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Deep Thought | 19 comments (19 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Deep Thought (none / 1)

What is the Bush Doctrine with respect to Pakistan? It seems to me that it was "here take our billions for your military and pretend you're with us on the war on terror business."

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

by Steven D on Mon May 4th, 2009 at 08:27:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

The Bush Doctrine (soon the Bushama doctrine?) with respect to Pakistan is the ever same thing: American Exceptionalism + "sovereignty is for those who can defend it." If Dick Cheney were to read your post he would laugh out loud and rightly so.

by Guthman on Mon May 4th, 2009 at 08:36:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

Cheny had no interest in Pakistan for the simple reason that they had no oil. That was why Cheny push for an invasion of Iraq and later Iran.

As for the Obama policies being a continuation of the Bush policies, I think engagement with the regime is vastly different than benign neglect and support for a dictator.

I also believe you are assuming I support a military intervention in Pakistan. I do not. But if Islamic militants gain control over Pakistan's nuclear weaponry or materials we are very screwed. At that point Inida might very well launch a first strike.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

by Steven D on Mon May 4th, 2009 at 08:45:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

Well what was your post about then? "Engaging" in itself is diplo-speak i.e. a deliberately empty phrase. Besides rumors are flying that the Obama administration wants a new military dictatorship in Pakistan and is pushing the "militants getting their hands on nukes" meme for that reason. So you may well get your wish plus you'll get to wash your hands of it.

by Guthman on Mon May 4th, 2009 at 08:58:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

The point of the post was obvious. Pakistan is a powderkeg waiting to explode and its going to take more than luck or wishful thinking to avoid what many see as a looming catastrophe. I'm not sure what is the point of your objections to the post. That it is about Pakistan? That it paints Pakistan as a country in a dangerous and unstable political condition, which instability threatens the prospects for peace in the region and which pose a threat to the security of its nuclear armed neighbor, India as well as a possible security risk to the United States? What exactly is so bothersome to you about pointing out these concerns? The fact is that many, many experts have been warning about the situation in Pakistan, and to pretend the problem doesn't exist is beyond foolish in my humble opinion.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

by Steven D on Mon May 4th, 2009 at 09:10:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

I understand that it's very important not to get one's hands dirty. So pray tell us: what exactly is "it's going to take more than luck or wishful thinking to avoid what many see as a looming catastrophe" supposed to mean? Stop dealing in opaque euphemisms and get real with your arguments.

by Guthman on Mon May 4th, 2009 at 09:21:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

I see. Your problem is that I don't have a solution to this. And I freely admit I don't. My desire would be some sort of economic aid package that goes to solidify the civilian government and allow it to better provide essential services to its citizens, combined with sanctions (i.e., a cut off of further aid to the military) in exchange for greater accountability and disclosure of Pakistan's security measures re: its weapons programs, but I have no idea if that would work or to what extent it is feasible government under the current circumstances.

What's your solution/proposal or do you simply criticize others who comment on these issues based on your own assumptions and prejudices about them without having any alternatives to suggest of your own? If you have something constructive to say, say it. So far I haven't heard anything but attacks from you based on your own presuppositions about what those of us who report on this issue are seeking (a concern the mainstream media is not covering very well I might add). Your principal assumption seems to be that we are all warmongers itching to employ the military option, though what you base that on other than your own imagination I can't discern.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

by Steven D on Mon May 4th, 2009 at 09:48:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

Constructive: respect Pakistani sovereignty. Constructive: stop destabilizing Pakistani sovereignty by putting an end to the neo-colonial adventure in Afghanistan. Constructive (this one is for you): stop writing hysterical posts that equate the situation in Pakistan with the housing bubble. I guess it is a good thing that you are backtracking as best as you can from the subtext of your original post: What do you establish after all by equating the housing bubble with the situation in Pakistan? That "the authorities" were asleep at the wheel and didn't "intervene" and cut short the madness and thus let the bubble debacle happen --- just like in Pakistan (note that this neo-colonial logic in that it assumes the US is Pakistan's ultimate authority). Your post is about "intervention" no matter how much you are tying yourself in knots about it now. Just like economic intervention has a way of taking shape in certain ways (raising interest rates, regulation of financial institutions) so superpower intervention has a way of taking shape in certain ways, see Vietnam, see Iraq, see Afghanistan, see Chile, see Indonesia, see Hungary, see Cyprus, see Somalia, see...

by Guthman on Mon May 4th, 2009 at 10:24:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

"...rumors are flying that the Obama administration wants a new military dictatorship in Pakistan and is pushing the "militants getting their hands on nukes" meme for that reason..."

Guthman, why would the Obama administration support a new military dictatorship if the concern is "militants getting their hands on nukes"? Everything I've read would indicate the military has the closest relationship with the folks we'd rather not have nukes. Unless, of course, one were to conclude the Pakistani military itself is threatening to allow nukes to fall into terrorist hands in order to have its way.

by VizierVic (VizierVic@hotmail.com) on Mon May 4th, 2009 at 09:15:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Deep Thought | 19 comments (19 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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