Don't forget Connecticut!  ;>)

If the neocons can take over the republican party, then surely we are on the way of taking over the democratic party.  The wins the blogosphere saw in November were just the beginning.  It took the neocons some 20 or 30 years to fully usurp the republican party.  I think that the blogosphere can accomplish the same in less time because information moves so much faster now.  Of course, that could just be my idealism shining through.

On the other hand, I can completely understand the more progressive members among us for being utterly disgusted with the Clintons and refuse to back Hillary.  That is why we must do all we can to ensure that she loses the primary.  If she wins the primary, it could split the democratic party, and that would be a travesty.

I am all for the primary process and we absolutely should challenge any democratic candidates that are right of center, like Lieberman, Hillary, and Tauscher.

There's a sense that people in America aren't getting the truth. - George W. Bush (Gee, ya think?)

If your big thing is opposition to taxes or opposition to abortion...

They came up with the anti-tax pledge and they have insisted all their candidates be anti-choice.

Over time the party came to reflect those values in a fairly solid manner.  The Club for Growth continues to do primary challenges to reinforce the tax thing.

On abortion, they have been getting their judges.  Do the Wall Street types want to outlaw abortion?  No.  But they can't control these folks anymore after ceding them so much power.  At many points anti-abortion folks could have given up after realizing that the power brokers were just using them and just paying lip service to their issues.  

But in the end they succeeded in taking over the party.  They've made more inroads in opposing abortion than they ever could have accomplished in a third party.  

I don't like to compare myself to the anti-abortion crowd but there is a lesson there.  You can change the party even as the power brokers within it are using you, paying you lip service, etc.  But you have to fight over the long-haul, not get discouraged...you have to be cynical without letting cynicism deflect you from your goals.  And eventually, the power brokers will cede you so much power that they can no longer control you.  At that point, the party has changed into something different.

If we want a different kind of foreign policy, if we want universal health care, if we want de-consolidation of the media, if we want our civil rights back, then we are going to have to break the consensus on these issues within the higher echelons of the Democratic Party.

Along the way we will have countless opportunities to be insulted by the party and be dismissed by the party... and the temptation is to walk away from the party.  

But there is no walking away from this two-party system.  You are either within it or you are on the sidelines.  

The only thing a third party can do is punish centrist thinking and try to teach one of the two parties to pander to their issues.  But they can't fundamentally alter the center because they have no power and cannot vote on or craft legislation.

I do think the third party route is very difficult, to say the least.  In some ways I would see a third party as a tool to put some leverage on one of the "major" parties.

No easy answers. But I truly don't understand why the Dems seem so timid about rocking the boat. And I truly don't understand working to elect Democrats who will bring us more of the same.

If you want things to get better, be prepared to deal with change.

With the house burning down, the only measure of how the Democrats are doing has to be how well they at least begin to put out an inferno that's been destroying us since at least 1980. When that's mostly accomplished, we can shift our judgment to consider the worthiness of the new building they want to put over the scorched earth.

Bush is "the first President to admit to an impeachable offense." --Former Nixon counsel John Dean

Among several problems with the campaign, Penny refused to play dirty, but he went a bit too far by not defending himself, at least until it was too late. The Sunday before the elections, even though the MNIP is considered one of the major parties in this state, and had met all the debate criteria, a local PBS show included a rep for the Democrats, and a rep for the Republicans. No entrance for the MNIP. The other two parties took advantage of the situation by double-teaming and ridiculing Penny, in a despicable game where he wasn't allowed representation. (IIRC, Penny ended up with 16% of the votes, when he had the potential to win merely days before. Lots of other campaign problems, including Ventura royally messing things up for him the day before the election, but that's neither here nor there right now.)  

Another great candidate was Jim Moore, who was running for U.S. Senate. He identified the major problems and offered...(gasp!)...great solutions. Loved watching him in debates. Problem was, it was the election between Wellstone (followed by Mondale) and Coleman. Even though Moore met all the qualifications, he wasn't allowed to participate in a highly televised debate, because The Powers That Be determined he'd be taking valuable air time away from the much anticipated Mondale/Coleman debate.

I guess that pretty much sums up the fairness of the media-backed political system for viable third parties.  
 

miino biimaadizi

It's probably not going to be in my lifetime that we'll have a completely progressive Democratic Party, but we can start the process now by encouraging younger progressives to run for those smaller races, so they can can work on affecting policy changes on a small level that can eventually be used as models for more dramatic changes, and eventually move up to those higher profile positions. I'm thinking of the movie "Dave" where the faux President asks the Vice President how he got into politics; he replied that he started out by running for city council, got elected, and just moved on up from there. With the power and the backing of the "netroots", that can happen again...

"Mr. Bush, you do not own this country!" -- Keith Olbermann, 1/2/07

As to the third party idea, an acquaintance of mine ran for secretary of state here last year, the idea being let's get the ballot opened up for the Greens. He and his supporters got thousands to sign his ballot petition. They devoted tremendous amounts of time, energy and money to the effort. They fell a little short on signatures, but he ran as a write-in anyway. The results are sadly predictable, as the deck is seriously stacked against anyone breaking into the club, especially in a red state like this one. Here's what happened:

Pearson, Joe (Democrat)  746460    
Kole, Mike (Libertarian)  54381    
Rokita, Todd (Republican)  835915    
Stant, Bill (W/I(Green))  342

All things considered, I'm sticking with Howard Dean a little longer.    

"Only when we are no longer afraid do we begin to live." Dorothy Thompson, Journalist