Booman Tribune ~ A Progressive Community

Undermine their macho image

by ask
Thu Nov 17th, 2005 at 10:39:49 PM EST

This brief entry is inspired by susanhu's and Steve D's stories on the front page just now regarding Rep. Murtha.

It is surprising how successful Bushco has been in maintaining the macho image they have created for themselves. Bush has failed in every business he has been involved in and is now failing miserably as a politician as well. His ranch has no cattle.
Cheney is a mega-corrupt businessman who somehow floated to the top of a stinking pile.

Their swagger has -incredibly - convinced a large portion of the population that making statements like "bring it on" or "either you are with us, or you're against us" fully explains policy.

follow below::

But now - when tables are turning and Bushco is finally deeply wounded and clearly in panic mode, we are served this morsel from Rep. Murthy:

(As linked in susanhu's story)
"I like guys who've never been there that criticize us who've been there. I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and send people to war, and then don't like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done," Murtha said.

This is obviously not news, but now is the time that it can finally get traction. Attack their manhood!

It could be slightly sugar-coated;
"..A man admits to his mistakes! It was very reassuring to hear President Bush take full responsibility for the mis-management of the Katrina disaster. It would be even better if he were man enough to come clean on the failures of the Iraqi war..."

..or for the jugular;
"..What kind of men are they anyway? Cheney got a bunch of deferments because he had 'other priorities' and Bush didn't even fulfill his service requirements in the TANG. And now they keep insisting to continue a war - killing or horribly maiming thousands of our brave young men and women every year - based on lies and misuse of intelligence..."

If we could get that message into the mainstream I'm convinced that at least a few, and maybe more than a few of the macho crowd would falter from their die-hard support.

Undermine their macho image | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Undermine their macho image (4.00 / 5)

Can we get that message out there via the pundits or our representatives? Amplyfying Rep.Murthy's message!

What is your version?

John McCain - Less Jobs More War

by ask on Thu Nov 17th, 2005 at 10:42:52 PM EST

Re: Undermine their macho image (4.00 / 5)

just don't call 'em girls. Not around the frog-pond anyway. Or you'll find out a little something about resolve. Heh.

by BooMan on Thu Nov 17th, 2005 at 11:01:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Undermine their macho image (none / 1)

Hehe, you may be on to something there.

John McCain - Less Jobs More War

by ask on Fri Nov 18th, 2005 at 01:55:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Undermine their macho image (4.00 / 2)

What is your version?

macho = greedy, reactive, dishonest and stupid. Look at the goddamned House budget they just passed. The only thing good about it is that the elections in '06 look more and more like a Dem landslide. Then we can start investigations with some teeth.

by the other colleen on Fri Nov 18th, 2005 at 10:10:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Undermine their macho image (4.00 / 2)

If we can have a clear plan about attacking their machismo and not their masculinity, I'd be happy to help.

I see a major difference in between "masculinity" and "machismo". Masculinity is any of the infinite number of different healthy forms of expressing a male gender, whereas machismo defines itself by a requisite domination; domination over women, children, other men, foreigners, and occasionally bulls running through the town square. Masculinity doesn't even need to engage in a bar fight, let alone win them on a regular basis; machismo lives for bar fights, even better if they're over nothing more than "he disrespected me". Masculinity respects femininity as simply another variant on the gender theme; machismo uses words like "girl" as an insult.

This sort of domination is also at direct odds with liberal notions of democracy, as it is a mechanism of hierarchical social control based on threats of violence and hasty, indiscriminate uses of actual violence, rather than a more egalitarian structure based on appeals to logic/reason/empathy and regulated uses of force only as a last resort.

by IndyLib on Fri Nov 18th, 2005 at 12:13:00 PM EST

Re: Undermine their macho image (none / 0)

Yes, I'd like to focus on affirmations of Mature, Responsible Leadership, rather than attacks on insufficient "masculinity".

We could spend (and have spent)a lot of time in contentious discussions of "what masculinity means to me",or "Hi, I'm Joe's masculinity", but ultimately each of us has an individual, internalized feel for what is healthy gender role identification.

Not to be flippant, but one man's manliness is another man's machismo, is yet another's hypermasculinity. What's worse, the accusation of "not manly enough" implies exactly what ? What is the antithesis of manly? I think it's "immature, ignorant and irresponsible", but I fear too many hearers would interpret unmanly as effeminate, yet again branding femaleness as inherently inferior to maleness. I am heartily sick of that shit.

George W. Bush is not a mature, wise, responsible leader. If attack works better than affirmation, let's do it in a way that doesn't backfire on us.

"No one has the right to say `You do what I tell you, or I'll hurt you.'" - Monty Roberts

by susanw on Fri Nov 18th, 2005 at 12:47:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Undermine their macho image (4.00 / 2)

I share your concerns, Susanw.

But I disagree that "one man's manliness is another man's machismo". I mean, in a subjective sense, of course that's true, but in a definitional sense it's just as false as referring to a hammer as a handgun; one can be a tool or a weapon depending on how you hold it, the other one's only good for killin'. They are distinctly different concepts, and just because many people are unaware of the difference doesn't mean there isn't one.

So if Bush's masculinity is criticized in a general way, then I agree that people will probably hear something like, "Not a real man = too womanly to handle the job right." But that gives us the chance to differentiate the concepts for them. We can then talk about how Real Men(tm) and Real Women(tm) both have certain important traits in common: honesty, forthrightness, taking responsibility, apportioning accountability when warranted, having strength of conviction balanced with the willingness and honor to admit when one has been wrong.

Unless we keep saying it, no one will ever hear it.

by IndyLib on Fri Nov 18th, 2005 at 02:36:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Undermine their macho image (none / 1)

Your point is well taken. I agree that good character traits are good no matter who possesses them. I personally would define both Real Man and Real Woman identically as a Real Adult.

I was speaking about the subjective perceptions of manly vs. macho vs. hypermasculine, and of course I know there are real differences. I welcome any opportunity for citizens to engage in a meaningful discussion of gender issues. That would go a long way to furthering a progressive, liberal, big-D Democratic agenda.

My worry is that serious examinations of political issues are frequently reduced to sound bites that are not understood to mean what was intended. That is why I have concerns about using a "manliness" argument. I fear it will come out like code pandering to the prejudices of the right wing.

Perhaps I'm nuancing this death. I know we all want same thing, but I've become very skittish about the tendency of some Democrats to appear Republican-lite by dissing women, minorities and the poor. I'd hate to have this accurate, well meaning criticism of Bush twisted into something unintended by those less honorable, honest and forthright that the posters of Booman Tribune.

"No one has the right to say `You do what I tell you, or I'll hurt you.'" - Monty Roberts

by susanw on Fri Nov 18th, 2005 at 04:31:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Undermine their macho image (4.00 / 2)

That is why I have concerns about using a "manliness" argument. I fear it will come out like code pandering to the prejudices of the right wing.

An absolutely valid concern. I am not much for testosterone-laced argumentation myself. But I think it is worthwhile to look for a way to push a wedge between Bush and the macho faction of his (remaining) followers. It shouldn't be 'us' (the lefties) making the argument - somehow, we must make the pundits raise the argument.
Now, maybe this distancing by the base has already happened. With an approval rating hovering around 35%, it may be that it is only fundies remaining as it is.

John McCain - Less Jobs More War

by ask on Fri Nov 18th, 2005 at 04:54:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Undermine their macho image (none / 1)

I'm trying not to grin at the idea of Rush, Bill and Sean vilifying Bush in sexist, demeaning terms. Really, really trying.

AAARRRRGHHHH....Can't do it. Have to grin and laugh out loud !

Thanks, ask. Such an elegant solution.

"No one has the right to say `You do what I tell you, or I'll hurt you.'" - Monty Roberts

by susanw on Fri Nov 18th, 2005 at 06:18:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Undermine their macho image (none / 1)

Well, we can always dream for that, nothing would be better! My ambition is a bit lower (though, I like yours) - just having it echo as an underlying message in the mainstream. If Faux & co. turns on them they are really cooked, but I find it unlikely.

John McCain - Less Jobs More War

by ask on Fri Nov 18th, 2005 at 07:23:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Undermine their macho image (4.00 / 2)

I do understand your concerns, and like I said, to some degree I share your fears. But I don't think it's a reason to shut down a national conversation about healthy masculinity, which I think we desperately need to have as a culture. As to politics, I guess I figure it's like this: if we have more of the gender conversation, then more people who are receptive to liberal ideas about it will align with us politically, and people who aren't receptive to our ideas weren't going to align with us anyway.

I understand that it's a risky implement. I view it as a calculated risk, worth taking for serveral reasons, not the least of which would be the chance of opening up less divisive national dialogue about both gender and responsibility.

I personally would define both Real Man and Real Woman identically as a Real Adult.

I would, too.

by IndyLib on Fri Nov 18th, 2005 at 05:18:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Undermine their macho image (4.00 / 2)

Yours is a sensible and meticulously thought out position. I cannot help but agree. This is what we really need and I see now that the risk is worth it.

ask came up with a plan so clever we could pin a tail on it and call it a weasle.

When the left initiates rational conversations about GWB's performance as a man, perhaps it will taunt and tempt the wingnuts to mount a " NO, Bush is TOO SOFT on...whatever" posture, letting THEM use the sexist language that exposes their misogyny.

"No one has the right to say `You do what I tell you, or I'll hurt you.'" - Monty Roberts

by susanw on Fri Nov 18th, 2005 at 06:35:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Undermine their macho image (none / 1)

I'm doubtful that anything can be gained by attacking Bush's "masculinity", when his problem is hypermasculinity characterized by a) the inability to form genuine affectionate attachments (see the distancing use of nicknames), b) a single, all consuming obsession, and c) total repression of shame.
The hatred he projects on Iraq is a defense against feelings of inadequacy and alienation. Watch is face when he says that Saddam Hussein tried to kill his daddy. The people of Iraq are dying, in part, because W can't admit to himself how much he would like to kill his daddy himself.

Challenging his manliness won't deal with the alienation and inadequacy that drives Bush's hypermasculine personality, a personality that cannot recognise mistakes, let alone admit them. If he's told that it's politically important to take some responsibility, he'll say the words if he has to, but that's just PR.

I like the idea of emphasising Personality Traits of a Mature Leader, but I question putting it in terms of manliness. Bush, in his hypermasculinity, suffers from too much of that already.

"No one has the right to say `You do what I tell you, or I'll hurt you.'" - Monty Roberts

by susanw on Fri Nov 18th, 2005 at 11:26:47 AM EST

Re: Undermine their macho image (none / 1)

That is an interesting perspective.
However, when I wrote this last night I was not so much thinking of attacking Bush in order for him to change his ways. It was more a suggestion to remove him further from his base and to erode his support.
"..He fails in everything he is doing, even the macho bit...". If that becomes the meme he will further lose among the NASCAR and NRA crowd.

John McCain - Less Jobs More War

by ask on Fri Nov 18th, 2005 at 12:54:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Undermine their macho image (none / 1)

I agree with your perception of the traits of manliness. What concerns me is the interpretation that will be attributed to anyone who attacks him in that specific term. I think I know what you mean when you say that Bush is unmanly, but ours is a minority definition. I fear that most Americans will hear "Bush is a Pussy" if we use "unmanly".

I wholeheartedly support your goal of doing what it takes to highlight his shortcomings in order to show his base that he's as much of an embarassment (and danger)to them as the rest of us.

Immature, cowardly, obtuse, irresponsible,
impulsive, bull headed, self centered and undependable are just the start of the specific aspects of GWB's failure to achieve adulthood.
Maybe we can hammer on "Bush acts like a spoiled brat."

"No one has the right to say `You do what I tell you, or I'll hurt you.'" - Monty Roberts

by susanw on Fri Nov 18th, 2005 at 01:57:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Undermine their macho image (none / 1)

Stick to the tried and true: testosterone overdose.

by rba (nearnight12@yahoo.com) on Fri Nov 18th, 2005 at 03:46:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Undermine their macho image | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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