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Russia is Pushing for Regime Change | 40 comments (40 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Russia is Pushing for Regime Change (4.00 / 5)

At this point, that Russia is pushing south into Georgia proper is just a rumor. The NY Times has backtracked on the article you link to, as I show here.

Russia intervening in its neighbor Georgia -- whose secession from the Soviet Union was not legal by the way -- is a case of "our enemies run[ning] roughshod over us"? What are you smoking?

In case you haven't heard or have forgotten, the Cold War is over. We are no longer in an ideological life-or-death struggle with Russia. Russia is just a regional superpower which, after Yeltsin, has declined to become one of our client states. Since it has refused to become our client state, it is our enemy, according to the prevailing wisdom of the Washington foreign policy establishment.

But you don't live in Washington. So how did you manage to drink the Washington Kool Aid? (Sorry to mix drug metaphors.)

Republicans are like fetuses: both are incapable of thought. That's why Republicans are against abortion.

by Alexander on Mon Aug 11th, 2008 at 12:26:39 AM EST

Re: Russia is Pushing for Regime Change (none / 0)

you really have a very idealistic and naive view of the world. Do you seriously not understand what is happening in Georgia? We've been treating Russia as our enemy for at least 10 solid years. Whether we should have done that is a completely separate issue. If the Russians are demanding regime change as the price of withdrawal you can be sure this isn't going to be settled in a way acceptable to the West. Russia is flexing. And our entire setup with Azerbaijan and Georgia is in jeopardy. You interpret this as a friendly disagreement?

It seems like the left has become seized with myopia where if Bush had anything to do with it it must be bad and can't be considered US policy.

Georgia had the third biggest contingent in Iraq from among the coalition of the willing. They were a NATO candidate. Now watch. Watch what Russia does. Because they aren't going to leave things the way they were. I'll grant you that they biggest losers here are going to be some Western oil execs and people that worry about prestige. But we're being humiliated and BP's property is at stake. Expect things to escalate.

by BooMan on Mon Aug 11th, 2008 at 12:40:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Russia is Pushing for Regime Change (4.00 / 3)

I don't expect things to escalate as far as the US goes, if for no other reason than that Israel doesn't have a stake in Georgia. Russia complained to Israel about its supplying arms to Georgia, and Israel relented. As Perry Anderson has pointed out, even under Bush, US foreign policy tends to be rational, except where Israel is concerned. (You see, I confirm your view that I am a leftist, since who else but leftists reads the New Left Review?)

The US has no business being in Azerbaijan or Georgia. I say that not because I am a leftist, but because I am an American patriot. Not dismantling NATO after the collapse of the Soviet Union was to make the decisive move that from now on, the US is to be an empire and not a republic, thus realizing the worst fears of the Founders.

Republicans are like fetuses: both are incapable of thought. That's why Republicans are against abortion.

by Alexander on Mon Aug 11th, 2008 at 12:58:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Russia is Pushing for Regime Change (none / 0)

Heh.

We have a tremendous amount of business in Azerbaijan and Georgia, which is exactly the source of this dispute. The Caucuses have been on fire for the last 16 years precisely because we have decided to invest in the Caspian Basin. And we became an empire in 1946-7 when we assumed responsibility for Greece and Turkey. It's not a new development.

by BooMan on Mon Aug 11th, 2008 at 01:04:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Russia is Pushing for Regime Change (4.00 / 3)

I guess you are not aware of the distinction between a hegemon and an imperial power, which maintains its control over other states purely through force? In 1946-7, the US was a hegemon, not an imperial power.

Russia could live with the US as hegemon. But the US didn't let Russia join the game.

Republicans are like fetuses: both are incapable of thought. That's why Republicans are against abortion.

by Alexander on Mon Aug 11th, 2008 at 01:27:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Russia is Pushing for Regime Change (4.00 / 2)

"If Russia is demanding regime change as a price of withdrawal..."

But where is Russia demanding regime change? In the media, not in Russia, not coming out of the mouths of Russian officials but coming out of Georgian officials and their friends in the west.

Georgia misplayed the game badly. They thought they could take back South Ossetia while everyone was paying attention to the Olympics.

Russia mopped them up in South Ossetia, and their infantry seem to have stopped at the border. They bombed all those shiny new weapons systems that Condi brought the Georgians, leaving them to be no threat to the Ossetians or the Russians. Game over.

The southern cordon sanitaire has been shattered.

by Bob In Pacifica on Mon Aug 11th, 2008 at 11:07:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Russia is Pushing for Regime Change (4.00 / 3)

It seems to me that Georgia has been allowing itself to become a client state of the US/Oil Axis via "aid" money and "troop training."

I don't quite get your point; why is US humiliation an issue? We are a bad imperialist state, running roughshod across the globe since 1947. Um, installing GWB/Cheney wasn't an international humiliation already?

Share. Share resources, share delight, share burdens, share the healing. Sharing will bring us back from mass suicide. www.share-international.org

by Isis on Mon Aug 11th, 2008 at 11:18:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Russia is Pushing for Regime Change | 40 comments (40 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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