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Post-Debate Thoughts | 75 comments (75 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Post-Debate Thoughts (4.00 / 8)

booman,

I think you nailed this election a long time ago, but then you stopped talking about that particular theme. You said Obama is running the only campaign that a black man could run. I believe that is still true, and I think it is why he seems 'bland' in debates yet soars in speeches.

He has picked a certain style for debates. He absolutely cannot come off as either Angry Black Man or Uppity Negro. This means he has to be more differential than we might prefer. He has to be quiet and calm. It's a 'rope a dope' style. Let the opponent swing hay makers, and come off as reasonable. Yes, it is disappointing that he won't wipe the floor with McCain, but America probably is not yet ready for that, and the MSM certainly is not ready. They would defend Grandpa from the scary man (that they cross the street to avoid).

Remember, he is not aiming for those on progressive blogs, he has them. He is aiming for the white guy in Ohio who just lost his job and has voted for other white guys his whole life. Or that guys wife.

He just has to project calmness when he debates. Then win the election with his ground game.

nalbar

by nalbar (nalbarsatgmaildotcom) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 12:14:50 AM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thoughts (4.00 / 3)

Oh, definitely.

I am least interested in progressive whining about why Obama was deferential or agreeable. Of course we hate that. We should learn to love it.

by BooMan on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 12:19:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, (4.00 / 6)

I think his defferential approach is what wins with women. He didn't come off as week, he came off as someone who actually walks the walk with respect to trying to reach across the aisle.

How in hell can McCain really get bipartisan buy-in with his confrontational attitude? Bullying people into agreeing? That's not building coallitions & cooperation.

Obama proved he had that grace, without losing his cool. Like, he displayed the tactfulness that might lead people to think he could successfully pull our national reputation out of the international gutter.

And then, in the moments with McCain stared right at the camera, smug as if he'd finally be asked a question on which he had actually done his homework, his delivery was predictable. "oh! I called Obama dangerous Karl Rove will be soooo proud of me!!"

With a debate opponent who offered any lesser degree of obstinate contrary bluster, Obama probably would have had a fairly enlightened debate. Sadly, he's stuck debating a frothing shithead.

There's reason to suspect Obama will perform better on the next two topics, no? And McCain will have to survive watching his campaign rolling in napalm, playing with matches, after Palin gets to go all Miss South Carolina on Biden.

by martini on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 01:59:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, (4.00 / 4)

Despite her performance to date, I do not think we should be quite so sanguine about the likelihood of Palin crashing and burning in the debate. It seems counter intuitive to expect something different, but I have an uneasy feeling.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 02:53:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, (4.00 / 4)

I think your right Hurria, it will be what the MSM makes it. Expectations are through the floor with her. If she comes and doesn't speak in tongues they will spin it into a victory for the McCain campaign. It is definitely counter intuitive. Lets remeber Bush the idiot getting crushed in his debates and then winning the election.

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; now we know that it is bad economics;" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

by Salunga on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 08:49:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, (4.00 / 3)

Palin will do fine in terms of presenting memorised talking points to scripted questions, and the format will not allow for much more than that. Biden has to be careful about appearing querulous and ungentlemanly in confronting her. Its a debate he really can't win because the expectations of her are so low.

"We reported back to hearts what we had seen, and told our footsteps all about where we had been."

by Frank Schnittger (Frankschnittger at hotmail dotty communists) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 08:55:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, No notes during the debates (4.00 / 4)

Palin can't bring her notes to the podium.

Go take a look at Palin in this segment of the Katie Couric interview.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 09:49:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, No notes during the debates (4.00 / 3)

She's smart enough to learn stuff by rote. Biden has to try and engage with her directly by asking her unscripted questions

"We reported back to hearts what we had seen, and told our footsteps all about where we had been."

by Frank Schnittger (Frankschnittger at hotmail dotty communists) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 10:13:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, No notes during the debates (4.00 / 3)

as we all know and as the Couric's Palin interview confirms -learning stuff by rote does. not. guarantee. giving the correct answer to the question asked.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 10:30:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, No notes during the debates (4.00 / 2)

Correct answer? How about a coherent sentence, whether or not it answers the question. That would be an improvement already.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 05:16:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, No notes during the debates (4.00 / 4)

yes, that is devastating (or "pathetic" as Jack Cafferty said). How media spins the debate performance is a big part of it - and even if Sarah P does a bit better than in her interviews (though I don't see how she can without her notes - oh! the earpiece! my bad!) people are looking at the danger of a total incompetent (who gets all her answers from some right wing theocratic interpretation of the Bible) as president.

Viva Obama

by Errol on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 10:20:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thoughts (none / 1)

What bothered me was not hearing Obama say that McCain was right on some issues, but hearing which memes he was conceding -- so many of which were related to the military. He called Russia the aggressor in the recent Georgia conflict. He called the Iran Republican Guard a terrorist organization. He credited the surge for the reduction in violence (when the violence reduction is because of an Iraqi ceasefire in effect before the surge and because of a reduction in civilian population available to be killed). He supported missile defense (Star Wars, for Pete's sake!).

I realize that when the American people have been lied to about these issues for so long, a brief debate format does not provide the time to set the record straight. Still, by accepting Republican frames (and outright lies), I don't see how he strengthened his position.

A Progressive Christian perspective on I/P at Beyond Bethlehem

by RustyPipes (rustdotypipesatyahoodotcom) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 06:57:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thoughts (none / 0)

My take is that Obama actually believes all that shit. In fact, in one of the things he disagreed with McCain about he was dead wrong. He said to McCain "You said that there was no history of violence between Shiite and Sunni. And you were wrong." No. Obama is wrong. Prior to 2003 Iraq had no history of serious, widespread, or protracted violence between Sunnis and Shi`as, and yet Obama, like almost all other Americans, has bought hook, line, and sinker, and without quesiton the "received reality".

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 07:22:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thoughts (none / 1)

Here is Alex Cockburn's take on that:

The first function of any presidential debate is to demonstrate to the Big Money that both candidates are "safe", first on the matter of keeping the rich secure from worry. The second function is to assure all relevant lobbies that they are ready and willing to blow up the world if American "security" requires it.
In the requisite demonstrations Obama and McCain sang in unison.

Cockburn also notes that McCain blew his one last big chance to salvage his campaign yesterday: to come out against the bailout.

Republicans are like fetuses: both are incapable of thought. That's why Republicans are against abortion.

by Alexander on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 07:38:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thoughts (3.88 / 8)

What is it about people that they don't seem to grasp the fact that Obama is not playing at being cool, calm, and collected. He IS cool, calm, and collected. I'm not suggesting that he never gets angry. We ALL get angry, but we have different ways of dealing with it. This whole narrative about Obama having to avoid coming off as an "angry black man" is ludicrous. Does anyone believe that he stifles himself in public in order not to affront anyone, but that when he is in the intimacy of his home environment he screams, breaks the dishes, and beats the dog?!?

I have dealt with both extremes, and a lot of people in between. People who are quiet but forceful and reasonable in their arguments get much more accomplished. And people who truly listen to the people that are talking to and around them also get much more accomplished. Do we really want a head of state that evinces the qualities that McCain displayed tonight: sneering, angry, petulant, sour, etc.? McCain didn't even look at Obama. And he didn't appear to be truly listening to what Obama had to say. He was formulating his reactions, with that stupid mantra ("Senator Obama doesn't understand . . . ) threatening to leap out of his mouth before Obama could even finish a sentence.

Do any of us really want an angry, resentful, petulant man or woman at the helm of this nation? Haven't we had enough of Quick Draw McBush, and haven't we seen enough evidence of McSame's war-mongering propensities, to realize that we need a different way of leadership for a future to even be a possibility?

by Mum on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:57:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thoughts (4.00 / 3)

I see your point and absolutely agree with you!

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 05:19:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thoughts (none / 1)

go here for a list of what McCain didn't do.then type in Obama"not look at"Obama:

Some results

Livebloggling the Debate at Ole Miss
15 hours ago
Obama is standing up to McCain, and is now talking directly to him. McCain will not look at him. Obama is strong, again talking retail, something he hasn't been good at in the past. Lehrer once again asks McCain to TALK TO OBAMA. ...
Taylor Marsh - http://www.taylormarsh.com - References
8 hours ago by Scott Whitlock
During late night coverage of Friday's presidential debate between Senators Barack Obama and John McCain, "Hardball" host Chris Matthews attacked the Republican for showing both "contempt" and an "inferiority complex" towards his ...
NewsBusters.org - Exposing Liberal Media Bias - http://www.newsbusters.org
Leaning Obama after the debate
11 hours ago by regan
John McCain refused to look at Obama. This bothered me. It did not seem civil or statesman like. Obama would talk to McCain, but McCain would not look at him. This is representative of their approach on talking with "rogue" nations. ...
Pulling Weeds out of Potholes - http://regansravings.blogspot.com/
I know, lately a large portion of this blog has been devoted to ...
1 hour ago by The Clandestine Samurai
Besides the fact that McCain did not look at Obama at all even though Obama addressed him directly like a gentleman and a scholar is supposed to, besides the fact that McCain lied numerous times and worked to bully and take over the ...
Life: The Dynamic - http://transcendanxiety.blogspot.com/
Obama: Presidential, McCain: Brawler, American
10 hours ago by admin
And, it seems as though his debate prep consisted of two things - ride through the financial crisis with various stories and do not look at Obama. Obama, on the other hand, seemed to be focusing on the concept of being the Presidential ...
Political Gastronomica - http://www.politicalgastronomica.com - References
Barack was courteous enough to comply with his host moderator's request McCain did not look at Obama once. To me, this made McCain seem surly, snarling, rude, dismissive. I want less bombast and incivility. I have just lived through the ...
Utah Savage - http://utahsavage.blogspot.com/
McCain's patronizing contempt for Obama
7 hours ago by NMC
Looking at reaction online, and listening to what people said at a (very pro-Obama) party after the debate, I'm hearing that folks (Chris Matthews, for instance) are commenting on the fact that Mccain would not look at Obama. ...
folo - http://www.folo.us

McCain needs some rabbits

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 10:22:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thoughts (none / 1)

I don't know that anybody's looking for Obama to turn into a barroom brawler. The fact remains that Obama would not be the nominee now if not for his ability to make passionate speeches that sweep his audiences up into an emotional whirlwind. Last night's debate showed none of that. I think Obama would have done better for himself to show some of the passion he brings to speeches.

But maybe that's not what the audience wanted. He may know exactly what the's doing, but I can't help mourning the death of the idea that politics is supposed to have some connection to caring about ideas.

FDR's response to progressive demands: "I agree. Now go out and make me do it."

by DaveW on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 11:28:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Post-Debate Thoughts | 75 comments (75 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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