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Understanding Victory | 53 comments (53 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Understanding Victory (none / 0)

A great post, BooMan.

And it'll fall on deaf ears. The damage has been done. Obama is more the enemy than McCain is to millions of Clinton backers. Susie Madrak's post really shows the problem here, the entire time it was Obama's fault for pursuing African-Americans and not Clinton's fault at all.

To a lot of hard core Clintonistas this thing has been about race. They see Obama, they go "Look, let's be honest here. Racism in America is alive and well. I know my friends and co-workers and people I go to worship with and parents of my kid's friends and the neighbors down the street, and they will not vote for a black man for President".

When they say "Obama isn't electable!" they mean "He's Black. He can't win because of racism. McCain will be President because of this, you idiots. Don't you want to WIN in November? Why can't you see that only Hillary can beat McCain?"

They truly believe this. They are tying themselves in logical Gordian knots to do everything but avoid actually saying the truth, that they think Obama will get crushed due to good old-fashioned American racism.

So BooMan, I respect your efforts to reach out to our fellow Dems, because after all we're on the same side. But it's not going to happen. The era that a lot of the hardcore Clintonistas came from is the era of racism, and they don't believe it will ever change, and operate cynically under that assumption.

Which of course assures it will never change.

I think they're wrong, of course.

But I'm black. What would I know about racism in America?

More at Zandar vs. The Stupid.

by Zandar1 on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 02:17:27 PM EST

Re: Understanding Victory (none / 1)

Zandar, I agree with most of what you're saying about racism in America. I just wouldn't put all of it on all, or even most, Clinton supporters. There is about six months between now and the November election. At some point the Clinton supporters will have to decide between McCain and Obama. I think that Obama is the candidate who can speak reasonably to all Americans. Some won't listen but I suspect a majority will.

by Bob In Pacifica on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 02:47:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Understanding Victory (none / 0)

I believe Zandar is correct. The Excuse Machine has been wheeled out and people are saying all sorts of silly things.

That post from riverdaughter is still annoying me.

John Mccain Called his wife WHAT??

by brendan on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 02:55:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Understanding Victory (none / 0)

I had to bite my tounge on that one too. I still don't get how they think that Obama won using racial division. It's like we've been watching two different primaries.

If they want to vote for McCain because of bruised egos it's their right and I'm not going to try and stop them. We're all grown-ups here, aren't we?

by Fledermaus on Thu May 8th, 2008 at 03:21:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Understanding Victory (none / 0)

I wonder how much of this is about racism and how much is just the (understandable) fear of change. And I don't mean change in the campaign slogan kind of way, but the fundamental shifting of the power structure in the party. Any of us who have been through a "major restructuring" in our workplaces have witnessed it. People desire change when they recognize things aren't working but change can be painful and many will work with all their might to resist big changes. Think of middle managers fighting to protect "their turf" in a corporate restructuring. They're afraid of losing the little empires they've built, regardless of whether those empires even serve a productive purpose anymore.

Fortunately, I think we're lucky to have Obama, an inspirational figure, leading the change. Over the next few months, he, along with the Clintons, need to assure everyone that it's all going to be okay and that these changes are necessary for the future of the party. Once people realize that they are not being targeted as enemies within the party and that they can serve a meaningful role in the new structure, they will either join the new team or get out of the way.

Racism does still exist, that's for sure. In some places it's alot worse than in others. But structural changes with an organization can be as scary to some people as confronting any racial or other prejudices they may be hiding behind. Unfortunately for them, some are going to have to confront both fears at the same time if they want to keep a place at the table. When we win this thing and we show that our diversity is actually our strength, they'll see that it's all been worth it.

by RandyH on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 03:45:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Understanding Victory (none / 0)

Good points there, Randy.

Meanwhile, Jake Tapper spells out Hillary's To-Do List.

Win in West Virginia next week -- dispatch Bill asap

Go on to win in Puerto Rico and Kentucky, racking up popular votes as much as humanly possible (need to have popular vote argument to make to Super-Ds)

Try to pick off one of the three remaining "Obama" primaries -- Oregon, Montana or South Dakota

Argue that Obama should have won Indiana; a post-game recalibration of expectations

Point to ugly exit poll data from Indiana showing 50% of Clinton supporters say they will not vote for Obama in the Fall

Push back on Obama "achievement" in Indiana that he lost white women by only 61%-39% -- as opposed to larger losses in Pennsylvania and Ohio. Argue: What kind of crazy worldview is this?

Look for more oppo. Another minister? Ayers? When does Rev. Wright's book come out?

MICHIGAN and FLORIDA ...The number 2,025 no longer exists. 2,209...2,209...2,209... Make it a civil rights issue

Push the money thing - Obama outspent us significantly, and yet he cannot put us away

Hard sell to superdelegates. This is going to happen and we have long memories. Stay on the fence.

And all of that gets summed up in this...

11. Pray

More at Zandar vs. The Stupid.

by Zandar1 on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 05:10:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Understanding Victory | 53 comments (53 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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