Booman Tribune





Find textbooks at Alibris!

NOTE: Overstock bests Amazon's prices and is "blue."

THE BOOKS WITH "BUZZ":
______________

Learn the real story behind the WMD in Iraq:

The Way of the World: A Story of Truth and Hope in an Age of Extremism
by Ron Suskind

Read Barack Obama's vision for America:

The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream
by Barack Obama

DaveW recommends:

I Am a Strange Loop
by Douglas Hofstadter

Need some laughs?

I Am America (and So Can You!)
by Stephen Colbert

rae recommends:

Dark Ages America: The Final Phase of Empire
by Morris Berman.

On BooMan’s shelf:

Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln
by Doris Kearns Goodwin

This looks interesting:

Adventure Divas
by Holly Morris

Here’s a good one from
Elizabeth Gilbert:

Eat Pray Love
by Elizabeth Gilbert

"Crash" * Best Motion Picture, Academy Awards * Only $11.79 at Overstock * 2006 SAG Winner, Best Ensemble

Check out
Powell's new section:
NEW FAVORITES

Selected new arrivals at 30% off

Recommended by Indianadem and ejmw:
The Conscience of a Liberal
by Paul Wellstone

From northcountry’s bookshelf:

The New Golden Age:
The Coming Revolution Against
Political Corruption and Economic Chaos
by Ravi Batra

A novel about contractors in Iraq from the woman that runs The Spy That Billed Me:

Outsourced: A Novel
from RJ Hillhouse.


SOTW-120x90
Download Sleeper Cell on iTunes (Better than "24") Download Weeds on iTunes (Hilarious 1/2-hour adult comedy starring Mary-Louise Parker) Download Late Nite with Conan O'Brien on iTunes
John Belushi - SNL
Download South Park on iTunes
Verve Vault

James Hunter - People Gonna Talk:
James Hunter - People Gonna Talk
icon


Great Deals
----- * ^ * -----

Find mystery novels by Nancy Pickard ("Kansas")



Challenging Empire: How People, Governments, and the UN Defy US Power by Phyllis Bennis (interviewed on DN!)


Featured by Keith Olbermann, New (Powell's Sale): Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower by William Blum (whose other books merit serious consideration)


"Explosive" State of War: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration
by James Risen


The book the CIA doesn't want you to read: Jawbreaker: The Attack on Bin Laden and Al Qaeda: A Personal Account by the CIA's Key Field Commander
Larry Johnson's review


BT's all-time best seller:

PERMACULTURE:
A Designers' Manual

$79.95 * Sale: $59.95


Unequal Sisters: A Multicultural Reader in U.S. Women's History (Third Edition)


The Undercover Economist: Exposing Why the Rich Are Rich, the Poor Are Poor And Why You Can Never Buy a Decent Used Car!


The Worst Hard Time: The Untold Story of Those Who Survived the Great American Dust Bowl
by Timothy Egan


Green Press Initiative
----- * ^ * -----


Journalistas: 100 Years of the Best Writing and Reporting by Women Journalists by Eleanor Mills * NYT review


Bury Me Standing: the Gypsies & Their Journey


1491: New Revelations of the Americas before Columbus



Brokeback Mountain
by Annie Proulx
----- * ^ * -----
Check out Powell's
"At The Movies"


Imperial Ambitions: Conversations on the Post-9/11 World by Noam Chomsky (Power & Terror: Post 9-11 Talks)


The Price of Privilege:

How Parental Pressure and
Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of
Disconnected and Unhappy Kids

by Madeline Levine


Save 35-70% on
name brand clothing,
footwear, and outdoor gear
at SierraTradingPost.com

:





We listened to PEN American Center's "State of Emergency" and found 1940s books by Curzio Malaparte only at Alibris. (Selection (MP3) excerpted from "The Skin.")

Alibris - Books You Thought You'd Never Find
Banned Books * Are you a fan of Film Noir, Art House, Documentaries or Hong Kong Action? * Searching for a long-lost children's book or a first printing of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue on vinyl? Find it at Alibris!

:
:
www.Patagonia.com


Display:
I have some mixed thoughts on expressing myself on this topic.  I was just reading some agricultural Eastern philosophy which made an excellent and simple point.  The very short version -- there is no good without bad, and therefore taking sides in a debate to some extent separates one from mere existence and propels one into an artificially created human construct.  So, liking this thought, I suppose I should adopt it an just avoid engaging in this issue.

But on the other hand, I sense a general hegemony that props up religious thought in America, and allows it to seep into the debates on all issues now.  And I am so strongly partisan in my own understanding on this topic -- and I also believe that too few of us from this perspective stand up and say this in open public on a regular basis -- that I'll jump in and say it.  As I did recently in another comment.

It is simple.  And I know many here agree (and equally many probably think it is awful for an atheist to say it out loud).  But there is no evidence for any god.  No evidence for unicorns.  And precious little evidence for the Montauk Monster.  Or, sadly, the Flying Spaghetti Monster.  As rational beings, we should reject the irrational, especially when it starts to get in the way of policy, elections, etc.  For those religiously oriented liberals, soft agnostics, etc., who are unwilling to confront this reality -- I'm afraid that your own willingness to participate in this mass suspension of disbelief with the other religious fundamentalist in this country (with so many truly ridiculous variations on how their particular imaginary sky god takes an active interest in our lives) only encourages this silly debate about religious topics over important issues.

If everyone just started laughing hysterically every time someone mentioned their imaginary friend and his/her/its impact on world events -- then perhaps we could all encourage people to keep their imaginary deities to themselves -- and perhaps CNN would stop assisting in publishing such tripe.

I'm saying that by failing to openly question unsupported, silly religious viewpoints when they are bandied about in public debates, those of us who are full atheists are allowing it to happen.

It is fucking sad that our leader goes to China, and on a worldwide broadcast talks about how China is ready to accept Christianity.  Someday, if that tape survives long enough, and if this planet survives long enough, his words will be studied by future homo sapiens and mused at in the same way we would find it quaint and ridiculous that a Viking thanked Odin after he was successfully raided a village.  It is ridiculous.

Seriously.  Examine your deity -- for those "believers" -- and understand, for crying out loud, that you are nearly as much of an atheist as BostonJoe (and others here) with respect to all other fictional gods that have come before.  As is very popular to say nowadays. We are just atheists about one more god.

I'm one atheist who is just completely fed up with having to respect the views of believers, and being questioned or challenged when we happen to point out that the idea of all gods is kind of stupid.  It is kind of stupid to base any life decision based on a fairy tale.  And I seriously believe the environment of giving open respect to fairy tale worshipers leads to CNNs injecting this junk into a national election.

There.  I feel a lot less zen now.

"Have you no sense of decency, sir. At long last, have you left no sense of decency?" -- Boston Attorney Joseph Welch, taking down Sen. Joseph McCarthy.

by BostonJoe on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 09:11:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Enjoy the way you express yourself Boston Joe.

I suppose if I had to pick an anti-christ, it would be the corporate structure that has been given human rights. An intelligent and amoral structure in which individual humans are subsumed.

The whole religious angle is being brought to us by those who focus on the bottom line - measured in financial quarters. More "circus" than anything, imo. Rejecting the current "circus," without commenting on the structure that is presenting the circus just touches the surface.

You want to touch the third rail? Challenge the corporate structure and capitalism (corporatism) - whooeee - now that is challenging the culture's real religion!

"As rational beings..." - this often strikes me as funny cause I don't see a whole lot of evidence that humans are "rational beings," individually or in groups. Even in those without an imaginary friend ;)

Consider money. It is nothing yet it becomes something because all who come into contact with it agree it has value. An illusion. How rational is that?


Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. (George Carlin)

by tampopo on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 10:03:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't see a whole lot of evidence that humans are "rational beings"...

That strikes me as funny since the essence of a rational being is to demand evidence before believing (and acting).

So what are you, anyway? The Flying Soba Monster?

by no3reed on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 10:14:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe it is the word "evidence" that is confusing.

Humans work to make sense of the world. It has fascinated me to watch little children work to understand words, concepts... Think about trying to explain the difference between a cat and a dog. Yet 3 year olds are able to do this if they are in environments with cats and dogs and older humans saying things like, "See the cat!" Or, "No, that's a dog."

The whole process follows the "scientific method" of hypothesizing (guessing or predicting) then confirming or correcting. We do this with many things. So "evidence" doesn't need to be attached only to "rational."

What is "The Flying Soba Monster?"

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. (George Carlin)

by tampopo on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 10:50:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Evidence" = "reason to believe". (Not necessarily conclusive reason; conclusive evidence = conclusive reason to believe.)

"Rational" = "guided by reason".

These equations are not my invention.

The process you describe, involving the three-year-olds, is what I would call part of the cultivation of rationality (as well as the acquisition, both from the adults and from sensory perception, of reasons to believe this or that).

I suspect their may be some confusion between us that results from your regarding "rational" as meaning something other than (and perhaps more grandiose than) "guided by reason". What do you take the word to mean?

by no3reed on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 11:12:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"I suspect there," not "I suspect their," obviously.

by no3reed on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 11:14:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I associate "rational" with "logical."  And "logical" leads to: "systematic, orderly, coherent." So when someone suggests humans are "rational" I interpret it as, "Humans are systematic, orderly, coherent." Then I consider behaviors of most humans I know, including myself, and it makes me laugh.

Now I know it is possible to learn to think "rationally" and "logically," to be able to "reason." But so often we have "wants" and "needs" that drive us, then we work to cover them or justify them with "reasons," so we can do what we want to do.

I consider "beliefs" much more powerful than "reasons." And we acquire those beliefs, form them from birth onward. Beliefs about self, others, good, bad, right, wrong... well before the frontal lobe of the brain has developed. I'm really talking more about psychology than religion.

Thanks for engaging.

 

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. (George Carlin)

by tampopo on Sun Aug 17th, 2008 at 12:18:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm one atheist who is just completely fed up with having to respect the views of believers, and being questioned or challenged when we happen to point out that the idea of all gods is kind of stupid.

  Remember "A family that prays together is brainwashing the kids." We have all been touched by this brainwashing in some way. Its tough to overcome.

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; now we know that it is bad economics;" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

by Salunga on Sat Aug 16th, 2008 at 10:11:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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