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A Confession | 51 comments (51 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

That's an interesting take.

I had hoped that a couple of things would inform people's minds.

Obviously I have the most to lose by losing my credibility. It would seem unlikely that I would engage in dishonest discourse if I cared at at all about the health of this community. Yet, many people entertained, seriously, the idea I was lying. I don't really know why. It's not that I had any credibility problems. Maybe some people just didn't care as long as their side of an argument seemed to be winning.
I did reach out to all the people that were upset about the 'military' issue. I went over to the other sites and engaged people. They refused to understand that I had banned no one on either side of the debate until I was personally attacked.

Scribe, you have spent plenty of time with these people off BT by now. They have exposed themselves for what they are. Maybe I was right about their ill intentions at the time?

I was not and am not indifferent to the people that left. But they have the ability to look at the facts now. If they they don't want to revise their opinion of what was really happening at the time, then, I can't really explain it now.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 12:59:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 1)

Please stop trying to "inform my mind" about your side of this old battle between you and spider. I didn't care about it then, nor do I care about it now.

What I CARED about was the painful OUTCOME of how you chose to handle this whole mess. The EFFECTS of it on so many good people, that led to the actual disintegration of a core community many valued so much.

You refuse consistently to even acknowledge this aspect, no matter how many times you're told how it affected others, you just deflect it over and over back to your own needs/feelings and "those bad people who did this bad thing TO YOU!"

You said, "I was not and am not indifferent to the people that left. But they have the ability to look at the facts now"

You are not hearing me at ALL.

I could care less about those "facts" because those "facts", whatever the hell they are, had not one damned thing to do with why I left this place. Not. One.

And my comment was a bit more than an "interesting take" to me, Boo. It was an honest description of a very painful experience I had right here at Boo Trib, because of your choices of how you wanted to run it.
One that still stings, because I still miss what it was, and those I knew here, a lot.

Of course, those are just messy human feelings, not "facts."

ONward!

by scribe (scribe40@comcast.net) on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 01:57:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

what you did not and do not care about is informative.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 02:03:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 3)

FWIW, she is articulating alot of my own thoughts too. I understand that this was a deeply personal incident for you and CG, but if you 'zoom out' abit you will see that there was a whole other side of it going on from the people who didn't get the behind-the-scenes emails that I'm sure were extensive and led to alot of the public actions taken.

You said up above to me that you couldn't "meet some standard" and that's not what this was about at all wrt the comments offered, it's to try and get you to see that the public fallout of this is much bigger than whether or not your relationship was dragged into the middle of it.

I know that that is central to this post and others you've written on it, but the reality to alot of people - including me - is that it was much bigger than that. Whether anyone lied or didn't during that time doesn't excuse the fact that there was a lot of abusive comments coming from one poster who you chose to lament about losing instead of recognizing that there was a bigger problem occurring. Even Oui saw it. Read the comments to your MT-goodbye post and you'll see by the rating that alot of us agreed with that observation.

I hear alot of pain and loss in scribe and NL's comments, my guess is that it would be nice to see some recognition of the larger picture from you. Your comment to her that her focus is "informative" is far too vague to understand exactly what you're trying to say. I don't believe she is speaking out of spite, but out of a genuine hope that you'll see where others are coming from.

Not trying to pick a fight here, just offering what I hope is some insight into the way this whole thing played out in public through a different lense than yours.

Latino Político | "We are condemned to kill time, thus we die bit by bit." - Octavio Paz

by Man Eegee (man.eegee at gmail.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 04:42:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 3)

You're right ManE, there's no spite behind my comments: thank's for seeing that.

Back then, Boo, this place, (whether you planned this or not) had become like an online family grouping,or community,for many of us. Like it or not, because this is your place, that made you it's leader, or it's "parent", so to speak.

When I flew in here with my tail feathers in bright orange flames, I said I'd never trust any online leader type to be who they seemed, ever again. Yet in time, I did come to trust you, Boo..to be open minded, and a fair and equitable blog leader/parent.

Trusting someone means opening up the heart a bit, and that makes it a bit more vulnerable. So when the bad storms came here and threatened to blow these walls down on all of us, I thought you'd be there for all of us, and somehow together, we'd figure out how to weather it.

You weren't there for all of us, Boo. You turned away from us to take care of a favored one. We yelled and yelled "Hey BOO, the walls are caving in on US too!..Let us help you shore them UP!" and you did not hear or care.

You just asked us to help you take care of the favored one: to not take her attacks personally no matter how much blood she drew. And from there, once you felt personally attacked, THATS where your focus and attention went, and where it apparently still is.

Well, we couldn't hold up the walls without you, Boo, and they fell down while were completely occupied with your favored ones, then with your crusade to save your own personal "credibility". So off we drifted, one by one. Or were banned because we pissed you off somehow.

And STILL I can't tell if you really even cared. Boo. I honestly can't.

I am NOT trying to "inform your mind", Boo. I am trying to reach the heart I know damned well you have. Why I keep trying to just beats the hell outa me. Something just has never let me stay totally away from here, even though my OWN "head" knows that would be a wise thing for me to do.

ONward!

by scribe (scribe40@comcast.net) on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 10:35:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

That is not what happened, that is what a group of people perceived to be happening because they did not believe me when I told them catnip and spiderleaf were trolls deliberately stoking the fires and deliberately disrupting the site.

I'm not going to argue the history anymore because it makes me too angry.

But I will say this. Yes, I was very upset and sad to see people go. Especially the people that I felt were being taken in by a totally specious argument.

I will once again remind you that Tracy was suspended (voluntarily) and when she came back she was rather promptly convinced to ban herself. But no one else was banned during all the flamewars until spiderleaf decided to get personal and lie about it.

The so-called double standard simply didn't exist.

And one piece of history:

The culmination of the flamewar occurred when Tracy's daughter posted a diary asking her to walk away. I saw it before Tracy did and before it had any comments. I wanted to erase it but decided Tracy needed to see it. I hoped that people would have the good taste not to comment in it. In retrospect I should have cut of the comments so no one would. But supersoling couldn't help himself and decided to correct Tracy's daughter on some point of fact.

Tracy responded with anger and with language that caused me to warn her that she had no more second chances. Any more outbursts and she would be banned. That was my ruling.

That ruling was disliked by many, who insisted she should be banned outright and immediately. I stuck by my ruling and quietly convinced her offline that she should walk away, just as her daughter had advised. That is what happened.

And then supersoling lied in the same thread to cover up for spiderleaf, and continued to lie publicly even after he had admitted lying to me in a private email.

That is what happened. And now I am done with it.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 10:50:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 2)

I hear you're done - and that's fine. But I'm going to put a question out just in case it can help me clarify a bit.

I will once again remind you that Tracy was suspended (voluntarily) and when she came back she was rather promptly convinced to ban herself.

Perhaps you didn't read all the diaries and comments I did in between these two events where Tracy unleashed her fury on just about everyone here. At first, many of us tried to reach out to her, knowing she was facing her husband's redeployment and trying our best to support her. But she met all of that with not much but fury. When it hit people like Diane, Janet and Boston Joe - I knew she needed professional help and that letting her continue to blast away here was actually more destructive to her, not to mention to this community. Did you not see all of that?? That final blast at Super was just one in a long line that were equally egregious (prickish, if you will).

Doesn't information itself have a liberal bias? Steven Colbert

by NLinStPaul on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:07:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

I didn't read all of it at the time. For example, I never saw whatever happened with Janet. And I have apologized for not handling it better at the time. Repeatedly.

And, of course I know that her blast at supersoling was a culmination of a lot of stuff. It was in her daughter's diary, asking her to step away.

The truth is that I was going to ban Tracy as soon as I saw her daughter's diary, but only if I couldn't convince her to take her daughter's advice.

And I issued her a last chance warning that I also knew she would violate...which was another way of banning her.

At the time I was a lot more alarmed to see her daughter posting than I was about the need to ban her publicly and loudly to suit everyone's tastes.

Obviously it was a bad decision for the health of the community, but I had good reasons for it.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:44:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 1)

"Scribe is one of the last people that I would look to to find genuine remorse. She was one of the people most taken in by spiderleaf and catnip, to the point she actually joined their efforts at meta destruction as an unwitting buffoon. And I would forgive it if I saw any recognition that she was used and played for a fool."

I probably ought to thank you thank you for finally being honest about how feel about me, Boo. Because it certainly snapped the last tiny strand of my connection here, and marks the absolute last time you will ever see me here again.

Bet on it.

Not one more hit, no matter how much I will miss Stevens work and that of others here I respect and read regularly. As if you care.

As for you, can take your arrogant, narcissistic self straight to hell, and your blog too, for all I care.

You are not who I thought you were. You're just another arrogant, self involved ass.

The end.

ONward!

by scribe (scribe40@comcast.net) on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:29:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

I read this before:

What I have to say here goes for you and for ALL blog "owners" who are now running all over the place whining and screaming about how they've been so maligned and mistreated, demanding apologies, and other wise stamping your petulant little feet like pissed off gradechoolers.
YOU ALL CHOSE to set yourself up as the sovereign leaders of a communnity blogs. If you were too stupid to understand that everyone who places themselves in visible leadership positions AUTOMATICALLY become walking targets, and do not possess the kills to handle this inevitability, you are not qualified to "lead" anyone anywhere, except down whatever crapper YOU fall unto yourself.

I'm a walking target to you.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:36:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

sorry, Manny.

I have a memory.

And when my memory fails me, I have google.

Scribe is one of the last people that I would look to to find genuine remorse. She was one of the people most taken in by spiderleaf and catnip, to the point she actually joined their efforts at meta destruction as an unwitting buffoon.

And I would forgive it if I saw any recognition that she was used and played for a fool.

And before I get angry at this line of argument, I will just say that I did not ban ANYONE during the battle over the military. NO ONE WAS BANNED. Tracy was suspended and that was it.

People thought I should have banned Tracy faster than I did and that I shouldn't have banned spiderleaf. They were wrong then and they are still wrong now if they can't see that I had trolls on my hands that were feeding the Tracy thing as hard as the could.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 10:13:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 3)

OK, so now I begin to see what happened. I don't like what I see, but at least its a bit clearer.

While Tracy was in the midst of having a breakdown here and doing her best to take anyone she could down with her (after endless attempts by almost all concerned to try to reach out and help her, only to feel her backhand across the face), you are convinced that it was spider who was out to wreck your blog.

I don't see it that way at all!! But your drawing of some kind of line in the sand of those who don't see it that way, and therefore continued to maintain an online relationship with spider as somehow being unwitting buffons or being played the fool is where the real grade-school attitude comes in to play.

I am really incensed about how you just spoke about Scribe. I'll let it sit for a while and see where I go with it because, you see, people are multi-dimensional. They are NOT good/bad, we all make mistakes and, at the same time commit acts of brilliance. That is true of you - just as it is of the rest of us.

Doesn't information itself have a liberal bias? Steven Colbert

by NLinStPaul on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 10:49:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

NL-

Scribe has been a major contributor, for a year, to a site that routinely lampoons, ridicules, and smears me.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:05:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 2)

Yeah, there's alot of people there that are mad at you. In case you missed it, many of us went there (including me) during all this mess as a way to take some of our anger someplace besides here - where things were reeling out of control as it was. I found it a useful place for awhile. And if you hadn't continued to link what was going on there, most here probably never would have seen it. I think its this "conspiracy" thing that is getting in your way now. I'm going to be real blunt here and tell you how I see it:

Tracy was having a breakdown and needed to get offline.
Spider is hot-headed and goes over the line at times. Interestingly enough, she usually gets it eventually and fesses up - the very thing that led to this diary in the first place.
Catnip - now there's a peice of work for you. The relationship between you and her is way to complicated for me to understand. I know a lot of it has gone on offline so I'm not even going to try to go there. Except to say that I have a hunch you're being played like a violin by her.

Doesn't information itself have a liberal bias? Steven Colbert

by NLinStPaul on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:26:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 1)

You are not listening. We will just have to agree to disagree. Once upon a time, that was how we handled things around here.

Latino Político | "We are condemned to kill time, thus we die bit by bit." - Octavio Paz

by Man Eegee (man.eegee at gmail.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 12:09:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A Confession | 51 comments (51 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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