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Display:
Yeah, Yeah.  I know I'm a bit obsessed with this topic.  Hopefully it will be the last one I feel compelled to make.

John McCain hates my wife because she's a "gook."
by Steven D on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 09:18:19 PM EST
I guess having a daughter recently hasn't taught him anything yet.  But something like this does not surprise me after three years of being acquainted with his propensity to mouth off about women.

Like I've said about some of my students, you're too young to be soooo old.

Amazing how much you miss when you lay off the blogosphere to get your finances in order.

Meanwhile, the lady Crimson Knights of Rutgers are getting death threats and hate mail because of Imus' firing. They were in the middle of this until they, with the support of their college/community, began speaking out.

Women bloggers deserve our support and understanding.  Especially those doing crucial investigative reporting not seen in the MSM.

The video reporting on the Libby case by the women of FiredogLake also deserve Peabody awards...

You wonder what indeed possessses Kos on certain days.
 

An untypical Negro

by blksista (gab1954@gmail.com) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 09:29:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You wonder what indeed possessses Kos on certain days.

The spirit of his hero, Ronald Reagan?  You know, the President who sponsored the slaughter of leftist rebels in El Salvador (where Kos' family was allied with the right-wing elite)?

Visit me at The Blogging Curmudgeon

by The Blogging Curmudgeon on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 09:52:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is that true? The bit about his family? Just curious.

mbr + dv + woyg
by keirdubois (keir@mybandrocks.com) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 09:59:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you read the biography on DailyKos, Kos' family moved back and forth between the United States and El Salvador.

Kos' uncle was the Minister for Education for El Salvador during the 1980s.  At the time Kos' uncle was a government official, right-wing death squads were roaming the countryside, wiping out campesinos (peasants) who allied themselves with the political left.

The political class (those allowed to hold high office) in El Salvador has always been small:  perhaps 30 families rotate the political offices amongst them.  That means the Moulitsas family is, shall we say, well-connected.  The very fact that they were allowed to leave El Salvador at that time says that they had a freedom of movement that the ordinary Salvadoran peasants sure didn't have.

And yes, Kos has written many times that he admired Ronald Reagan.  Reagan is Kos' hero and the model of what a Republican ought to be.

As for me, I voted against Reagan twice and hated not only his politics but the empty-headed, empty-hearted man himself.  And Reagan was STILL a much better President than the current occupant!

You can find the article about the right-wing affiliation of the Moulitsas family at this Washington Monthly article:  Kos Call by Benjamin Wallace-Wells

Moulitsas was born in Chicago to a middle class, ethnically-Greek family from El Salvador (his uncle, an architect, had briefly been that country's education minister). The family moved back to El Salvador when Moulitsas was four and was on the right-wing side of the Cold War proxy fight there. But as that war's intrusions became unbearable--Moulitsas talks about stepping over dead bodies--the family returned to Chicago, where he grew up, in his own words, "a loudmouthed nerd."

After high school, Moulitsas, then a Reagan Republican thanks largely to the White House's support of the Salvadorean government, spent four years as an army artillery scout, mainly in Germany.



Visit me at The Blogging Curmudgeon
by The Blogging Curmudgeon on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 10:13:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for that.

As for Reagan, well, I still can't relate or empathize with the impulse to admire that guy. My very first political memory is watching the '84 returns come in on TV (I was into the big map behind the newscaster) and every time a state went for Ronnie my dad said "dammit!". He swore a lot that night. Elections and cussing have gone hand in hand for me ever since.

mbr + dv + woyg

by keirdubois (keir@mybandrocks.com) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 10:22:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
mercenaries.  

This was back during the first Fallujah episode.  

Well, he is not the most graceful writer, and he did not make his remarks . . . gracefully.  

Ironically, he got slammed for that.  

Still, he is indeed well connected, and farther right than most of us think.  

by Gaianne on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 10:47:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Earlier I had tried to put something up and it was pulled down quickly.

I am beginning to see the issue, but still feel, due to personal experience, that the best defense against some right wingnut twit is the law and a hard pair of fists.  I learned this as a Kerry worker in 2004 against rednecks in Oswego county, New York.

I am with Sheelzebub at Pinko Feminist Hellcat.  Get Tough.

But Markos stuck his foot into this one, and I think he ought to address this, and soon, like double quick, for I see the damage being done that I didn't fully appreciate this morning.

Bloggers that should be united are not.  And this isn't so good.

by boilerman10 on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 01:19:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nothing was pulled down here.
by BooMan on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 01:22:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
then for some reason, it didn't go up.  I thought it was pulled.

Either way, this hoo-haa is hurting progressive blogging.

by boilerman10 on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 11:17:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
is when the highest traffic blog trivializes online sexual harassment. Kos could not have meant to say might makes right, but that is the logical conclusion of his remarks. It just encourages online bullies.

A voice has been silenced and lost to blogosphere because of this. Liberals should care.

As Moderate Left blog put it, women are the majority of Democratic voters, anyone who trivializes women's issues is no friend of the Democratic party.

Kos shot himself in the foot. His fellow progressives are attempting, thus far with no success, to point that out and make clear the seriousness of the situation. Every hour this goes unanswered it becomes more serious.

Had Kos, within a few hours of the original post added an update along the lines of: I spoke before getting the facts, I don't have time to write a proper post I just want to apologize to Sierra and what should be obvious, it is not acceptable to allow your online forum to be used for the purpose of threatening violence.

That would have been sufficient, the whole thing would have blown over. But for some reason He cannot be brought to understand that this is serious and his fellow high traffic bloggers (I hate the term A list) cannot understand that in absence of Kos doing the right thing they need to speak to this.

by AliceDem on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:35:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
this whole issue is about solidarity. This is a time to show Sierra and other victims of online harassment some solidarity. "Just suck it up" is not a adequate response.
by AliceDem on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:38:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What do you propose then?

A blogger bill of ethics?  How will you enforce it?

I can sympathize and support Kathy but I will be damned if I am going to scream that if we don't fawn over her plight we are somehow sexist, for that is complete hogwash!

If you are aware of my signature statement at DK, you already know I am up to my neck in trying to stop the Iraq conflagration without resorting to histrionic rhetoric following the framing given us by Jeff Feldman.  It takes up much of my time.  This is the cross I am dragging, and it will be more than enough for my capabilities.

This whole affair is odious, typically republican/conservative and as Kos stated early, the work of a bullying coward.  Kathy needs to use the law, and use her senses.  Conservative stoops rely on a woman's terror for success at exploitation whether in the workplace or in the political arena.  For Kathy, 1st, GET A GRIP! Fear is the tool the bully uses to compell your submission!  After that get friends, the cops and if that fails GET YOURSELF A GUN! AND A LAWYER, FOR NOW THE HARRASSMENT IS REALLY FELONY STALKING, and man oh man are there civil remedies you can get, Kathy will "pwn" this creep but good.

But I will not sit here and play "professional mourner" because this poor woman got a fright from some dirty con cretin coward!

I can't speak for Kos, but I will speak for me, and I don't think you know me well enough Alice, to imply I am insensitive or sexist about this affair.  I am a working prole, and I use my hands for a living.  Thus, I learned early that if you didn't want to be a victim, you had damn well better fight when you must.  It's Kathy's time to fight, and I will help if I can but blaming Kos for being non-plussed is counter-productive.  Kos will speak when Kos gets ready, I can't make him speak, and neither will you or Booman or anyone else.

But, let's think about Kathy here, she seems to be getting lost in all the hoo-haw over Kos.

by boilerman10 on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 06:49:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Laziness?

To me that post seemed just plain lazy like Markos got home late after a busy day and wanted to get off a quick one before he sat down to dinner and thought Wow, this is a no brainer....

However, I doubt he will apologize, since it might set a precedent.

by mythmother (mythmother (at) gmail.com) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 10:01:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hope things are going well with you. Haven't crossed paths with you in ages.

What I wrote to kos in the pie fight seems as relevant today as then:

kos (4.00 / 63)
As a feminist and a father of three young girls, I'm disappointed. Not with the ad. Didn't see. It doesn't matter. But I'm disappointed with your hostile tone in this post towards the reaction of women to that advertisment. You essentially told them to "Shut their fucking pie holes." It's not about being sanctimonious. It's about understanding why a core part of this site was upset about that ad. And instead of trying to understand or show empathy, you post this. You should feel ashamed of yourself and the tone you set.

by Carnacki on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 01:34:47 AM EDT


Substitute ad for woman blogger and I can just recycle the same response.

Well, Watson, we seem to have fallen upon evil days. Sherlock Holmes
by Carnacki (Carnacki AT hauntedvampire DOT com) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 11:22:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And you were so upset with him, and so resolute in your stance as a feminist and father of potential victims that you continueud to contribute in not so small ways to the health of that fuck's site for the year and a half since the Pie Ad.

What a fucking joke Carnacki

Green Grass and High Tides Forever

by supersoling (colorsplash62@optonline.net) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 11:43:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Super, I post at Dkos too.  Regrettably it seems to be the gateway site to reaching the most people in the progressive blogosphere.  Where people choose to post is an individual decision which you are free to disagree with, but I'd ask you to please respect their choices, just as I respect the choices you feel were the right ones for you to make.

In any event, I hope all is well with you and your family.  My wife is done with her chemo, and appears to be cancer free, if you can trust the blood tests.  So that's the good news from my family.

Steve

John McCain hates my wife because she's a "gook."

by Steven D on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 11:53:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm glad to hear that all is well or better with your family Steve. I'm good too.

Double standards piss me off and frustrate the shit out of me and respect is earned, not freely given. You've earned my respect.

Green Grass and High Tides Forever

by supersoling (colorsplash62@optonline.net) on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:01:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I love you Steve, and I love Carnacki too.  I have read you both for years.  But, I do understand where Super is coming from.  You speak out against Kos, but you let the fame of posting there cloud your own ethics.  So long as people like you continue posting and commenting there, then you are enabling his behavior.  I know that you do not agree with him on this, but every diary you post, every comment you give, every click you give him enables him to continue his ways.  You can write a hundred diaries against him, but the only real way to make him hear is to stop his hits, and that means not visiting his site.  I got a load of grief for positing this idea before, but I stand by it.  If every single person who was pissed at him for his latest blunder stopped visiting his site for a week or two, he would here you.  Until then, you are just enabling him to continue to spew, because he knows it doesn't matter what he says, you will always return.


There's a sense that people in America aren't getting the truth. - George W. Bush (Gee, ya think?)
by Kamakhya (onyx at earthlink dot net) on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:02:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll take Steven at his word when he says that he only posts there because it's the biggest vehicle around. The last thing I could see him seeking or losing perspective over is fame. But you're right about the rest. Just like Madman is right about rewarding and enabling democrats who spit on us.

Green Grass and High Tides Forever
by supersoling (colorsplash62@optonline.net) on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:17:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, you've given me a lot to think about.  I don't want top respond half-cocked, and I don't want to offer up a lot of justifications that may seem self serving.  Let's say I'm thinking about what you wrote very seriously.

John McCain hates my wife because she's a "gook."
by Steven D on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:27:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you.  I know it is a heck of a lot to ask.  It's easy for me to walk away from dKos...it's not so easy for you.  Thank you again for listening.


There's a sense that people in America aren't getting the truth. - George W. Bush (Gee, ya think?)
by Kamakhya (onyx at earthlink dot net) on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:35:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm all for boycotting DK. However, when Kos writes shit like that, how can you reach those over there if you don't post there? I know that Steven's post thee yesterday produced a lot of discussion among the kossaks.
by cruz del sur (nicodk@sbcglobal.net) on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 01:06:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Steven's trying to build bridges and make something positive out of this experience.  He's also trying to teach others, including Kos himself.

Yup, Steven D is a good guy.

Unfortunately, there's one flaw in his plan:  the Markos Factor.  From what I've seen of Kos, he's not capable of the kind of self-reflection necessary to grow personally or politically.  Steven D seems to disagree; I wish I had his faith in human nature.

The reason Mr. Moulitsas aka Kos is not going to change is because he won't as long as the pageviews and advertising dollars keep coming.  People pitching a fit, on or off his site, won't work, because we have already been there and done that so many times I've lost count.  We've had more sequels to the Misogyny Saga than "Rocky" pictures, for Chrissakes, and one thing never, ever changes:  Kos.

Visit me at The Blogging Curmudgeon

by The Blogging Curmudgeon on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 03:47:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't ever recall Carnacki writing a SYFPH diary...
by PsiFighter37 on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 11:50:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Markos isn't the only person at that site. As I posted elsewhere in that diary, the site should be called Daily42 or DailyDCDemocrat. There are many worthwhile diarists there to read besides kos.

I've also called kos on other things since then as well.

So go fuck your own joke supersoling.

Well, Watson, we seem to have fallen upon evil days. Sherlock Holmes

by Carnacki (Carnacki AT hauntedvampire DOT com) on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:12:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not talking about reading the few worthy diarists that are left at that site. I'm talking about actively contributing to the coopting of the left.
The joke is on you.

Green Grass and High Tides Forever
by supersoling (colorsplash62@optonline.net) on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:21:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually you don't know what you're talking about. Where have I ever contributed "to the coopting of the left?"

I post there because I get more people to take action on my fight cancer diaries and opposition to torture diaries as well as contributions to candidates in WV-02, etc., than in all of the other sites I crosspost at combined.

So if you think I'm going to avoid posting at a site which has the most impact on the issues I find important, you're wrong. What other purpose is there in blogging on important issues than to have the most impact you can with your posts?

If you want to "take a stand" and avoid the place, that's putting your own emotions and ego ahead of the activism.

Well, Watson, we seem to have fallen upon evil days. Sherlock Holmes

by Carnacki (Carnacki AT hauntedvampire DOT com) on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:32:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
dear Super, you most certainly do have a warrior gene.

We're all in the same fucking boat here, and we need to give each other a break.

by Alice on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 06:00:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He has a watb gene.

Well, Watson, we seem to have fallen upon evil days. Sherlock Holmes
by Carnacki (Carnacki AT hauntedvampire DOT com) on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 02:47:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can you guys take this to email please?  I'd like to keep the focus on the topic at hand, not personal disagreements.

Thanks,

Steve

John McCain hates my wife because she's a "gook."

by Steven D on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:25:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't want any emails from a rude prick so don't send supersoling's emails my way. I won't read them.


Well, Watson, we seem to have fallen upon evil days. Sherlock Holmes
by Carnacki (Carnacki AT hauntedvampire DOT com) on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:35:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
sorry carnacki.  He's acting like an idiot.  He smelled meta and it lured him out of his self-imposed exile.
by BooMan on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:43:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Out of respect for you Steven, this will be my last comment on this thread.

I have no interest in emailing Carnacki, principally because email removes it from sight. And aren't you also frontpaging a personal disagreement with Kos? Where's the difference between what you are saying and what I'm saying to someone who supports the site that front pages mysogeny? Kos wouldn't be where he is today without the tacit support of those who make mild and weak protestations against his filth while simultaneously pretending that there is something worthwhile there to contribute to.

Good night

Green Grass and High Tides Forever

by supersoling (colorsplash62@optonline.net) on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:40:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What a hypocrite it turns out you are.

This may cause a short circuit, but it's actually possible for some to disagree with Kos and continue posting. That is, until they're banned. And usually it begins with a callout like yours here.

As hard as it is, I know, pull your lips off of Kos' teat. His milk is too homogenized for your own good. Make your way into the world, Grasshopper.




Well, Watson, we seem to have fallen upon evil days. Sherlock Holmes
by Carnacki (Carnacki AT hauntedvampire DOT com) on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:48:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Has a long history of solid, constructive diaries and comments over at that other site.

Your point is worthy of consideration, but your language makes it easy to dismiss.  I don't think Carnacki deserves what you dished out.

I suggest you do what Kos didn't:  apologize for the name calling and the language and restate your point.  We're more likely to take you seriously if you do, and we certainly would respect you for it.

by Heart of the Rockies on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 02:51:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
just woke up from a nap and got some hint on another site  that you were getting grief somewhere?

blksista has always been A+ list in my book, she's a writer goddessdammit! way beyond blog commenter.

and fuck the concept of a-list blogs. the best writers hang with the independents.

as if that isn't obvious.

by Miss Devore (Miss Devore AT Gee Male dot commie) on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 02:04:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, you are, but you have good reason to be.  I used to be an active member of magick sites (like spiritual, but more proactive).  I was pretty respected, but I was stalked and my life threatened often.  I had a P.O. Box and a pseudonym, and I did everything to keep my RL identity secret.

The first time, the guy took pictures of my neighborhood and asked an acquaintance to point out my house.  Thankfully, the acquaintance refused and let me know.  This was after numerous death threats and rape threats.  He threatened my newborn daughter.  Then, he died of a complication of Hep C.

The next guy knew me and knew where I lived.  He published my info and threatened to rape and kill me in front of my daughter at a gathering he knew I would be at.  I was terrified, but I went to the gathering.  I was not going to let him fuck my life up.  He then died of a strong form of cancer.

I no longer participate in alternative religion sites.  I make sure to never use any identifying info and I watch what I say.  I don't want to give in, but I also don't want to experience that fear again.  I am outspoken, but I am also rather nondescript.

Thank you Steven D. for speaking the truth, for putting a spotlight on what we (as women) do experience.  Thank you for not shying away from what is a real problem, but one that has little sex appeal.  Maybe in our next lives, I can have your babies!  ;>)


There's a sense that people in America aren't getting the truth. - George W. Bush (Gee, ya think?)

by Kamakhya (onyx at earthlink dot net) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 09:53:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The only positive thing to come out of the threats against Kathy Sierra, Don Imus' firing, and now this bit with Kos is that it's once again giving people an opportunity to share their stories, and for all of us to become more away of misogyny in this society.

Every time I think things can't possibly get worse for women, I hear another story like yours, Kamkhya, and realise I was wrong.

The anonymity of the Net seems to encourage the worst behaviour in some people.  Kamakhya, the fact that online harassment moved into your real life, to the point where you were physically stalked, proves that the threats made against Ms. Sierra were not empty ones (in fact, the police are treating the threats with the seriousness they deserve).

My position is that death threats shouldn't be the price anybody, men or women, pay for speaking their minds.  But then again, as a teacher, I've never been a big fan of the "thicken your skin" solution for dealing with bullies.  That just excuses the bullying behaviour and ignores the right of the victim to never have been subjected to threats and intimidation in the first place.

Visit me at The Blogging Curmudgeon

by The Blogging Curmudgeon on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 10:05:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I contacted the police in the first case, but they basically told me that until the guy actually killed me, I had no recourse.  They agreed that I was in danger and recommended I hide.  Gee thanks.

That is out choice here, be silent, be circumspect, be anonymous.   If we refuse to be silent, then we are asking for it.

There's a sense that people in America aren't getting the truth. - George W. Bush (Gee, ya think?)

by Kamakhya (onyx at earthlink dot net) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 11:49:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not to hijack, but do you have a sense whether the response from the police was because you were female or because you were part of the magickal community?  Or was it "we're sympathetic but there's not a damn thing we can actually DO"?

We are all captives of the pictures in our heads -- our belief that the world which we have experienced is the world that really exists. -- Walter Lippman
by stormkite on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:14:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To be honest, I think they were sympathetic, but there really was nothing they could do.  That is a major issue with spousal abuse too.  The guy can threaten to kill you, but until he  does, their hands are tied.  At this point, the best you can hope for is a restraining order (which is impossible to get on an on-line stalker), which may or may not stop an attack.  It's bloody insanity.  I don't know whether its the laws that prevent the police from active, or the manpower.  

There's a sense that people in America aren't getting the truth. - George W. Bush (Gee, ya think?)
by Kamakhya (onyx at earthlink dot net) on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:23:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The guy can threaten to kill you, but until he  does, their hands are tied.  

It's called "making a terroristic threat" and it's a misdemeanor in California, at least.  The law may have changed from the time of the events that you describe.  You can do up to a year in jail for making a terroristic threat.  Maybe that's what we need to do with these guys.

A restraining order is a huge joke.  I've known women who were attacked by exes while they had restraining orders issued against these guys.  When my sister was a police officer, she said that getting a restraining order usually angered the men even more and goaded them into an attack.

Jesus, talk about a no-win situation.

Visit me at The Blogging Curmudgeon

by The Blogging Curmudgeon on Sun Apr 15th, 2007 at 03:52:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
your stories about how those two guys ended up make me a believer in Karma. Hope Markos and those on his side don't learn their lesson the hard way, by something happening to them or someone they love...


"Mr. Bush, you do not own this country!" -- Keith Olbermann, 1/2/07
by Cali Scribe on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 10:30:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not surprised you caught on to that underlying theme.  It is a premise of my life. If you treat people bad, then bad things happen.  I chose to be kind and accept an apology and forgive when asked.  Kos will never ask.  But if he does, I will gladly forgive him.

There's a sense that people in America aren't getting the truth. - George W. Bush (Gee, ya think?)
by Kamakhya (onyx at earthlink dot net) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 10:53:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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