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Clinton's Broken Promise | 32 comments (32 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

I want a new primary. (none / 0)

The biggest argument (other than money) against letting Michigan re-vote is that our state party broke the rules, and we shouldn't be rewarded by getting to have a do-over that is even more important (at least from a media perspective) than our usual primary ever would be.

I can understand that, but I think it is very short sighted and a bit petty.

Obama and Clinton are very closely matched in Michigan. They would both have to campaign here quite heavily, and a great deal of party infrastructure would be built in the process.

Michigan can go either red or blue in the fall, and isn't exactly a lightweight when it comes to electoral votes. Getting a head start on building a real GOTV effort here would pay real dividends in the fall.

Tengo un sueño.

by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 11:34:32 AM EST

Re: I want a new primary. (none / 1)

I think there should be a re-vote, but how do you handle that given the open-primary status in Michigan? Especially since it appears that there is quite a bit of Republican crossover voting for Hillary per right-wing talk radio suggestions that she would be easier to beat in the fall?

NO way in hell do I think the earlier results should stand. And anyone who is claiming that those results are fair or accurate is just an out-and-out liar.

by CabinGirl on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 11:52:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I want a new primary. (4.00 / 2)

Well, since the do-over would be only on the Democratic side, it would seem the most fair way to do it would be (assuming they still have the voter rolls) to not allow anyone who voted in the Republican primary in January to vote in the do-over. It might disenfranchise a few people who crossed over to vote for Mittens because they didn't want to vote 'uncommitted', but I can't think of a better way.

And I totally agree regarding the earlier results. They are a traveshammockery.

Tengo un sueño.

by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 12:02:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I want a new primary. (none / 0)

Are you saying that only the people who voted in January should be allowed to vote again? What about the people who stayed home because they knew the primary didn't count?

If they're going to do this by mail, then I think the ballots should go out to all registered Democrats (regardless of how they voted in January) and Independants who chose to vote Democratic in January. At that point in the campaign, I don't know how many crossover Republican votes there were but I'm guessing not enough to make a difference. Any Dems who crossed over to vote in the Repub primary should just be forgiven considering the circumstances.

Just joking but maybe the new ballot should only have Obama, Edwards, Biden and Dodd on it so Hillary people have to choose "uncommitted." har

by sjct on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 12:21:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I want a new primary. (4.00 / 2)

No, I'm saying everyone should be able to vote except the people who voted in the January Republican primary. So anyone who voted in the Democratic primary, or didn't vote at all, would be eligible.

Tengo un sueño.

by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 12:33:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I want a new primary. (4.00 / 2)

I think the idea is that people who have already voted in the Republican primary should not be allowed to vote in any Democratic do-over, precisely to avoid the kind of chicanery that Rush is trying to stir up. Everyone else who's eligible, including those who voted in the unsanctioned Democratic primary, should be allowed to vote this time.

I think this is a good approach, personally; the only problem I can see is if there is a situation similar to that here in Washington. Most of the Democrats here didn't bother to vote in the primary because only the caucus votes counted toward delegate selection on the Democratic side. If you did vote in the primary, though, you had to sign an oath stating that you did not participate in any other primary or caucus in February. One of my favorite local bloggers (Goldy over at horsesass.org) did some fact-checking and found that although the law mandating the oath is on the books, there appears to be no punishment for violating that law, so he reasoned that Democrats who had caucused could vote in the Republican primary and screw around with the vote count, literally with impunity. So if there's going to be a revote and anyone who voted in the Republican primary would be excluded, there needs to be some kind of teeth to the exclusion (e.g. prosecution for vote fraud).

I'm doing a panel on Blogs and the Media at VCon, Oct 4, Vancouver BC

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 12:41:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I want a new primary. (4.00 / 2)

a re-vote unlikely to happen in time for the convention.

I just posted in another diary on the apparent required DOJ pre-approval and legal hurdles:

DOJ's Pre-clearing required for any re-vote and or voting process change.

I suggest split the combined states 50/50 but deduct 40% from Hillary's take - her penalty for breaking the rules. She did not take her name off the Michigan ballot and her surrogates aggressively campaigned on her behalf in Florida.

Gawd, she flew into FL on the day of the vote telling voters she'd fight to have delegates seated.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 12:28:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I want a new primary. (none / 0)

One idea that hasn't been discussed is using a public opinion poll. The only problem with the idea is that it usually requires a telephone. One way to solve this problem would be to use the mail services for people without phones.

The census bureau has proposed using statistical sampling, but the Republicans have blocked this effort and have cited the "enumerated" language of the constitution. It's a specious argument, and the only reason it's argued is because a sampling would account for many people normally missed.

It is the best way of reaching a close approximation of voter preferences, and at a low cost.

"..the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. .. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked.." - Goering

by colinski on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 05:17:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I want a new primary. (none / 0)

If I'm reading you right, you're in MI. I thought I read somewhere that, in addition to a big African-American component to the electorate, that there's also a sizeable Muslim-American segment (which of course, Bush long ago gave the finger to). Is that the case? And if so where do you think they stand on Obama/Clinton?

by Sprocket77 on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 12:44:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I want a new primary. (none / 0)

Yep, that is the case. Dearborn, MI (near Detroit) has the 2nd largest population of Arabs in the world outside the Middle East and is sometimes called the Muslim capital of the U.S.

If there were a real primary here, Obama would destroy Clinton in the Detroit area and the bigger college towns (Ann Arbor, East Lansing). The west side of the state is pretty heavily conservative, and I think Hillary would do well among Democrats there.

I think it would be close, but I think Obama would win. One other factor is that our governor, Jennifer Granholm, is DLC through and through and has endorsed Hillary. So that could bring some more votes her way.

Tengo un sueño.

by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 12:56:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I want a new primary. (none / 0)

That's a VERY exciting prospect. Thanks for the reply.

by Sprocket77 on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 01:07:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The students I teach (none / 0)

I teach high school in a neighborhood that is heavily Muslim and heavily African-American and they are pretty excited about Obama.

Visit me at Tunnel Traveller

by Teacher Toni (tacoralatyahoodotcom) on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 02:37:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I want a new primary. (none / 0)

The reason why we're at this late date without firmer plans for do-overs is that there has been a lot of dicking around by the state parties who believed that they could get their original primaries to count, especially after Hillary's 180-degree turn/flipflop/broken pledge/lie.

There are problems with all proposed solutions. Money, time, legalities. There won't be a new primary, I don't think. Mail-ins? Maybe. I don't think caucuses can be done. If all else fails, I'd say split the delegates down the middle so that they can participate in the convention without giving one side an advantage.

by Bob In Pacifica on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 10:03:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton's Broken Promise | 32 comments (32 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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