Booman Tribune ~ Comments ~ Do We REALLY Hate Hillary Clinton This Much?

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Do We REALLY Hate Hillary Clinton This Much? | 42 comments (42 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Do We REALLY Hate Hillary Clinton This Much? (4.00 / 3)

I actually really used to like Hillary. This was before she became a politician. She seems doomed to be the kind of politician I hate. Having James Carville's hand up her backside moving her mouth certainly doesn't help her AFAIC.

One thing I learned shopping for used cars is that if they know you aren't willing to leave without That Car you will never get the deal you want/deserve. If they know you are really willing to walk away the advantage shifts to your side. Democrats have been playing us that way for YEARS. I know I am going to work against Hillary in the primary. But, I'm probably part of a very small minority of Democrats who isn't sure, even, if he would vote for Hillary in the GE. As important to me as electing Democrats is - just as important is changing the political "game". Hillary is the antithesis of changing the political game. A shift is just beginning to occur. And, I'm not so bent on electing Democrats that I'm willing to turn the game back over to the old consultants and power brokers in Washington.

But, that's just me.

by Demetrius on Tue Aug 7th, 2007 at 04:37:14 PM EST

Is it a "very small" minority of Dems... (none / 1)

who aren't sure they would vote for Hillary in the GE? It's a minority, sure, but I don't think it's very small. I, for one, belong to that minority.

I voted for Kerry in 2004, but I think that's the last time I'm going to vote for Republican Lite for president. I too am sick of Democrats playing us in the way you so accurately describe.

If the Dem establishment became convinced that their base will stop voting Dem when it is given "centrist" candidates, then maybe it will stop playing this game.

And I suspect that that's why there's so much antipathy to Hillary in the netroots. It's not just her support for the war or her haughtiness: it's also that, with her candidacy, they're trying to do it to us again. Because, clearly, she is THEIR candidate, that is, the candidate of the ruling elite.

I would be very pleased that if Hillary won the nomination, the majority of the netroots didn't support her, contrary to how it fell into line with Kerry. That would demonstrate the independence of the netroots. If Hillary gets nominated and the netroots fall into line once more, the Dem establishment will just continue ignoring us.

Arthur writes that "she is saying, apparently,... that it is not 'the system itself' that is fucked up." That's what one would expect her to say, because her candidacy is a prime example of how it is precisely the system itself that is fucked up.

Republicans are like fetuses: both are incapable of thought. That's why Republicans are against abortion.

by Alexander on Tue Aug 7th, 2007 at 06:38:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is it a "very small" minority (none / 1)

It was Bill that said "fall in love in the primary, and fall in line in the general." The problem is that they are not willing to let us fall in love in the primaries, anymore. Earlier and earlier we are expected to give up on what/whom WE want and support the Presumptive Nominee.

We get all this "It's a done deal...", "He/She's inevitable", "There's no point in voting for anyone else.", "There's no point in building anything but a shoe shop... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe_Event_Horizon " crap before the primary. We got stuck with Kerry the last time and we bent over and took it for the Team. Never again!

by Demetrius on Tue Aug 7th, 2007 at 06:54:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is it a "very small" minority (none / 1)

It's like they're thinking: you get to elect the president and Congress, but we get to determine the choices you'll have. And this is related to the Dems' refusal to go ahead with impeachment: both reflect a profound aversion to letting the people have their way.

The culture inside the Beltway is profoundly anti-democratic. I have heard Richard Posner give a talk in which he bluntly said that the US does not have a participatory democracy, that the only input citizens have on the working of the government is voting every two years, and that this is a good thing, because governing is best left to the professionals. And that is how all the ruling elite thinks. Their attitude is completely different than what is taught in civics classes, and how most people think about American democracy. It is as if there are two versions: the official, public one, and the secret one know only to the elite that actually runs things.

Up until now, it has only been radicals like Noam Chomsky who believe that the American political system is set up in such a way as to give the people no real influence or control over the government. But it now looks like this understanding is spreading down the political spectrum, because the democratic deficit has been getting so much worse.

Republicans are like fetuses: both are incapable of thought. That's why Republicans are against abortion.

by Alexander on Tue Aug 7th, 2007 at 08:02:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

they're counting on this (none / 1)

to put them over the top...a dangerous under-estimation of the volatility of the political climate beyond the beltway, imo.

via gallup clik to enlarge

and this: ...other data showing Clinton is growing less unacceptable to voters inside and outside her party as the campaign progresses. What started out as nearly 50 percent of voters saying that they would never vote for her has diminished..

l haven't decided whether of not l would hold my nose and vote for her if she gets the nomination, but without reservation, l will not finance, nor work for her campaign, and will support another candidate, as yet undetermined, in the primaries.

lTMF'sA

the revolution will not be televised...

by dada on Tue Aug 7th, 2007 at 07:21:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do We REALLY Hate Hillary Clinton This Much? | 42 comments (42 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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