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Escape from Gaza | 32 comments (32 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Escape from Gaza (none / 0)

yes, but for all that talk of Arab solidarity and all the concern for the Palestinians, the history of the region shows that the Lebanese, Jordanians, and Egyptians have treated the Palestinians with just as much contempt and disregard as the Israelis, which is one of the reasons that the United States is resented for allying with the leadership of those countries. Until we understand that, we won't fully understand why there are terrorists from those countries trying to kill us.

by BooMan on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 08:21:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Escape from Gaza (none / 1)

I don't disagree with your analysis Boo, just that Israel is wrong for treating the Palestinians the way they do.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

by Steven D on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 08:34:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Escape from Gaza (none / 0)

On that I agree completely. Although I will say that the rocket attacks are ineffectual and stupid.

by BooMan on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 08:39:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Escape from Gaza (4.00 / 2)

This opinion may sound counterintuitive, but one has to agree here with Jeff Halper's analysis that Israel is opting for "managed conflict" over peace, because it intends to annex, in some way, possibly through the bantustan concept, Judea and Samaria, the remaining territories comprising old King David's empire. You might call it the Begin plan, which is actually accepted by all major Israeli political parties (Likud, Kadima, and Labor, none of which conceive of a Palestinian state in the West Bank). Jeff Halper, by the way, is former professor of anthropology at Ben Gurion University and founder of the peace org, Israel Committee Against House Demolition.

Israel needs those Hamas rockets to continue in order to stall any peace efforts and eventually to nullify them as a consequence of the "security" meme: that Hamas will eventually take over the West Bank if a Palestinian state were ever to exist as a sovereign nation, and destroy Israel. It is of course total bullshit, but that is what we and the world have been getting from Israel for the past 40, nay 60 years.

If Hamas were to stop its rockets voluntarily, another red herring would be invoked to avoid a real two state solution and the occupation would just continue. As a measure of the deception Israel is willing to take on, one needs only to recall that Israel aided the early development of Hamas as a counter to Fatah (formerly the PLO) and derail its efforts to achieve a two state solution early on. It was Arafat actually who first intimated acceptance of Israel in the 1980s. That was dangerous to Israel's colonial plans.

by shergald on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 09:11:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Managed conflict over peace (4.00 / 2)

That sounds about right.

After all, as bad as the rocket attacks are (and let's face it, no one would want katushas landing in their neighborhoods), if Israel had a working relationship with the civil authorities in Gaza that could have been eliminated. IF THEY WANTED TO. The Israelis would prefer weak, desperate enemies all around them to be "threatening" but ultimately no real threat. Sort of like America's foreign policy.

It would require some kind of admission by both parties of each others' positions and needs.

by Bob In Pacifica on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 09:41:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

From Truthdig, this morning. (none / 1)

Best news Israel could ever ask for.

Chris Hedges on Gaza "The Lessons of Violence" -- The former New York Times Middle East bureau chief warns that the actions that led to the humanitarian crisis in Gaza will not bring peace to Israel but will instead create a new generation of Palestinian militants.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080121_the_lessons_of_violence/

Israel does not want peace; it want land, and has avoided every peace effort made by Arab countries since the 1950s for that reason. Since 1967, and especially since the late 70s, its occupation/colonial efforts spoke for themselves. In 2002 and again in 2006, the Arab League comprising 22 nations offered Israel full recognition in return for a Palestinian state. Refused. In 2003, under a moderate government, the Iranians, through the Swiss, offered Israel the same thing. Refused. In 2000, at Camp David the Palestinians would have accepted a two state solution, except that Israel refused (or under Barak was unable) to dismantle a single Israel village, town, or city built in the West Bank since 1967 under the euphemism, "settlements," regardless of the other issues at stake.

Nothing could please Israel more than a new generation of Palestinian militants to fight for Palestinian freedom and self-determination. It will aid in postponing any future unwanted peace deal.

by shergald on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 09:59:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Escape from Gaza (none / 0)

while what you said is true, it's also true that the egyptian government is particularly unlikely to do much for hamas-ruled gaza. hamas is an offshoot of the muslim brotherhood (it's often referred to as the israeli chapter of the group) and the MB is the main and largest opposition to mubarak's regime in egypt. which is why the group is currently banned.

it's not that arab states have any concerted ill will towards the palestinian people. on the contrary they all use the rhetoric of palestinian liberation all the time. but they're all also quite willing to use palestinians are a football for their own political gains, and don't have any problem with making palestinians suffer if it suits the interest of their respective governments.

by upyernoz (upyernoz [at] yahoo [dot] com) on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 01:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Escape from Gaza (none / 0)

How is this really much different that the situation within Israel?

by BooMan on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 01:17:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Escape from Gaza (none / 0)

in two ways:

1st, israel doesn't talk up the suffering of the palestinians as i described above.

2nd, because israel, unlike israel's neighbors, has an actual conflict with the palestinians over land rights. egypt, jordan, syria and lebanon (and to a greater and lesser degree, most other arab states) regularly use the palestinian cause cynically, to deflect criticism of their own regime, etc. on israel's part, they are not using someone else's conflict to avoid dealing with local issues, for israel, the palestinian issue is their own local issue.

by upyernoz (upyernoz [at] yahoo [dot] com) on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 05:33:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Escape from Gaza (none / 1)

And Egypt Government has been admirably paid.

Banned but hopefully not forgotten.

by Mattes on Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 at 02:31:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Escape from Gaza | 32 comments (32 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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