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A Sincere Answer | 100 comments (100 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 1)

let me get this straight.

are you now disqualifying Sebelius from the veepstakes because of her gender?

by BooMan on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 08:30:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 0)

yep

by maryb2004 on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 08:33:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 0)

that seems unfair to Sebelius (and several other worthy candidates), but if that is how you see the strategery you are free to see it that way.

by BooMan on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 08:41:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (4.00 / 2)

Of course it's unfair. But politics isn't fair.

I want to see Obama win. I think it would be disastrous for him to pick any woman who is not Hillary as his running mate. I don't think he should pick her either, but he can't not pick her and then pick another woman.

In the same way that she can't not pick him and then pick another black person.

It would be seen as a statement that people in the identity category of the principal opponent are fungible. It would be seen as an insult. No matter how qualified that person was.

by maryb2004 on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 08:47:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 0)

OK.

I see what you're saying here, now. I'm not sure i agree but i see your line of thought.

If Obama picked an obviously qualified person that had a way with words I think people would get over the maneuver pretty quickly. It would all depend on if he picked quality.

by Bright Creature (kelpie (no spam filler) . b @ gmail . com) on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 08:52:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 1)

The problem, Maryb, is that Hillary Clinton has eliminated herself as a Veep for Obama. She has been running a campaign that says that the black man is not competent to be President. She can't run with him anymore.

Remember? He had only a speech in 2002 but she and John McCain have all that experience. I'd say now she's got a better chance of being McCain's VP than Obama's.

And it's her choice by running that desperate campaign she ran the last couple of weeks.

In any case, if you are offended by Obama's Veep choice, so be it.

by Bob In Pacifica on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 09:06:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

huh? (none / 0)

Her campaign said a black man is not competent to be President? I must have missed that.

by sciencetype on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 09:08:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: huh? (none / 0)

The black man.

I presume she would be able to be another black man's Vice President, if there was another black man who led in the delegate count. If she didn't say he wasn't qualified.

by Bob In Pacifica on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 09:45:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 0)

Well, I said above that I didn't think he should pick Hillary as his running mate so I'm not sure where we disagree.

Are you saying that he should pick a woman who is not Hillary so that the Hillary supporters will feel better? If so, I disagree with you.

by maryb2004 on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 09:10:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 0)

It'd be seen as an insult to the Clintons, and it take the mantle of representing feminist aspirations away from Hillary. So, yes, it would be insulting. To the Clintons. And to those that really really identify with her and them.

Personally, that makes it all the more delectable to me. But only a tiny percentage of people have that kind of identification with Clinton personally. It wouldn't be seen as an insult by most people at all.

By November, low information voters will have forgotten a Clinton was ever on the ticket at all.

by BooMan on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 09:06:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 0)

You are letting your Hillary Hate cloud your judgment.

You actually want to insult Hillary and her supporters? Right. Because that's the way to get your candidate elected in November. uh huh.

So basically you do want to use Kathleen Sebelius. You don't think she's the most qualified person to be VP. You want Obama to pick her to stick it to those damn Hillary supporters. It's not her - it's that she's a woman. Any woman. They are all fungible to you.

Lovely.

by maryb2004 on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 09:17:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 0)

wow.

I said none of that.

I personally would relish seeing the Clintons relegated to the Land of Obscuria, but that has nothing to do with why I think he should strongly consider a qualified woman. I think he should because it will help unite the party, even if it pisses a small percentage of people off.

by BooMan on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 09:33:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 0)

well, that's how I interpreted this:

So, yes, it would be insulting. To the Clintons. And to those that really really identify with her and them.
Personally, that makes it all the more delectable to me.

I'll take your word on it that my interpretation was wrong.

I disagree it would help unite the party. We're back to the beginning. We disagree.

by maryb2004 on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 09:36:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 1)

Even if she were very qualified?

I'm having trouble seeing your argument. If the chosen VP running mate were a woman and worth her salt then they could run her on her own merits, instead of always playing the gender card.

As a woman and a feminist myself, I've never understood the notion that we have to elect -any- woman to the job for there to be movement toward equality. If the woman ain't qualified or even if she isn't the best candidate for the job.. then she shouldn't get it. Period.

But now it seems to me that your saying it's Hillary or no woman at all. Did she become the "everywoman" in this election?

At the very least, it seems that there's a "either or" dichotomy being set up here. Either we elect a woman or we irrevocably piss off women. Or, elect a black man or risk alienating the black vote.

It would probably be much easier, and in the long run smarter, to vote our minds and hearts and then get pragmatic about whoever does win the primary. Neither one of them would be any worse than McCain

by Bright Creature (kelpie (no spam filler) . b @ gmail . com) on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 08:48:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 0)

I'm thinking of it only as a political matter not as a matter of a woman being qualified. Truthfully I have no idea if Kathleen Sebelius is qualified. I know she gives boring speeches. That's about it. She may be qualified but why is she more qualified than someone else? I have no idea.

As a political matter, Obama needs the women who voted for Hillary to vote for him. She isn't everywoman to those women - she's the exact opposite. She's herself. They believe she is the best person for the job. They like her. They probably would vote for him, after a post-nomination cooling off period. Most voters do. But I think as a political matter that he risks alienating them if he appears to pick a candidate because she's a woman. As if picking a woman would appease them because any woman is the same as Hillary. They aren't out there for any woman. They are voting for Hillary.

In a political campaign you don't take risks like that with a large voting block.

by maryb2004 on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 09:05:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 1)

I don't think you should discount how many women wouldn't want McCain picking Supreme Court justices. I know that will be my prime motivator if Clinton is the nominee.

"Life is always better with clean pants."

by CabinGirl on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 09:31:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 0)

I hope that's everyone's motivator. But it won't be.

I'm a single issue voter in November. That's why I want to maximize the vote for the Dem candidate from all quarters. To make sure he/she wins.

by maryb2004 on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 09:34:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (4.00 / 2)

One of my friends at work told me that he wouldn't be able to vote for Hillary in the general. I told him, here, take this into the booth with you.

He changed his mind and grudgingly said he'd vote for Hillary if it came to it. But that he would print that out and take it with him to make sure he stayed on the straight and narrow.

Tengo un sueño.

by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 09:40:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Supreme Court (none / 0)

I'm with Anonymous in rikyrah's Jack and Jill Politics post on this one.

For crying out loud the Supreme Court is so far to the right already, that it does not matter who is elected, its going to be "conservative and right wing' for the next 50 years.

I've never bought the Supreme Court as a reason to vote for Clinton. It's not like they're fair and not conservative now. No matter who she picks, and I guarantee it won't be a liberal jurist, we'll still have a conservative Supreme Court. So what then? We get to play Degrees of Conservatism? Fun.

~~~THIS SPACE FOR RENT~~~

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 09:59:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Supreme Court (none / 1)

I think we are just going to have to disagree on this one then. The court does have a conservative lean right now, but the next justices in line for retirement / death are part of the more liberal wing and are all that is keeping it even semi-sane. There is no way that Hillary would appoint anyone even close to as conservative as John McCain would.

Of course none of this is likely to matter anyway, since Hillary isn't going to be the Democratic nominee.

Tengo un sueño.

by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 10:08:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I know people disagree (none / 0)

I don't see the so-called liberal judges being that liberal or that useful. For the past 14 years, I've been utterly disgusted by the verdicts handed down by the Supreme Court, watching was few real rights and recourses I had dwindle down to almost nothing. That was with so-called liberal judges. I don't pretend that the legal system I would navigate would be the same as the one you would have to navigate. I look at it with that jaundiced eye.

I told you I'm a cynic.

~~~THIS SPACE FOR RENT~~~

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 10:42:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Liberal" justices (none / 0)

I don't believe that we currently have any truly "liberal" justices on the SC. But, The Alitos and the Roberts are so far right that the center looks left.

McCain will continue that trend.

Visit me at Tunnel Traveller

by Teacher Toni (tacoralatyahoodotcom) on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 06:46:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Supreme Court (none / 0)

Well, I couldn't disagree more on any issue.

But since it becomes academic if Obama gets the nomination there's no point in going into all the reasons. If, however, Hillary gets the nomination you're gonna get tired of me talking about it. :)

by maryb2004 on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 10:23:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 0)

You're probably right.

IN any case i couldn't see him picking any other woman besides Clinton anyway. It would be too much like a slap in Hillary's face.

by Bright Creature (kelpie (no spam filler) . b @ gmail . com) on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 09:33:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 0)

What if Obama chose Janet Napolitano, Gov. of Arizona, for VP? She would bring clout in southwestern states and would complete a historic ticket.

Personally, I'd like to see VA Senator Jim Webb as a running mate for Obama. His style contrasts nicely with Obama. He wouldn't mind mixing it up with the Republicans and he'd bring a nice number of electoral votes with VA, a swing state.

by SaltyDawg on Fri Mar 7th, 2008 at 09:53:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Sincere Answer (none / 0)

The woman who first shares the WH had better not deliver to her gender what Alberto Gonzales delivered to the people of his heritage.

Obama's choice of a VP, woman or not, will receive cudos and support the minute they deliver good govt. at that juncture no one will whisper they miss HC

by mainsailset on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 08:57:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A Sincere Answer | 100 comments (100 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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