Booman Tribune ~ A Progressive Community

Open Thread

by BooMan
Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 04:58:57 PM EST

Here it is. The obligatory open thread. Have at it.

Open Thread | 98 comments (98 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

St. Pat's Four Acquitted (4.00 / 5)

St. Patrick's Four Acquitted of Federal Conspiracy Charges

Acquittal

The Great Spirit is our Father, but the earth is our mother.

by ghostdancers way (ghostdancers_way@hotmail.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:09:29 PM EST

Re: St. Pat's Four Acquitted (4.00 / 5)

Great news on the acquittal. Possibly a huge victory ovrall if it marks the beginning in a trend to turn back the aggressive pursuit of repression being pushed by the Bush regime.

Thanks for posting this.

Denial is our most dangerous adversary.

by sbj on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:23:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 5)

My, isn't today more fun than some days we've had recently? Hey, I've still got happy feet over Delay's indictment.

Then it got even better--as a Californian I'm all too familiar with, David Dreier, former tough guy, recently madeover as David Dreier, smooth guy in the sharp suit. A complete hypocrit gets a few hours of stage time, and then gets thrown over on image scare by the Republican caucus.

Then it's Blount who's greed outshines his intellegence, and who was regarded as being OK as House Republican Whip and Delay's book carrier as long as he was carefully watched by the House Republican leadership. What this clown can screw up on his own we can only wait for.

by rolfyboy6 (rolfyboy@NOSPAMsonic.net) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:13:02 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 8)

That DeLay indictment was like a huge sugar rush. I think I'm coming down and need a long nap now.

by catnip (llamg88 at hotmail.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:17:54 PM EST

Completely agreed (4.00 / 6)

definitely crashing and burning here.

by BooMan on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:30:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I had to make coffee (4.00 / 2)

PMS Purchase More Shoes

by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 08:55:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let The Frogmarch Begin (4.00 / 6)

_________________________

Check out My Voice Acting Page.

by mrboma on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 10:38:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Guess who said THIS today? (4.00 / 12)

"The lack of focus is maddening, obviously. But my biggest problem with anti-war protests is that they're obsolete. What do they accomplish? Historians still argue about the role Vietnam-era protests had on ending the war (shortened it versus prolonged it). But today, they mean nothing. "

"We are a media-saturated world, bombarded on all angles by information. A bunch of people marching in the street no longer have any serious emotional effect on media consumers. One picture on a front page and CNN of flag-drapped coffins would likely have a greater effect on war opinions than 1,000 marches like the one we had last weekend."

None other than the great "Kos" himself. Looks like he just continues to try to help "our" party into oblivion.
I say stick it up your ass where your head resides these days.

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.

by alohaleezy on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:19:55 PM EST

Re: Guess who said THIS today? (4.00 / 11)

I saw this earlier and was quite dismayed by his overall conclusions. I almost posted a comment but there were already 200+ on the thread and frankly I have little expectation of the possibility of reasonable discourse at DKos on a thread that swollen.

Denial is our most dangerous adversary.

by sbj on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:27:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guess who said THIS today? (4.00 / 13)

well I did post in that thread and this is what I said there:
"Networking! (none / 0)

I have to tell you what going to Crawford did for this old grandma. I saw thousands of other people not just sitting at their computers whining about this administration but ready to get involved at the real world level. I met people I never would have met otherwise and learned so much from them. Each group had their purpose in being there but we all had the common thread that it is time to stop the lying, time to stop the dying. I got to meet and have the privelage of driving an Iraq Vet to Crawford from Austin, a stranger in Austin, a friend for life by the time we reached Crawford. I heard his story and it inspired me to do more for these vets coming home after 15 months serving to NO benefits.

That protest inspired me to get involved more on the local level so we can win seats back in '06 and regain some control over our country. Now take that times 100,000 people and you get a bit of a bigger picture of what benefit a proest march does.

The more understanding one posesses, the less there is to say and the more there is to do.'

by Alohaleezy on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 12:48:19 PDT

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.

by alohaleezy on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:42:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guess who said THIS today? (4.00 / 10)

Bravo!

There's nothing like actually connecting with live human beings in person to expand and strengthen awareness.

"Doing" rather than preaching through the keyboard. It's almost a novel concept these days.

Denial is our most dangerous adversary.

by sbj on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:58:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Novel concept (4.00 / 9)

Particularly if one is a sanctimonious, self-absorbed, know-it-all...

by CabinGirl on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:04:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Novel concept (4.00 / 8)

There's always a problem when one becomes one's own biggest fan.

Denial is our most dangerous adversary.

by sbj on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:22:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Novel concept (4.00 / 9)

Back in the day, marches were about media coverage but they were more about solidarity. And they were about sending a message to the powers that be who will certainly be aware of the marches whether or not there is lots of media coverage.

Fear will keep the local systems in line. -Grand Moff Tarkin -SLB-

by boran2 (blogistan@yahoo.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:58:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Novel concept (4.00 / 3)

I wonder now how large of a protest march and how unified and focused of a message it would have to have in order that the MSM would simply not be able to ignore it.

Denial is our most dangerous adversary.

by sbj on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 08:59:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Novel concept (4.00 / 6)

I was telling my husband a few days ago that having 100,000-300,000 people descend on somewhere NOT DC, like, I dunno, Salt Lake City? (I'd bet Rocky would be up for it) or Sugarland, TX -- that's get their attention! Especially if it could be cleverly coordinated with W's stage-managed photo-op schedule -- I'm betting he'll be doing a lot of those this fall and not just because of weather-related devestation.

I want something else, to get me through this, semi-charmed kinda life..
Third Eye Blind

by brinnainne on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 09:26:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Novel concept (4.00 / 3)

Your "NOT DC" idea is a great one Brinnaine. Different venues with different themes, like some of what used to happen in the old days. (I remember going to a big sit-in in front of the (?Diablo) Nuke power plant in Calif. sometime in the very late 70's.).

How about a huge rendevouz at Yucca Mountain in Nevada, or maybe in the middle of a forest Gail Norton has turned over to the timber industry to destroy?

More strategically though, I've had the thought recently of staging theatrical presentations on various issues at protest venues as a primary method for delivering the message. The possibilities are endless, a cohesive and coherent message can be generated in each presentation on particular issues, and each can be filmed in their entirety by peopl involved in the protest and archived together for posterity, (as well as for strategic release to the lazy MSM).

Think of the topics and the myriad way to treat them.

War
Abortion rights, (what would it be like if it was criminalized again?)

Poverty
Racism
Religious intolerance

Separation of Church and State, (satire on effects of anti-science school curriculae on youth; oppressive totalitarian reign of religious terror with witch burnings atrocities committed against non-Christians, gays etc., and all manner of other persecutions).

I've had a fairly long and complicated day today so maybe this is all a little wacky, but I'd be interested in what you think about the idea as a whole.

Denial is our most dangerous adversary.

by sbj on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 10:04:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Excellent Reply by Meteor Blades (4.00 / 8)

.
Fer cryin' out loud, can we stop this ...
◊ by Meteor Blades
Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 12:32:41 PDT

...my approach is the only approach and anybody who disagrees is a be-beaded, patchouli-drenched retread stuck in the '60s bullshit? You, too, Markos.

▼ ▼ ▼ MY NEW DIARY

by Oui on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:28:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Excellent Reply by Meteor Blades (4.00 / 7)

Good. I was hoping MB would give him a smack upside the head.

by catnip (llamg88 at hotmail.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 08:02:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Holy dreadlocked discussion, batman! (4.00 / 5)

Wow - they're debating dreads over there? When did dKos turn into a meeting of the Young Republicans?

In the words of Bob Marley (natty-haired man himself):
"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery. None but yourselves can free your minds."

by catnip (llamg88 at hotmail.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 09:08:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So where do you think all those disillusioned (4.00 / 5)

"yuppie can't make up their minds till the last minute and vote on the me first ticket" go when they can't stand the reality gap any more? They went to kos!

Grandma Jo

by glitterscale (glitteryscale@yahoo.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 10:25:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

antiwar protests (4.00 / 9)

But today, they mean nothing.

Just one word for that: bullshit

by catnip (llamg88 at hotmail.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:36:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guess who said THIS today? (4.00 / 7)

Mark this moment. He has jumped the shark. There are many reasons to march, at least some of which he does not recognize.

Fear will keep the local systems in line. -Grand Moff Tarkin -SLB-

by boran2 (blogistan@yahoo.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:35:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guess who said THIS today? (4.00 / 9)

I would also nominate the phrase "reality-based community" for having jumped the shark. The whole "I'm more reality-based than thou" sanctimoniousness going' 'round the past couple months has been sickening.

Taxation Without Representation

by BrotherFeldspar (brother.feldspar (at) gmail) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 08:40:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guess who said THIS today? (4.00 / 7)

Very important point you make. The original meaning of reality-based has been mutated from being a way to describe someone who evaluates things based on verifiable fact into a clever phrase used to arrogantly assert that one's own opinion of things is infallably correct.

It's an example of the inevitable hubris of the self-absorbed. Sophistry at it's worst.

Denial is our most dangerous adversary.

by sbj on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 09:10:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh please Lee, I just left there (4.00 / 8)

I had this HUGE conversation in D.C. with lawyer Jonathon who was on me about removing my voice from Kos so much. Democracy is about debate blah blah blah blah........and Jonathon is 100% correct too. Booman is still my home but tonight I was making some coffee and decided to go check out Kos and THERE THAT FUCKING WAS? What a stupid ass! What an idiot! I must go beat my head against the wall for a little while right this minute. Can't fucking believe it! What is his problem? Is he jealous that nobody took a hottie in jockeys shot of him? He should have gone then! Doesn't know about the plans for large civil disobedience to follow because everybody has been taking this one step at a time?....Then he should have fucking shown up! Kos on his mighty tower of power! Kos, your one stop Democratic Blog shopping..........UGH.....Fucking Idiot!

PMS Purchase More Shoes

by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 08:40:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh please Lee, I just left there (4.00 / 9)

Markos: pushing Democrats away - one group at a time.

Like I said in my diary about the protests:

"Here's the gist of this: you work with what you have and you make it work. The protests worked. If you say they didn't, that's the message the American people will get - loud and clear."

by catnip (llamg88 at hotmail.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 09:14:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

especially women! n/t (4.00 / 4)

Grandma Jo

by glitterscale (glitteryscale@yahoo.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 10:27:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh please Lee, I just left there (4.00 / 4)

Wasn't Markos telling us a couple of months ago not to look at him, if you were looking for a leader. This was right after the special election in Ohio. Dailykos got a lot of credit for Hackett's surprise showing, and kos was in effect saying "it ain't me babe"

So if the folks who went to DC. feel that it was an effective use of time, so be it. If that means more antiwar rallies, go for it. If being there helped folks get energized to fight the good fight in their home districts...great!

What is written here and at kos, my left wing, and other sites is certainly not a waste of time. Neither is real activism, in my opinion.

It is time for Democrats to remember who got us in this mess, oppose them and not each other.

by keepinon (jaukkuri@sbcglobal.net) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 11:08:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

one more thing (4.00 / 4)

Ukraine > protests > I'm just sayin'

by catnip (llamg88 at hotmail.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 09:59:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Meteor Blades said more and better! n/t (4.00 / 2)

To thine own self be true. W.S.

by sybil on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 10:11:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Umm... (4.00 / 6)

I had never heard of David Dreier before today, but after seeing him...uhh...well, are you sure that isn't Tim Robbins?

Tengo un sueño.

by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:24:49 PM EST

Re: Umm... (4.00 / 6)

Believe me, that's just what he wants you to think. Mr. Cute is a smart hard nosed hawk with subtle moves and a smooth delivery. I've watched his nasty moves for years and he's an unprincipaled jerk who can sound ever so reasonable.

by rolfyboy6 (rolfyboy@NOSPAMsonic.net) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:45:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Umm... (4.00 / 5)

Puleezeee. No confusion here. Mostly because Tim Robbins is absolutely THE man of my dreams!!!

Doesn't information itself have a liberal bias? Steven Colbert

by NLinStPaul on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 08:09:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Abramovich *Chelsea* $13bn Deal Sibneft (4.00 / 5)

Russia's Gazprom to Purchase Majority Stake in Sibnet Oil Company

$13 Billion Deal Will Increase State's Grip on Energy Sector by Peter Finn

MOSCOW, Sept. 28 -- The state-controlled energy giant Gazprom agreed to purchase a majority stake in the privately owned oil company Sibneft for $13 billion, the largest corporate deal in the country's history and one that will increase the state's grip on Russia's booming energy sector.

Analysts noted that the purchase price works out at about $3.30 per barrel of reserves, a cut-rate price compared to other large oil deals. But this acquisition included a political calculation on the part of Sibneft's principal shareholder, the high-profile tycoon Roman Abramovich [owner Chelsea Football Club], as much or more than it involved a strictly business decision, some analysts said.

Comment in Jerome's recent diary --
Gazprom 75% Majority Stake in Sibnet Oil

▼ ▼ ▼ MY NEW DIARY

by Oui on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:25:10 PM EST

Re: Anti-War Protests (4.00 / 12)

What do you make of these numbers from a poll of Kos viewers:

45% of Kos respondants are in favor of the anti-war protests
31% are only somewhat in favor provided protestors either "dress nice" or the protest does not include ANSWER
16% think they are counterproductive

By the way 8% said "other" -- whatever that means.

And when did people start requesting that there be a dress code for marches?

In any case, do these numbers reflect a "liberal" blog?

by numediaman on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:42:51 PM EST

Re: Anti-War Protests (4.00 / 11)

One of the commenters yesterday in a thread over at the site to not be named was very much pushing white shirts and slacks, business attire over and over again. She got batted down pretty much. Liberal blog my ass. Not these days.

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.

by alohaleezy on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:47:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Anti-War Protests (4.00 / 9)

Good question.

Probably not. The dress code being a dead giveaway.

by CabinGirl on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:47:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

March dress codes (4.00 / 10)

Well sure! After all, black shirts and brown shirts were quite popular in marches during the 20s and 30s. I seem to recall there was even a small movement for blue shirts around the same time. These marches weren't exactly for causes we'd call progressive, but the precedent is there.

SNARK MODE OFF

Taxation Without Representation

by BrotherFeldspar (brother.feldspar (at) gmail) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:00:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: March dress codes (4.00 / 8)

orange shirts might actually fit the pattern, now that you mention it.

by CabinGirl on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:06:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: March dress codes (4.00 / 10)

Maybe some armbands, too? This idea is so ludicrous, it's just too easy to mock.

Taxation Without Representation

by BrotherFeldspar (brother.feldspar (at) gmail) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:18:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: March dress codes (4.00 / 7)

Hmm..bandanas turned armband? And the logo, well, that has military overtones, doesn't it?

Now, where'd I put my jackboots? :)

by CabinGirl on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:28:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Very sad... (4.00 / 8)

I just said good bye to the Cheers and Jeers email people...

come home to find the flag and banner you waved - shat on you.

Booman, I think your forum is going to very very big soon.

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix

by Damnit Janet on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:48:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Very sad... (4.00 / 6)

I was actually wondering on Saturday how people could show such allegiance to someone who mocks them?

I'm sorry, I know how much you love all the cheers and jeers folks. Did you invite them over?

by CabinGirl on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:54:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Very sad... (4.00 / 7)

No, I just emailed a good bye to them and an invitation to email me privately.

I invited the man from VFP who posted in Meteor Blades diary to come post here.

Cindy Sheehan should post her "hippie protest diaries" here instead. If not here.. then anywhere else.

Heh, BrotherFeldspar, I love the photo of the dress code for marches LOL

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix

by Damnit Janet on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:01:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Very sad... (4.00 / 3)

VFP, was that jimstaro?

by CabinGirl on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:02:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Very sad... (4.00 / 9)

C&J email dude just asked me to hang out and be patient and stay in their community.

I'll hang back now and learn from the peace some of you tried to teach me.

I can not afford to lose those I love. And I love so many in C&J.

And I definitely love you guys. With all my heart.

but.. fuck Kos.

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix

by Damnit Janet on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:23:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Most of Cindy's Stuff Goes Up (4.00 / 7)

on Common Dreams and TruthOut.....they even have a special page for Cindy-realted activities on TruthOut....

I want something else, to get me through this, semi-charmed kinda life..
Third Eye Blind

by brinnainne on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:05:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Cindy (4.00 / 5)

I e-mailed her to introduce her to BT months ago and asked her if she'd post her - nada.

You can still follow her diaries elsewhere, like the Bellaciao Collective.

by catnip (llamg88 at hotmail.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 08:07:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cindy (4.00 / 5)

How about emailing her Kos' diary about how worthless she is . She might just change her mind.

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.

by alohaleezy on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 10:07:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: March dress codes (4.00 / 4)

Jackboots ... next to your stilettos, maybe? I'm eyeing a pair of khaki jodhpurs myself. Those look pretty smart. Marschieren wir dann zum Sieg zusammen!

Taxation Without Representation

by BrotherFeldspar (brother.feldspar (at) gmail) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:02:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

High heels??? (4.00 / 3)

Then we can do the Monument trail walk :)

I'm actually growing fond of the biggest blister.... :)

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix

by Damnit Janet on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:38:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: March dress codes (4.00 / 4)

The man on the right of the front line in the picture looks at first, quick glance like Ahhhhnold. Ya think?

A politician is a man who will double cross that bridge when he comes to it. -- Oscar Levant

by Mnemosyne on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:55:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Now there's my brother I love so much (none / 0)

PMS Purchase More Shoes

by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 08:43:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

dress nice? (4.00 / 3)

What the hell does that mean?? "Dress nice"?

Excuse me while I split a gut laughing hysterically.

by catnip (llamg88 at hotmail.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 08:16:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"dress nice" means (4.00 / 5)

"Oh, a little stroll downtown to voice our mild disapproval. Wouldn't that be special?"

Taxation Without Representation

by BrotherFeldspar (brother.feldspar (at) gmail) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 09:43:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

rofl! priceless n/t (none / 1)

by catnip (llamg88 at hotmail.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 09:57:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Anti-War Protests (4.00 / 5)

When people start openly advocating for a uniform group appearance, you know that society is experiencing retrograde evolution.

It's definitely a sign of the "one step back" for those fabled "two steps forward" that describes the calculus by which we measure civilization's supposed advance.

Denial is our most dangerous adversary.

by sbj on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 08:18:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This Modern World...just for :)'s (4.00 / 6)

Bush, Rove and Cheney are Radical Letists

click on image for large version

Peace

lTMF'sA...the revolution will not be televised...Peace

by dada on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:43:38 PM EST

An interesting economics data juxtaposition? (4.00 / 9)

To be cross-posted on Booman Trib, DKos & European Trib...

OK - it's been a nearly sleepless several days since the marching in DC and the trip to Italy... But today as I was riding home from Logan Airport in Boston, I could have sworn I heard two little, independent "news bites" (spread over a 30-minute period on the local "all news" AM radio station, WBZ) that I thought put the whole BushCo™ in stark relief.

Two points, that perfectly juxtaposed one another and seemed to completely describe the utter failings of Bush's economic policy.

Here's what they were:

Some data came out today showing that the number of billionaires in America went up by 10% over the course of the last 12-months (the number of millionaires was up a "paltry" 8%) in a calculation that excluded home ownership values.
Data released today showing that the number of overdue credit card balances in the United States in the April-June 2005 quarter reached an all-time high. Whomever the person was who was quoted for this story underscored that this data may show that people were on the hairy edge of economically keeping their shit together and now haven't been able to keep up as gas and oil prices had begun to rise in the spring. He further underscored that this was before the additional oil/gas/gasoline and ancillary economic turmoil caused by the Katrina/Tina double-whammy.

To me, that's the Bush tax and economic policies rolled neatly into two simple reports today. Further wealth transfer to the wealthiest few Americans while mainstream America is stretched dangerously-close to the economic breaking point. And the trifecta is that this mainstream America economic tipping point may be the "failure" of Bush's gas/oil and energy strategies (though since they've been enjoying record profits, I'm sure Bush's Big Oil buddies would argue with my characterization of it being a failure).

I'm posting here on the open thread to see if any of the Booman/European Trib/DKos team can provide more detailed info - it seemed right up Bondad's or Jerome's ally, to only mention a couple of the more fiscally grounded individuals around here. I'm going to go off hunting for data next.

Thoughts? Data? Links?

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
From "It Can't Happen Here", Sinclair Lewis, 1935

by frisco on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:49:25 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 14)

Open thread??? good then I can say this "here"

Fuck Markos. Fuck him.

So he sat on his bloggy ass and watched CSPAN do the ANSWER speakers and he knows all???

He didn't hear the United for Peace and Justice, he didn't see mainstream America marching - and it was a fucking HUGE LONG march. But he can criticize it.

Well fuck him.

To quote Lou Reed - Stick a fork in me - I'm done....

done with that shit.

I'll march and risk - instead of sit on my ass and criticize something that was wonderful.

I've had it.

now back to your regularly scheduled open thread :)

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix

by Damnit Janet on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 05:52:16 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 8)

Hmmmm, that is what I was trying to say yet at that same time not stir the pot but it just really pssid me off so bad. Go read the thread. It is amazing those that agree with him. Especially someone with a handle that starts with A and ends with N. Really amzing to me that we belong to the same party. No wonder we cannot win an effing election. Look who our "spokesperson" is. Well, I for one will find a way to get it out there that he doesn't effing speak for me the asswipe.

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.

by alohaleezy on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:04:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 8)

I just let it loose over there again.

And then saw a friend I met at the march. A man from VFP. :)

We have too much work to do - to have to deal with assholes like Kos.

I had a fucking freeper on the plane treat me with more respect than the shit Kos spews out.

Booman... can I just stay here from now on????

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix

by Damnit Janet on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:08:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 6)

yeah girlfriend that was the last straw for me. Never again, no matter what will I go there. In fact I think I will close my account. Should I do a GBCW diary there first...just for laughs?

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.

by alohaleezy on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:12:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How does one close an (4.00 / 6)

account? Is it possible? Do tell!

I want something else, to get me through this, semi-charmed kinda life..
Third Eye Blind

by brinnainne on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:18:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How does one close an (4.00 / 7)

I don't know. Haven't had time to figure it out but I just do not want my spikey haired, hippie ass name associated with that blog what so ever.

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.

by alohaleezy on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:53:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What I did. (4.00 / 3)

Go tell the DKos system you've forgotten your password. It will email you a new one that's random. Use it to log in to the site, but don't change it. Forget it. Then log out.

Then Daily Kos becomes a read-only place, and conveniently they don't display comments by default now. So you can read the occasionally great writings of bloggers you know and skip the rest.

Caution: you will feel motivated to rebut nonsense. But since you now have to go through the entire "I forgot my password" email process before you can post, you have a good chance of thinking twice before making that mistake.

Sort of works for me.

Angie and Bill: Colorado's bright future!

by ubikkibu on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:14:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It Must Be Easy (3.66 / 3)

.
do like me - get banned!

Requires no effort at all. First time I was confused and surprised, and made an uproar.

The second time, it still takes you by surprise and it's awkward
and ehh ... I'm so fortunate!

▼ ▼ ▼ MY NEW DIARY

by Oui on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:48:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

How does one close an account over there? I've tried, even sent emails, but have been ignored. Frankly, I don't want to contribute to the hit count, so I'm reluctant to even go over there to try again....

I'd rather own books that I don't read than clothes I don't wear." -- Jonathan Safran Foer

by mlr701 (mlr701atgmaildotcom) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:40:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't try (none / 1)

and don't even bother. Someone a while back left there, and asked that all his diaries, comments, etc. be purged. They took his GBCW diary and re-posted it, simply to mock it. Children can be so cruel. There was a link around here somewhere to the whole sordid affair not long ago, during the "dirty hippies" episode.

Taxation Without Representation

by BrotherFeldspar (brother.feldspar (at) gmail) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 10:28:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes - how do we do that? (3.75 / 4)

I'll miss C&J so damn much... but fuck Kos and his little blog, too.

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix

by Damnit Janet on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:30:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 11)

I find it kind of funny, in a sad way, that so many kossaks showed up with their orange flag, bandanas, t-shirts, etc. and this is how he thanks them.

There's a sense that people in America aren't getting the truth. - George W. Bush (Gee, ya think?)

by Kamakhya (onyx at earthlink dot net) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:12:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No more (4.00 / 6)

My brother held up that flag for a long time. Several did. RenaF got Kos out there and spoken about.

Cindy Sheehan posts there.... need to contact her and let her know Kos just shit all over us.

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix

by Damnit Janet on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:19:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yay Janet (4.00 / 10)

I agree. Fuck Markos. He's been moved "to apathy" by the massive, international protests of last weekend?

I don't know about you folks, but the opinion-typing stuff that Kos does is what I do between walking and knocking, protesting and phone-calling. I like the net.community, but I never mistook what happens on the blogs for a substitute for action.

And now the figurehead of the netroots is telling me to stop all that actual Real World crap, get a better haircut, and focus on...what? Blogging? Giving money to his stable of conservative Dems in swing states?

A mature response from one who is jaded about public activism would have been to remain silent. One can argue that our time is better spent, but one should not then go out and denigrate others for how they spend their time, especially when these people are the only energized ones on your side.

My only net.goal now is to see a bit more newsy content show up consistently here at BMT. Then I have no reason whatsoever to visit Daily Kos.

Angie and Bill: Colorado's bright future!

by ubikkibu on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:45:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey U (4.00 / 8)

I just don't get it... I'm classless? March and risking and protesting is useless???

We should all dress nicely and get haircuts? I was dressed nice. I carried a flag. I put some orange on the billboard of HighAcidity and CodePink (meaning I had the bandanda in the photos).

Makes me want to go out and BUY some patchouli oil right now. LOL

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix

by Damnit Janet on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:51:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey U (4.00 / 5)

I liked your Code Pink shirt so much I'm going to get one. I'll join, too--been meaning to for a while now. But I really, really want one of those cool umbrellas with the peace sign.

Orange is not a becoming color. And these days I associate it with the American gulag.

A politician is a man who will double cross that bridge when he comes to it. -- Oscar Levant

by Mnemosyne on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:02:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey U (4.00 / 4)

Orange is Guantanamo

"green grass and high tides forever"

by supersoling (colorsplash62@optonline.net) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:21:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey U (4.00 / 2)

I got some pink parasols from the United for Peace and Justice rally/concert at the CodePink kiosk.

They didn't have the pink umbrellas cause I want one too :)

CodePink does so many of the things I can get behind. They are great and have FUN.

Super, orange is for gitmo :)

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix

by Damnit Janet on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey U (4.00 / 2)

A quick piece of advice on the code pink shirts. I ordered one in the size I usually wear and it was WAAAYYYY small. I'll just give it to my niece, but word to the wise - order larger.

Doesn't information itself have a liberal bias? Steven Colbert

by NLinStPaul on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 08:05:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I know. (4.00 / 6)

I could pass for a stockbroker most days, but the next protest event I attend, I'm putting on the buttless chaps! Maybe some giant novelty Groucho glasses, a Steve Martin arrow-through-the-head, a CAT Diesel cooter cap with scrambled eggs on the brim, and a humongous GWAR-style dildo with flashing lights.

After all, I'm apparently just trying to get noticed by the "co-eds," right?

Angie and Bill: Colorado's bright future!

by ubikkibu on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:04:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I know. (4.00 / 6)

The thing is I saw plenty of suits on Saturday and all level of neat dressers. That's the beauty of it. There were ALL makes and models of Americans there and that's the way it should be.

"green grass and high tides forever"

by supersoling (colorsplash62@optonline.net) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:20:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

His main posters are mostly last Harrah people and they were prowar to a fault. They also go balistic on anyone who dislikes the Likud government in Israel. Kos is dlc light. Just post here, and give up. He is probably on with dlc donations.

Stray Roots Message Board,Thus far unmoderated! Dameocrat Blog

by StrayRoots (dameocrat@STUFFTOREMOVEpeacemail.com) on Thu Sep 29th, 2005 at 04:40:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Toon of the Day (4.00 / 4)

Neo-Conservation

by jjoats (jthomasphoto@yahoo.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:49:31 PM EST

My local newspaper published this LTE (4.00 / 11)

I am progressive therefore I am a traitor

I recently wrote an unpublished LTE to this paper concerning the disparaging comments concerning liberals in a LTE concerning the war in Iraq and what it is costing the American people. I also have read many disparaging remarks concerning Cindy Sheehan in various newspapers and blogs. It appears that anyone who deviates from the talking points of the Administration, who heaven forbid, disagrees with the logic that moved us into this war, is well in a word, a Traitor.

I am many things, I have done many things and I will continue to do many more things in this life, for as long as I draw breath. I will not, nor shall I allow anyone to place the moniker of Traitor upon me, simply because I demand to exercise my rights under the Constitution of the United States of America.

I am thoroughly disgusted that many so called Republicans, the champions of freedom, small government and no government interference in our personal lives have deemed it necessary to denigrate, slander, disparage and defame other Americans simply because they are left of Attila the Hun.

I have heard the word Liberal used like a curse word, that being progressive makes me a communist and that I Hate America, because I believe in a living breathing Document that is our Constitution. I believe that challenging my government to tell the truth, to clearly have a vision and to carry that vision out in a way that enhances the lives all Americans is my profound right and one that I strive to keep in the forefront of my political life.

I am sickened by the Neo-Con Right's call that anyone who does not agree with the President is guilty of Treason, we are endangering the lives of our military personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan and we Hate America. I love my country, even when it is lead by a group of individuals who hate my freedoms to challenge them when they violate our Constitution and International Laws. I love my Country because it is my country and its Constitution guarantees me the right of Free Assembly, Free Speech and the right to petition my Government when I deem they are wrong.

I have watched over the last 15 years, the slow disintegration of the Bill of Rights and in the last 4 years, I have watched that same Bill of Rights dissipate at an alarming rate. The Patriot Act, the Real ID Bill signed by the President recently, a bill in the House that would make it a felony to not report a drug crime, seems to me that the US is losing its way. I am fearful for my country, my fellow countrymen and my children, that our government has succumbed to the extremist's viewpoint, that dissent is unwelcome and not to be tolerated, frightens me to no end. The Neo-Con's attack those who disagree with them with such vitriolic hatred and outright animalistic vengeance, in order to suppress dissent and keep the home front safe from the liberal commie hippie progressive leftists. I am a progressive American Citizen who finds the current climate of my country unacceptable to the freedoms that I have enjoyed and will fight to continue to enjoy for me my children and my fellow countrymen and women. Why is it that an administration that prides itself on its rule of law outlook on running our country, continues to hold an American citizen in a Federal Brig, without charge, without due process, without access to a lawyer or the right to Habeas Corpus.

I am saddened by the continued vilification because I am left of Attila the Hun. I have decided that I will continue to voice my concerns, that I will address the attacks against me without utilizing my first line of defense, I will not slap them down with angry words, disparaging comments about their heredity or their parents marital status. I will engage in constructive dialog designed to open the door of communication and hopefully to open the minds of those who despise me because I am a Progressive. I know many of you will say what an exercise in futility, yet I must do this as I continue to hear disparaging language and out right hatred concerning those of us who don't walk lock step with the current administration. I place the responsibility of so much of this hatred and contempt for us that are progressive, squarely upon the shoulders of many in the Republican party, who have made it their mission in life to splinter our country, simply so their own fortunes will improve. I will tirelessly work to address these issues, to open the doors of communication between moderate republicans and progressives, who are seeking to return our government to some sense of sanity.

I fear for my country and its people, when an administration that purports to support freedom and democracy, in actuality supports the direct opposite of freedom and democracy. We have been kept in the dark by the current Neo-Con supported administration about so much of what is happening in Afghanistan, Iraq and now the rebuilding of the Gulf Coast. How many no bid contracts, how many Americans held without trial will it take, before America wakes up and says, where has my country and its freedoms gone.

this is the condensed version I posted here as a diary about a month ago.

The Great Spirit is our Father, but the earth is our mother.

by ghostdancers way (ghostdancers_way@hotmail.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:57:39 PM EST

Re: My local newspaper published this LTE (4.00 / 6)

Tell it man! Like you, I won't ever tolerate someone calling me or those who see what I see, traitors. They are the one's who are traitors for seeking to silence my voice.

"green grass and high tides forever"

by supersoling (colorsplash62@optonline.net) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:16:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My local newspaper published this LTE (4.00 / 6)

How do they traitor thee
let me count the ways

by trying to stifle our free speech rights
by outing undercover CIA agents
by prying into our private records, reading habits, and more
by sending our young men and women to war for their profit
by ignoring a real enemy to fight a war for their personal profit
by weakening our countries defense for their personal profit
by profiteering for themselves and their corporate friends at the cost of our sons and daughters blood
by weakening our ability to defend ourselves at home and allowing our people to drown and starve in a natural disaster
by promoting torture and unlawful confinement as valid practices of our government in our name
by trashing alliances with friendly nations
by fueling, aiding and abetting our enemies abroad
by placing their american face on our real enemies recruiting posters

aaahhh... I could go on but it wears my fingers to the nub... not to mention my heart.

The 10,000 Things

by Andrew C White (acwhite.nospam.@taconic.net) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:54:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah (4.00 / 8)

How nice. I've been locked away in a business conference all day and am just now getting to play catch up and enjoy the news of delay... er... umm... news of the day... uh... both.

Oh what a beautiful morning
Oh what a beautiful day
I've got a wonderful feeling
Tom DeLay is going away!

The 10,000 Things

by Andrew C White (acwhite.nospam.@taconic.net) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:48:34 PM EST

There's a dew on the grass in the meadow.... (4.00 / 6)

Lol....you're not the only one singing.

...something about Republicans going down in flames just calls for show tunes.

k/o

by kid oakland (kidoakland<AT>comcast<DOT>net) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 08:10:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mama's don't let your babues grow up... (4.00 / 6)

Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to Be Republicans

Republicans ain't easy to love and they're harder to indict
They'd rather give you a song and dance then honesty or truth
Lonestar belt buckles and old jaded slime attacks
And each night begins a new crime
If you don't understand him, and he don't die young
He'll probably just rot away in a jail

Chorus:
Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be republicans
Don't let 'em buy votes or drive bad laws through
Let 'em be doctors and lawyers and such
Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be republicans
'Cause they'll never stay true and they're always undone
Even by someone they love (themselves)

Republicans like smoky old DC restaurants and don't give a damn about no smoking laws
Little warm puppies and children and girls of the night
Them that know him won't like him and them that do
Sometimes won't know how to indict him
He ain't right, he's just greedy and crooked but his pride won't let him
Do things to make you think he's right

(repeat chorus)

The 10,000 Things

by Andrew C White (acwhite.nospam.@taconic.net) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 08:55:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

ok... I'm a big putz.

I can't crap on Cheers and Jeers community because I think Markos can go suck my septic tank clean.

This place is home. But I can't "let go" of some really great friends.

But I'm giving myself a time out and sticking close.

I need to go decompress some more. Leave it to Kos to make everyone upset after a great time of love and sharing.

But... I'm still very very pissed off with him.

Go fuck yourself Mr. Markos, go fuck yourself

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix

by Damnit Janet on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 08:20:02 PM EST

Stay babe! It is for you, not him (4.00 / 2)

I told him off and feel much better, said that if and when he ever wakes up and I get to share a cell with him that I reserve the right to punch him in the stomach just once over this SHIT. I said he was a wanker and I'd see him in hell and I said he was an arrogant motherfucking ass....maybe I'll be banned and I won't have to worry about trying to unsignup.

PMS Purchase More Shoes

by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 08:49:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This came today and we can't wait to send her (4.00 / 5)

PMS Purchase More Shoes

by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 09:04:54 PM EST

Re: This came today and we can't wait to send her (4.00 / 2)

"not be married and not be pregnant"

The 19th-century guidelines were "No horse, no wife, no moustache."

I've always heard that West Point was so terrific that they had zillions of applicants, had to beat them off with a stick. But this sounds as if they're having to do some beating of their own, of the bushes (you should pardon the expression), to find enough warm bodies. Interesting.

A politician is a man who will double cross that bridge when he comes to it. -- Oscar Levant

by Mnemosyne on Thu Sep 29th, 2005 at 01:37:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This came today and we can't wait to send her (none / 0)

Why can't candidates be married or have a legal obligation to support a dependent?

by catnip (llamg88 at hotmail.com) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 09:28:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This came today and we can't wait to send her (none / 1)

Because the military academies essentially OWN their cadets -- it's not just a college education they're offering, it's an intense, grueling, four-year indoctrination into the officer corps, complete with pleb harassment and (at least for the Naval Academy) time spent in the field (on a ship or submarine for the Naval Academy) acting as junior officers, which is considered part of the educational experience.

So they are looking for candidates who are committing themselves 110% -- without any outside obligations or "distractions" that might cause a conflict of interest with the cadet's commitment to the academy and the branch of the military it represents.

Does that necessarily get us the best officer candidates? That's debatable -- certainly academy grads are top-notch, but we get some very high-quality officers coming from non-military universities, or their ROTC programs. Academy admissions are steep -- the Naval Academy takes only two candidates per state, IIRC, so they get a pretty high-caliber group. But as we've seen in the news lately, the academies and their exclusive, highly competitive, immersive environments can also be ripe environments for abuse and harassment.

But that's why they want cadets without spouses or dependents. Cadets don't get much of a life outside the demands of classes, extra-curricular activities and upperclassmen during their tenure, so cadets worried about holding a marriage together or not seeing his or her children for months at a time are simply not good candidates for the program the academies offer, or the level of commitment they demand.

Keith Olbermann speaks for me.

by JanetT in MD on Thu Sep 29th, 2005 at 11:51:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Protest & Cindy (3.87 / 8)

Hi all --

I attended the Cindy Sheehan event at the University of Maryland last night (Tues eve). Oh, and I was interviewed on video for some conservative news outfit. Are you all interested in a diary? The focus would actually be on the relationship b/t students/universities and the impact of protests, more than anything else. My motivation in attending was to assess student activism.

by dblhelix on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:56:51 PM EST

Re: Protest & Cindy (4.00 / 4)

Fire away! I'd like to hear what the student reaction to all this is.

by CabinGirl on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 06:58:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Protest & Cindy (4.00 / 4)

Agreed. They are the future for better or worse and it's important to see where they stand.

"green grass and high tides forever"

by supersoling (colorsplash62@optonline.net) on Wed Sep 28th, 2005 at 07:17:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Open Thread | 98 comments (98 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)