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 06:37:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BooMan - do you think it would be a good idea (or horrible) to as a community come up with standards of conduct that we would like to abide by, with specific, easy to follow consequences?

"Don't waste your time on the clowns, watch the real show"
by Second Nature on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 06:39:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is this what you had in mind when you started this blog? Did you imagine the same five or so people sitting in a cafe all day talking about their cats or dogs or pictures? Did you imagine the baiting and the cussing and the fights and the eating of their own nad the lies and disparaging comments here?

Let's get real here my friend. You told us you wanted a place to figure out how to Frog March the liars in the White House out and I believe to also help stop the war and make sure the votes were legally counted. Things like homes for the homeless and jobs for the jobless and healthcare for 40 million people without flippin insurance. To get progressives elected. What happened to all of that. The only time the traffic goes way up is if there is a flamewar between two posters or usually it involves a Dkos diary. Look what you one paragraph diary on Mariscat did last night!

Nope, not what I originally came over here from Dkos for. Not by a long shot.

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.

by alohaleezy on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 06:46:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your comments about the cafe has made me want to go dig up every goddamned animal picture I could find on the internet and send them to you, one at a time... forever. I sure do wish that you hadn't said that. I wish I hadn't read that. The FBC pisses you off? TOUGH SHIT. You don't see the need for mindless banter and human interaction in these dark times? Doesn't appeal to your elitist self image? Fine. THEN DON'T GO THERE, but DON'T DISPARAGE THOSE OF US WHO DO.

##**%!!#@%!!... and I mean that from the bottom of my animal loving, FBC loving heart.

by Nag on Sat Feb 3rd, 2007 at 01:07:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The site has a life of its own.  What is it that you want me do to?  Ban Tracy?  She's on notice.
by BooMan on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 06:54:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I want you to ban the FBC.  Really, they're a pathetic bunch of losers and hangers on.

"Don't waste your time on the clowns, watch the real show"
by Second Nature on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 06:55:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nothing, nothing at all. Life of its own is fine for those that aspire to little more I guess. I tried. But you just don't seem to care so what's the use. Have fun. You too SN and all your little clique over at the Lounge that Diane started for you.

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.
by alohaleezy on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 06:59:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
to maintain the site so that the margins and comments don't get all out of whack so you cannot read them.

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.
by alohaleezy on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 07:01:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
tell me what you think.

I am asking you.

by BooMan on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 07:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I want you to be an administrator and you know what the right thing to do is. I want you to take control of your blog. Not try and just generate traffic. You have a brilliant mind kiddo. I wish I had half your intelligence. You know how to write. DO IT!! Don't play all these silly kids games.Did you really imagine a chat room for animal lovers? Are you satisfied?

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.
by alohaleezy on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 07:12:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I like the animal lovers.  I write what I write and I try to keep people happy.  Sometimes I fail.  
by BooMan on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 07:13:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We all do martin, it is called being human. God knows, and everyone here, that I have made my share of mistakes and said awful things. I truly regret that but what you have allowed Tracy to do here  to me to super to Janet is just not right. So with that, I truly mean this, I wish you well. Now, it is time for me to call it a day. GO BEARS!

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.
by alohaleezy on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 07:18:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tolerance is a tight rope. It is difficult to walk. You are doing well.
by sidewinder on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 11:51:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Boo, if you don't take lightly to banning people, can you explain why you banned spiderleaf then? For asking you to admit your mistakes and correct the record? For standing up to the hatred being flung about (not just toward her, but toward many people who've displayed nothing but measured patience and goodwill toward others)? For stating plain and obvious truths about the clique mentality that's overcome all of this site's original goals?

These are people who have contributed in a very real and tangible way to your success, and to furthering the causes that we all profess to hold dear (as alohaleezy so eloquently put it in her reply to this comment). Spiderleaf has shared many of her most personal thoughts and experiences in the time she's been here.

I expect you or someone else will bring out the strawman of 'outing' people, or exposing their personal information. Let me explain why that's a strawman argument: when anyone posts something on the internet, it's there for all to see, and anyone can do just about anything with that information. Nobody can save Armando from the fact that he advertises his new identity over on another blog in his profile. Nobody but Maneegee can take down the photos that he uploaded, showing you and CG in a very affectionate pose. And he did. But, we who have seen it have seen it, and that can't be changed. Want me to stop mentioning it any further? Sure, just ask nicely. Want me to change google's search results? No can do. It didn't take a private detective to figure this stuff out. Only an average IQ and an internet connection. There were no breaches of confidentiality.

Now, I've asked you on spidey's behalf if you would delete the content she's contributed to your site. And you replied with a contrite "no". That's your choice, and no one else's.  We know at the time we hit 'submit' that we're turning this power over to you. Did we misjudge the compassion you would show if we later decided that those personal thoughts shouldn't be up on the site? Remember, I'm not talking about what's in google's cache, or what anyone else is free to think or say: I'm talking about the power that you have to show respect and compassion, or ignore the request, for whatever reason.

So, it's your site and your choice to do as you see fit, for whatever reasons you decide are important. I'm not challenging your decision to ban spiderleaf, but I think you owe the community a little explanation of how this fits in with what you're saying should be so obvious, because it isn't so obvious to some. I am asking you to reconsider her request to delete what she's posted. There are one or two items in particular which, even if you want to keep the rest, would be worth considering deleting. If you are willing to discuss this offline, you have both of our email addresses from our private profiles, and our word that what's discussed in the confidence of email will remain confidential.

Everybody Comes From Somewhere: Conversations and Activism

by CookTing (FEMA|at|yourhouse|dot|now) on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 07:26:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I banned her because I was sick of her and she was challenging me to ban her.  It's that simple.  
by BooMan on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 07:27:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
whoa! Is that really the bottom line here? If you get sick of someone and/or they are challenging you, they get banned??

I think I'll tread lightly if at all.

by bogo bear on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 08:28:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for taking a whole 10 seconds to consider what I wrote. You're one of a kind.

Everybody Comes From Somewhere: Conversations and Activism
by CookTing (FEMA|at|yourhouse|dot|now) on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 07:29:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't want to give you the impression that there is some great principle being defended here.  She lied.  She refused to admit lying.  She wanted me to ban her, so I did.

I'm deleting anything unless you can show me some harm that might come to her.  If there are indiscretions she wants deleted I will consider that.

Otherwise, she wanted to be bannedd and she got her wish.

by BooMan on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 07:33:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What if?   What if she didn't lie, even though you think you have irrefutable proof, which I am not buying that you did.  What do you expect someone to do if they have not lied.  
What she wanted was an apology, not to be banned and what she wanted was not to be accused of doing something she says she did not do.
This sounds a lot like the Plame affair....what you knew, and when you knew it.
Personally, if someone called me a liar and stuck with it, after I said I did not then I would be mad to say the least, to me that is the worse thing you can say to someone and to continue to say it.
I have an idea, why don't you ask Catnip who told her.
In all reality I think you warned MT before she left the last time and so this would be a second warning, but in my mind it should have been taken care of a long time ago.
This is not the first time something like this has happened here and will not be the last.
I suggested 2 years ago that you make firm rules and then abide, the do not be a prick rule is stupid..but even if you went by that rule a lot more people would have been banned.
What we want most of us here I do think is to not be attacked verbally.
Then there is always the time out which I suggested before also,  warning, then time out for 2 weeks, then second warning time out for months or something of that nature.  Call it a cooling off period.


Click here to step into the Village Blue2
by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 07:46:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
she lied Diane.  She lied.

She is a liar.

She might be innocent of some of what I accused her of but not all of it.

She is a big fat enormous liar.

I hope, if nothing else, that has become clear in this whole blow-up.

She did more than anyone else to make an issue of my personal life back in July.  I'm done with debating it.  Nothing she has said has convinced me otherwise. Nothing.

I haven't banned anyone in ages and I let her lie for hours today and yesterday.  But when she asked to be banned it was an easy request to grant.

by BooMan on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 07:57:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So if someone lies about you then that is grounds for banning which I believe you threatened first before she "asked for it". But Tracy can spread lies here and all over the flippin internet and severely abuse people here she is given a warning...again? This was her second warning. Am I missing something?

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.
by alohaleezy on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 08:08:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well you haven't proven it to me and I suspect others as well.  Can't imagine why she would want to be here at all after that but I sure can understand why someone would react in the way she did when accused and still continues to be accused.  
Booman I have done probably more than most people on this site to build it up and I certainly hate to see things continue on in this direction.
I will let it rest now but I strongly urge you to make site rules as I suggested above.


Click here to step into the Village Blue2
by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 08:24:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have wanted to weigh in on lots of this stuff, but have chosen not to until now. I do so with a heavy heart.

I understand Boo that you are frusterated and understand a bit about why. But I'll tell you that there was LOTS of chatter going on in different places about your relationship about the time of ykos. I remember doing it (mostly offline) too. So your case that it HAD to be Spider who told Catnip just doesn't add up.

I know you feel confused about this "banning" thing. But I think the absolutely WORST thing you can do is to ban someone out of anger. As others have said, what Tracy said to Super, Janet, Aloha, etc., was about at "prickish" as it gets. But because YOU are mad at Spider, she's the one that gets banned??? I'm not here to defend Spider, sometimes she makes me cringe with her comments. But I like her gutsy attitude. And I would miss her alot.

You know we often counsel parents not to discipline their kids out of anger. You usually make mistakes when that's where it comes from. I think the same thing should apply to banning here. If you're going to do it (and I know it needs to be done sometimes) do it rationally and for solid reasons.

Doesn't information itself have a liberal bias? Steven Colbert

by NLinStPaul on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 08:25:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey Oui, don't get me wrong, I do care alot. Just not about if this diary was rec'd or not.

Thanks for the kind words, and always good to see you too!

by spiderleaf (spiderleaf at gmail dot com) on Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 at 10:12:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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