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Tearooms & Sympathy: On Larry Craig | 11 comments (11 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Tearooms & Sympathy: On Larry Craig (none / 1)

sorry, T. i don't agree. this isn't about larry and that poor, dark closet he's trapped in, although you better people can worry about that too. the issue is about icky, rape-culture mindsets in the authoritarian party. please read my post and the selection from the police report detailing that this wasn't just some 'randon sting' on some poor old guy trapped in 1950s denial-land.

and you live close enough to it to see it up close too, T. DC is jam packed with Hawt Young Men who will come to your house, discretely and for a reasonable fee, and take care of your needs. a rich and powerful guy like larry has no excuse for acting like a creepy predator in public. none. being gay has nothing to do with it.

by chicago dyke (anheduanna at yahoo.com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 11:13:24 AM EST

Re: Tearooms (none / 1)

I don't know that Terrance was saying this sting was unjustified, but I do agree with your take on this.

I'll go even further.

Even in the 50's and 60's when there were no legal places for gays to assemble and socialize, it was totally out of line for people to use public restrooms. In fact, I can't really think of anything more destructive to tolerance that that practice.

Craig clearly comes out of that generation and we can have some measure of sympathy for the difficulties gay men went through and still go through...but it doesn't translate to any sympathy for turning a bathroom into a bathhouse.

by BooMan on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 11:58:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tearooms & Sympathy: On Larry Craig (none / 1)

I think you're being quick to dismiss the long-term effects on a community of people of being told that their very existence is perverted and worthy of -- well, insert nastiness here. As lesbians, sometimes I think it's been very lucky for us that the culture at large has tended to ignore our existence through most of history (because what women do is unimportant, you know) -- that has its problems too, of course, but they're different.

I would guess, even currently, that a good 2/3 of the gay men who were my regular customers at the gay bookstore for years had incredibly deep-seated internalized homophobia that showed itself in varying ways (not all like this, but often in subtler "I'm gay but I hate faggots too" kinds of ways). These were gay men who were secure enough with the idea to come to a gay bookstore -- to actually self-identify as gay, which is well beyond the kind of situation of somebody like Craig. Could he have found somebody to take to a motel room? Sure, but that requires a certain level of self-acceptance that I see no sign of here, a level of self-acceptance that is extremely hard-won for most of us and that is nearly impossible for some people to reach for whatever reason.

While I'm not trying to excuse the tearooms, I also think that when you've got a situation in which a decent number of people have actually internalized that they are "perverts", you're likely going to end up with this sort of thing. I think it's far too simple to blame it on rape-culture.

The question isn't "is it appropriate to have sex in the public restroom", BTW. I don't think anybody is particularly defending that.

by Spit (spit36@gmx.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 12:21:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Tearooms & Sympathy: On Larry Craig | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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