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Larry Craig | 43 comments (43 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Larry Craig (none / 0)

Here's how I sum it up. You are totally focused on the fact that Senator Craig wanted sex. I think that totally misses the point. Jerking off in a crowded movie theater is totally inappropriate and rightfully illegal. So is going into a restroom and peering over the shoulder of people while they urinate. So is peering into the stall while people are trying to take a crap. So is physically touching some from under the stall divider.

Somewhere in your head you've decided this is not out of the norm for gay men. I assure that you are wrong. It's pretty offensive to suggest otherwise.

That's my summary.

by BooMan on Tue Aug 28th, 2007 at 10:48:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Larry Craig (none / 0)

I just looked over at TPM, and there's a front page post there of a reader's letter saying that "The issue here is, why is the Minneapolis Airport PD arresting people for such flimsy reasons?" So I'm not the only one who has trouble getting all worked up about what's in the arrest report. And many people posting in other places also don't seem to be that bothered.

I really don't think I have been saying anything offensive. I don't know how the percentage of gays who go to public restrooms compares to the percentage of straight men who regularly use prostitute's services. I imagine the two are pretty comparable. And I don't think that anything Craig did or gays that get each other off in lavatories do is worse than a straight man going to a prostitute. And as I said, I don't think that the incidence of the one behavior among gays is higher than the incidence of the other among straights. So I really don't think I have denigrated gays in any way.

This might be out of the norm for gay men, but I am not sure that it is more out of the norm than going to hookers is out of the norm for straight men. Clearly, the arresting police officer had seen a lot of this type of behavior before he arrested Craig, and his report states that their department "has made numerous arrests regarding sexual activity in the public restroom." That suggests that even if this activity is outside of the norm, the norm does get broken with some regularity.

Finally, it is not just I that am "totally focused on the fact that Senator Craig wanted sex", but also the criminal justice system, since the cop made the arrest only after he thought that Craig had done enough to make it clear that he was soliciting.sex. And for what its worth, the interference with privacy charge was dismissed, for whatever reason.

Republicans are like fetuses: both are incapable of thought. That's why Republicans are against abortion.

by Alexander on Tue Aug 28th, 2007 at 11:56:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Larry Craig (none / 0)

Jesus.

Sgt. Dave Karsnia was working as a plainclothes officer on June 11 investigating civilian complaints regarding sexual activity in the men's public restroom in which Craig was arrested.

This is really hard to understand?

by BooMan on Wed Aug 29th, 2007 at 12:08:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Larry Craig (none / 0)

We seem to be at cross-purposes. The complaints were (1) "regarding sexual activity", whereas in your previous post you wrote that I "totally miss the point" that the main problem isn't Craig's wanting sex, but interference with privacy (complaints about which were not mentioned in the arrest report); and (2) were unlikely to have been about Craig specifically, unless he's made an awful lot of visits to that restroom.

Republicans are like fetuses: both are incapable of thought. That's why Republicans are against abortion.

by Alexander on Wed Aug 29th, 2007 at 01:13:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Larry Craig (none / 0)

Of course Larry Craig had visited that rest room before. Everytime he flies from DC to Idaho he has a layover in that terminal. I assume it is the Northwest airline he uses.

People were complaining about sexual activity in that restroom that Craig was surely well aware was occurring. Hell...he was one of the people engaging in it.

So, why did the police put on a sting? Because they were getting complaints. The complaints aren't itemized, so we don't know whether people complained about being propositioned or peeped upon, or just about actual sexual activity.

Is there any question that the airport police have an obligation to clean that kind of activity out of the airport restrooms when they receive complaints?

Why would anybody call that frivolous?

Now think about this for a minute. No one travels by air just so they can use a terminal rest room known for sexual activity. I doubt the restroom was even available to non-ticket holders...although I could be wrong about that.

If this was a recurring problem it must have been a limited number of frequent travelers that knew about it...including Craig.

If you knew where to look you could probably even find references to it online.

It was prevalent enough that it caused multiple complaints. I can't see why anyone thinks this investigation and arrest weren't justified.

by BooMan on Wed Aug 29th, 2007 at 01:44:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Larry Craig (none / 0)

Well, I guess extreme civil liberties types aren't altogether extinct. That's a good thing, because it helps to have points of view expressed to the left of where you are. That helps to keep the boundaries of progressive discourse acceptable to the mainstream from receding.

I never thought there was anything wrong with the sting. The cops are just doing what they're supposed to do. And I think the cop was proceeding in a fairly restrained fashion, since he could have put off the arrest to have Craig compromise himself further.

It's funny that you note that Craig must have visited that rest room before. It hadn't occurred to me that he would visit his state often, and then take the same route when doing so.

I can't believe that he is still issuing explicit denials that he is not gay. He's pretty old; he's just continuing in his old habits on that score. The article in the Idaho Statesman mentions that they could find one college girl friend of about a year, and she said that they never so much as held hands! And Craig claims that there was another, more serious, girl friend, but no one can find her because he won't give out her name. I can't believe he is trying to go on with this fiction when no one can find a significant woman in his life other than his wife, with whom he has not had any children. He even says things like, "I have never hit on any men." He never bothers to add, "or women for that matter"!

Given all that, I don't think that anyone, left or right, thinks that his denials on this score are credible. Personally, I'd like to see him run again, but he will probably be talked out of it.

Republicans are like fetuses: both are incapable of thought. That's why Republicans are against abortion.

by Alexander on Wed Aug 29th, 2007 at 06:38:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Larry Craig | 43 comments (43 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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