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Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload

by SusanG
Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 02:43:43 PM EST

[From the diaries by susanhu.] Whenever I want to get a quick snapshot of conservative talking points, I take a quick - and I mean quick - run around the block at NRO's The Corner.

And people, it doesn't look pretty for Bush today. On this single August Sunday morning, we already can mark up one outright defection and one very, very doubting - and questioning - former Kool-Aid drinker.

First, the defection. Andy McCarthy declared today:

For what it's worth, this is where I get off the bus.
...even if I suspended disbelief for a moment and agreed that the democracy project is a worthy casus belli, I am as certain as I am that I am breathing that the American people would not put their brave young men and women in harm's way for the purpose of establishing an Islamic government. Anyplace. [Emphasis is McCarthy's.]

And Jonathan Adler quotes a bailing Professor Bainbridge, who starkly states: "It's time for us conservatives to face facts. George W. Bush has pissed away the conservative moment by pursuing a war of choice via policies that border on the criminally incompetent." Adler goes squishy and mumbles: "While I am not sure I agree with his analysis, he raises questions that conservatives should address."

Hoo boy. I think the walls are tumbling down.

Please, take your cursors out for a spin around the internet and add your "Pundits Who Are Bailing." I think for the elitist conservatives, the incorporation of Islamic law into the Iraqi constitution is going to be the breaking point.

Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload | 28 comments (28 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload (4.00 / 7)

Chalk up conservative cartoonist Scott Stantis (Prickly City) as another who's jumped ship. His series this week had his character Diogenes wandering the Senate and the White House looking for "one real Republican." Here's what happened at the Senate:

by litho on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 03:04:25 PM EST

Bailing by the BUSHel...? (4.00 / 8)

Dudehisattva...

"Generosity, Ethics, Patience, Effort, Concentration, and Wisdom"

by bood abides (thedoodabides@suddenlink.net) on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 03:04:48 PM EST

Excellent! (4.00 / 4)

n/t

by SusanG on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 03:11:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The State of the State (4.00 / 6)

It's interesting, I think, because it exposes another major miscalculation by Bush's handlers. They seem to have assumed that their base would accept any "democratic" Iraqi state that incorporated their values - repression of women, state religion, etc. Fortunately, they appear to have miscalculated. A lot of their base seems to have bought into the idea that they went into Iraq to set up a "Christian" hyper-corporatist free market state. The current - entirely predictable - state of affairs is not going over well with them at all.

Kill because somebody was killed. Get killed because he killed. Do you think peace will ever come like that?

by Egarwaen on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 03:05:53 PM EST

Re: Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload (4.00 / 6)

Even when they are not bailing out, they are on the defensive in a way that they have not been in years.

"Attack!" has been their mode of operation. Now, the attacks are backfiring (Cindy Sheehan isn't sinking the way Kerry and his swift boat did) and they don't know what to do. Rush and Bill, for example, both have had to back-peddle recently, trying to change what they said about Sheehan. The reactions to their comments, even from their conservative audience, were rather negative.

I'm not sure who I have less respect for, those who are bailing out or those who are trying to keep on flying. By bailing out, the jumpers are showing that they knew, deep down, that this was all nonsense--that they were along because they thought it would be a good ride. Hacks. Those who are staying on the plane, are they so stupid that they can't see they are about to crash into an immovable mountain of public opinion that ain't taking it anymore?

by Aaron Barlow on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 03:07:17 PM EST

Tiggers and Tigers (4.00 / 4)

An apt metaphor comes to mind: Bushco have found themselves riding the tiger. So they've got the choice between holding on for dear life - which is rapidly becoming impossible - or get eaten.

Kill because somebody was killed. Get killed because he killed. Do you think peace will ever come like that?

by Egarwaen on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 03:12:35 PM EST

Re: Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload (4.00 / 9)

"We" are winning, but the silence from the leadership - any progressive will do - is deafening. Do they need an invitation?

by rba on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 03:30:15 PM EST

Re: Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload (4.00 / 7)

Tolstoy wrote (over and over again) that a general only leads an army where it wants to go.

It seems, right now, that we have no generals at all.

We'll just have to do it ourselves.

To hell with them!

by Aaron Barlow on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 04:37:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Generals (4.00 / 3)

Yep. It's like watching that old Burlington commercial where the threads are flying at near-light speed weaving cloth. That's us. Horizontal connectivity.

by rba on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 06:26:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload (4.00 / 3)

How does stepping into this pile of shit actually contribute to relection of any current Democratic politician?

Note that I said "relection", not election as Paul Hackett was pushing for.

Our existing politicians are not looking to lead a movement. They are looking for a movement to get in front of.

However you feel about it, this is the nature of politicians. Don't expect them to change until after some new politicians have been elected on an anti-bush anti-war platform.

Raccoons may be bold. Successful politicians aren't.

Proud Democrats do not appear on FOX News!

Visit Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - over

by Rick B2 (jayray21athotmaildotcom) on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 06:07:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload (none / 1)

You might want to read Ignatius' column of last Friday.

by rba on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 06:42:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload (none / 1)

Thank you for directing me to Ignatius. He is dead spot on. Democrats have no leaders and no alternative policies. Here is his best paragraph:

What can the Democrats do to seize the opportunities of the moment? I suggest they take a leaf from Newt Gingrich's GOP playbook and develop a new "Contract With America." The Democrats should put together a clear and coherent list of measures they would implement if they could regain control of Congress and the White House. If the Democrats are serious, some of these measures -- dealing with economics and energy -- will be unpopular because they will call for sacrifice. But precisely for that reason, they will show that the Democrats can transcend interest-group America and unite the country.

That list of measures will have to be put together by Dean, Pelosi and Reid. There is no one else, and I don't see that any single one of them can do it effectively alone.

Nor do I see any hint that any of them are prepared to take on the job.

Esentially we see the Republican Party collapsing of its own inherent idiocies and corruption right before our eyes, and the Democrats have no organized party that can take advantage of the opportunity Rove/Bush/DeLay are giving us.

Instead there are a bunch of prima donna politicians who are all trying to decide which way the wind blows so they can get ahead of it.

Proud Democrats do not appear on FOX News!

Visit Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - over

by Rick B2 (jayray21athotmaildotcom) on Mon Aug 22nd, 2005 at 12:04:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Already been done (none / 0)

See here.

Ignatius got lazy and phoned in a column repeating a tired old trope.

Now if I could stop at a Dem table at a county fair and see this, I'd feel a lot better.

I think Dems would be much better served if in addition to bashing DC Dems in blog comments, people actually put this agenda into fliers and visited the fairs, the picnics, the ice-cream socials and got the message off the internet and into the community.

by Mary Mary on Mon Aug 22nd, 2005 at 09:06:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Already been done - I wish! (none / 0)

OK. That's a start, but it is a load of crap.

Not for what it says, but for how it says it. It should be eight to ten bullet points that will fit on a single card (3 X 5 preferred, 5 X 8 if required.) you can put into your pocket. Each bullet point should be short and punchy.

It should be stuff that matters to most of America, not inside the beltway policy wonk garbage. The context makes it garbage. Not the content. This should be a PR document showing what Democrats stand for. Instead it is a wonkish roadmap to how government can be manipuilated written by and for experts.

Have you read that document? If you have, you are not one of the voters is should be aimed at. You have to be previously interested and convinced before you will committ to reading that rather dense document.

This isn't a PR document. It is a homework assignment.

Proud Democrats do not appear on FOX News!

Visit Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - over

by Rick B2 (jayray21athotmaildotcom) on Tue Aug 23rd, 2005 at 07:58:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It is a homework assignment. (none / 0)

Yes. Yours!

You're absolutely right and why don't you take a shot at reformatting it as you suggested. Then put in the time getting them out to the public.

(I thought about a series of 3x5s with one point each.)

My point, though, is that Ignatius should have done his homework before writing that column. He was wrong, and I hate like hell to see Dems online spreading his bullshit.

by Mary Mary on Tue Aug 23rd, 2005 at 08:50:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Already been done (none / 0)

OK. Let me be more precise. First, go look at REPUBLICAN CONTRACT WITH AMERICA. As a political PR document it is brilliant.

Then compare it to the list of legislation that you referred to on Harry Reid's web site.

Now, take Reid's laundry list and start to move it toward a contract document. Here is my first pass.

National Security

> Act to target terrorists and prevent terrorism - increase Special Operations forces by 2,000. Target the institutions that spawn new terrorists. Act to keep the world's most dangerous weapons out of the hands of terrorists.

> Support the troops - increase our military strength by 40,000. Enact a Guard and Reserve Bill of Rights that describes fairly what is expected and what protections will be given members, including income security and affordable health care.

> Enact a veteran's bill of rights - ensure that all veterans get the health care they were promised, including mental health care. We will ensure that no veteran is forced to choose between a retirement and disability check.

Ecomonic Growth and Security

> Build an American economy that values working people and rewards investments in labor as well as in capital - Reward companies that create good paying jobs for American workers rather than exporting jobs to cheap foreign labor. Rebuild America's economic infrastructure and reward economic innovation by employers. Lower the trade deficit.

Family Security

> Increase educational opportunity for all - Make sure students have the access to good education and the tools to benefit. Fully fund federal educational requirements.

> Provide access to health care for every American at reasonable cost -

> Make the termination of pregnancies legal, safe and rare - enact legislation that will reduce the number of abortions.

Good Elections

> Ensure that every voter has access to the polls and that every valid vote is counted -

This isn't an end document, of course. It has a loooong way to go to become a contract. Tying it to currently proposed legislation might or might not be a good idea. The list is not complete, and still too wordy.

But I am talking about a PR document that Democrats can run on, not a list of legislative initiatives that can be loved only by policy wonks and read by even fewer people.

Proud Democrats do not appear on FOX News!

Visit Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - over

by Rick B2 (jayray21athotmaildotcom) on Tue Aug 23rd, 2005 at 08:59:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Already been done (none / 0)

To the above I might add that Democrats promise to hold hearings on War Profiteering and the causes of our invasion of Iraq.

We should also promise to support Iraqi progress towards democracy, human rights, stability and the rebuilding of their society. We should also promise that our troops will leave Iraq at the earliest possible date consistent with the desires of the Iraqi government and that we will not base troops there.

The specific nature of the Iraqi promises will be highly contentious. Whatever it says will be unpopular with a lot of people, and that is as it should be. It will not be an easy decision, and committing to it will be hard. It has to be done, however.

Proud Democrats do not appear on FOX News!

Visit Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - over

by Rick B2 (jayray21athotmaildotcom) on Tue Aug 23rd, 2005 at 09:14:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload (4.00 / 3)

How can one administration back the most powerful country in the world into such a hopeless corner.We have no good options. Their people are now jumping ship on them. Ill-conceived, illegal and stupid, now how do we get out of this?

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; now we know that it is bad economics;" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

by Salunga on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 03:52:48 PM EST

Re: Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload (4.00 / 4)

Thadeus and Weez' latest take on Bushco in Iraq:

Good stuff, check out the site if you've not seen it.

Peace

the revolution will not be televised...

by dada on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 04:09:23 PM EST

Re: Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload (4.00 / 5)

It's called hubris.An unreasonable belief that what you do is right because you are you.
And for Andy--I would say"What were you thinking or not thinking?" Why get on a bus that is going in the wrong direction ?"

by shycat (painebillATHotmail) on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 04:10:09 PM EST

Re: Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload (4.00 / 5)

GOP Senator Says Iraq Looking Like Vietnam

Nebraska Sen. Chuck Hagel (news, bio, voting record), who received two Purple Hearts and other military honors for his service in Vietnam said "stay the course" is not a policy. "By any standard, when you analyze 2 1/2 years in Iraq ... we're not winning," he said.
"We're past that stage now because now we are locked into a bogged-down problem not unsimilar, dissimilar to where we were in Vietnam," Hagel said. "The longer we stay, the more problems we're going to have."

Another Kool-aide drinker reiterates that he's not thirsty anymore.

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; now we know that it is bad economics;" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

by Salunga on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 04:29:35 PM EST

It is indeed encouraging... (4.00 / 5)

to see conservative pundits criticizing Bush's Iraqi debacle.

I can't wait till the liberal pundits do the same.

by Ed J on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 04:52:02 PM EST

Re: Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload (4.00 / 4)

the bailing by the bushel is great, what may be worse is when we really find out what condition our condition really is in ; ) (financial, backlash, etc. etc.)

(a lil' Kenny Rogers take on "Just Dropped in, to see what Condition my Condition was in"

"what a wonderful world"- Louis Armstrong

by infidelpig (rdewaynetaylor01@earthlink.net) on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 05:11:51 PM EST

Re: Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload (4.00 / 6)

As great as it is that conservative pundits are finally acknowledging that the Bush regime's Iraq adventure is a disaster, it's a bit like the NYT running a story highlighting Janice Rogers Brown's dangerous extremist views the day after she's confirmed to a lifetime appointment as a Federal appeals court judge.

I can only hope that the emerging shift in opinion about this war translates into a complete repudiation of the criminal and traitorous liars who orchestrated it in the first place. It would be helpful on this score if the so-called Democratic leadership had something to say, but their political cowardice remains a firm obstacle to their ability to speak to principle and truth.

A pox on them all!

Denial is our most dangerous adversary.

by sbj on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 05:13:02 PM EST

Bailing boat (4.00 / 4)

Sinking?

Bush Ship Sinking

Tables turned

~~~

by Oui on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 05:43:10 PM EST

Re: Bailing boat (4.00 / 2)

This is a great thing to come to late on a sunday!!

Tired of politics as usual? I suppose everyone's BUSHED

Extremist religion getting you down? Meet the burning BUSH.

Gosh, guys. sorry.. I just couldn't resist those puns. Bush's berries getting squeezed just makes me want to run away with myself!

(Great links Oui!)

Hermaphrodite with attitude!

by Syniel (s y n i e l *dontspammeeeeeeDx*@gmail.com) on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 08:28:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload (none / 1)

Some of these guys are bailing so they can get re-elected. They actually have no stand on any issue until the polls tell them what they think.

Visit me at Tunnel Traveller

by Teacher Toni (tacoralatyahoodotcom) on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 09:04:35 PM EST

Re: Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload (none / 1)

Yep, the gutless neocons will be turning on old idiot more and more as the midterms approach.

CNN's "Dead Wrong" was good tonight. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and Tenet will go down in history as the people who stole the United States good name and used it for stupid mindless imperialism. I think Powell knowing the intel was shaky didn't show any backbone either.

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; now we know that it is bad economics;" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

by Salunga on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 11:20:57 PM EST

Conservative Pundits Bailing by the Busload | 28 comments (28 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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