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Can You Say Depleted Uranium? | 15 comments (15 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Can You Say Depleted Uranium? (none / 1)

It was developed to deal with Soviet armor. In the event of a Soviet invasion of Europe NATO would have been vastly outgunned in the number of tanks (forget for a moment that the Soviets ever seriously considered invading Western Europe). So, it was thought by the geniuses at the Pentagon we needed to have a better tank to tank kill ratio should war break out in Europe. Depleted uranium for tank shells and antitank weapons was chosen as one answer because it was extremely dense and plentiful, and it did do a wonderful job of piercing armor plate. The problem? No one paid attention to the fact that despite being depleted it vaporized on contact releasing billions of aerosolized particles of a still toxic metal into the air, which if they get into you lungs (likely since they would become part of the dust that falls) anyone still living in that area would probably inhale a toxin far worse than lead (which as you know we forced the oil companies to take out of gasoline because of its toxic properties).

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

by Steven D on Sun Nov 15th, 2009 at 10:44:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can You Say Depleted Uranium? (none / 0)

Why depleted uranium? It heavy per unit volume. It is easily available from nuclear reactors. The high mass per volume means that its impact on armored vehicles and other targets is much stronger, making it able to pierce heavy armor plating and reinforced concrete walls.

The fact that it is depleted means that most of the U-235 has split into its by-products, one being lead, which is also heavy. What remains is the non-radioactive isotope of uranium U-238.

More than likely, the cancers have been caused by lead and other heavy metal byproducts than by radiation or phoshorus. Phosphorus injuries would be heavy burns, not internal cancers.

There might be other chemical byproducts of battle, which although less noticeable might have a higher potential for inducing cancers. Gulf War Syndrome, for example, still is a mystery as to its causes.

The fact of a war of choice and the treatment of prisoners of war are sufficient to argue that Bush, Cheney, and company are war criminals without arguing for stuff that might not be true. What is clear is that some objective-minded scientists need to do an environment study of towns in Iraq that have these cancer rates.

50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

by TarheelDem on Sun Nov 15th, 2009 at 11:45:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can You Say Depleted Uranium? (none / 0)

Perhaps you misunderstood me. I consider Bush and Cheney as war criminals because they waged a war of aggression (i.e., one without justification). The effects on the citizens of Fallujah do not change that fact.

Regarding the birth defects issue, I think that it is more than reasonable to infer that had there been no Battle for Fallujah the birth defects there would not have occurred at this high rate. Whether the cause is the weapons employed or some other consequence of the battle I do not know. However, my money is on the depleted uranium. It is still weakly radioactive, and in small particles inhaled or drunk as part of a contaminated water system (or from animals who consumed the particles) it could still cause damage to cells based on its toxicity as a metal and from the radioactive effects.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

by Steven D on Sun Nov 15th, 2009 at 12:03:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can You Say Depleted Uranium? (none / 0)

I understood your point about Bush's war crimes. However, there are a lot of heavy metals and other elements released in fission. Here is a list I found on Wikipedia:

* 1 Krypton 83-86
* 2 Rubidium 85,87
* 3 Strontium 88-90
* 4 Yttrium 89
* 5 Zirconium 90-96
* 6 Molybdenum 95, 97, 98, 100
* 7 Technetium 99
* 8 Ruthenium 101-106
* 9 Rhodium 103
* 10 Palladium 105-110
* 11 Silver 109
* 12 Cadmium 111-116
* 13 Indium
* 14 Tin 117-126
* 15 Antimony 121,123
* 16 Tellurium 125, 128, 130
* 17 Iodine 129, 131
* 18 Xenon 131-136
* 19 Caesium 133, 134, 135, 137
* 20 Barium 138, 139
* 21 Lanthanides (lanthanum 139, cerium 140-144, neodymium 142-146, 148, 150, promethium-147, and samarium 149, 151, 152, 154)

Strontium 90 is radioactive isotope and can cause birth defects. That was one of the factors that politically drove the US to underground testing by the 1960s. Check the effects of the other heavy metals in the list.

50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

by TarheelDem on Sun Nov 15th, 2009 at 02:34:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can You Say Depleted Uranium? (none / 0)

There is some natural spontaneous fission in U-238, but I doubt if it contributes considerable fission fragments, compared to a nuclear bomb. Most of the radiation is natural decay by alpha emission. This is still dangerous and my money's on depleted Uranium as a mutagen over white Phosphorus. Direct burns are probably Phosphorus.

Just a technical correction, I agree with your overall judgment.

by The Voice In The Wilderness on Sun Nov 15th, 2009 at 07:52:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can You Say Depleted Uranium? (none / 1)

Another technical correction:

The fact that it is depleted means that most of the U-235 has split into its by-products, one being lead, which is also heavy. What remains is the non-radioactive isotope of uranium U-238.

Depletion means the U-235 has been separated out for use in bombs or reactors, where it is added to natural uranium to make enriched uranium.

U-238 is indeed radioactive, but it is non-fissionable. Non-fissionable is a relative term. If you piled up enough U-238 it would fission. I don't know how much, perhaps a billion cubic feet.

I spent a lot of my own money on my Physics degrees. You have to expect me to use them.

by The Voice In The Wilderness on Sun Nov 15th, 2009 at 07:58:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can You Say Depleted Uranium? (none / 0)

Aha! That explains the appearance recently in artillery shells.

What a great way to clean up the depleted uranium at Hanford and Savannah River and Oak Ridge as those facilities closed or reduced the production of nuclear weapons.

And I wonder what happened to the nuclear material that the US recovered from the build-down of Soviet nuclear weapons under START.

50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

by TarheelDem on Mon Nov 16th, 2009 at 07:19:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can You Say Depleted Uranium? (none / 0)

Food for thought!

by The Voice In The Wilderness on Mon Nov 16th, 2009 at 10:27:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Can You Say Depleted Uranium? | 15 comments (15 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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