I'm not going to tell you what to say, but here is what I think.

I think impeachment is important because of accountability.  So, I support impeachment.

However, there are so many people in this country right now suffering without health insurance, without employment, or without a place to rest their head.  In my eyes, that needs to be the number one priority.

Therefore, the most important thing is to be able to multitask.  I think it is both morally correct and politically savvy to promote an agenda that appeals to the voters that just put us in office by looking to fix immediate problems, but also sets the wheels in motion to hold people accountable for how we got here in the first place.

I guess what I'm saying is that I want to hold this majority for a long time, and push it towards the left.   If we focus on going after Bush / Cheney without addressing the problems they've created, our majority will be seen as vindictive and will be incredibly short lived.

If you would Please Thank them all for everything they`ve done so far & that with a crowd of that size & with their collective credentials, whatever they come up with, I trust will be right. You can include yourself in the thankees.

The difference between theists and atheists is that the atheists don't set the theists on fire for refusing to agree with them.

I think what you've been saying is basically right. The new Congress should do no-holds-barred investigations of the Regime's many dubious activities without ever saying the "I" word. The investigations and hearings come first, impeachment grows out of them if warranted.

I think for impeachment to have a chance, it's crucial not to jump the gun.  Let the non-congressional, non-party activist groups agitate for impeachment if they want to -- they can keep the issue in play and relieve elected Dems of looking like mad dogs. Keep Congress scrupulously neutral until and unless the facts justify the final step. If that means two years of hearings without getting to the big question, so be it.

FDR's response to progressive demands: "I agree. Now go out and make me do it."

No one has been more for impeachment for longer than I have, started to call for it in nearly as soon as he got elected.  I was shocked that he won.
Anyway, right now I am of the mind that to go gung ho on impeachment will just turn the whole congress into a mess and nothing will get done.  I am more inclined to seeing a criminal prosecution after he leaves office, but meanwhile congress should just proceed with investigations.
2004 would have made more sense if Dems. would have gotten power, but now we need to fix some of these messes and it would be easier to do if Bush wasn't under impeachment attack and then who knows what he might do.
I want healthcare, wages, voting problems, and most of all Iraq worked on right now.
I think your assesments of congress stuations right now are pretty right on as far as I am concerned.  
Personally I would like to see congress and bush  work together for the remainder of the term it would be such a mind blowing thing.  The way I see it he needs to work with Dems, cause they hold the Impeachment Power so that will be a great bargaining chip to have some changes and get some things done.

Click here to step into the Village Blue2

But it is still possible.  We Democrats will investigate and audit the Bush Administration's many misdeeds.  If these investigations lead to impeachable offenses, if we have solid and uncontroverted evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors that convinces 15 Republican Senators, then we will pursue impeachment proceedings and removal of office.

If we enter this Congress with impeachment as our number 1 goal without any investigation commenced, we will harden Republican opposition at once, thus guaranting no impeachment and removal.

I am not a lawyer, but I think I understand how the constitution can be changed.  It can only be changed by the intentionally convoluted and difficult amendment process.  No law-making body and no executive authority can just arbitrarily choose to change this basic rights and how-to document which is at the very heart of our society.  Therefore, any law-making body or any executive that has clearly violated this constitutional document must be held accountable as both a learning experience and as a deterrence for the future.  

In the case of Congress, the courts should be striking down unconstitutional laws (fill in the blank with the laws passed under Bush), and the Congress should be instructed on why they were out-of-order laws.

In the case of executive authority, crimes have been committed when the constitution was ignored, IMO.  Now I have no idea why the courts have been so slow to act against some of these executive constitutional abuses by Bush (i.e. Hamdi case, illegal wiretaps, other due process violations)) and maybe the courts are becoming contaminated by zealots who themselves don't recognize the constitution, but where it can be shown that the constitution was indeed violated by this administration, that should be clear grounds for impeachment.  

Finding and documenting these constitutional violations by Bush should be the purpose of this group. The ACLU surely can also help, but ultimately the US courts must be willing to stand-up for the constitution and to publicly stress where the violations of late have been!

but aren't we paying these guys to do more than one thing at a time. I do understand holding back on screaming Impeachment right away but let's get started on the hearings asap. I think its hard for us at this point to realise we do have the power now. It has been so long though that we are still acting timid and tiptoeing around.

What about the motto that brought us all here together at the pond? "We won't rest until they are frog marched out"?

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.

Well of course we must have investigations before we have impeachment.

Impeachment should be reserved for serious breaches of power and it appears that this adminsitration's behavior would qualify.  But it has to be done right.

What concerns me about some of the conversation above that there is a thread of "we can't be to bold."

I've heard the apologies about the current spineless Dems.  "They don't have the power." "Wait until we take congress."  Now the conversation seems to be: "We can't piss people off.  We might lose the 2008 election.

Sieze the day. Be responsible. Be principled.  Take action.

If you want things to get better, be prepared to deal with change.

Boo, if you haven't already, this series by KagroX is a MUST READ before you participate in this forum.  

I understand everyone's apprehension about appearing over-zealous and out for revenge, and there definitely is a systematic way in which the entire process should unfold, but this is a road that we HAVE to go down.  Done properly, the American people will come along, and we will have preempted a repeat of this nightmare, if not worse, in the future.  

In the context of history, and the future of this country, it is imperative that we get this right.

On the Necessity of Impeachment -- Part I
On the Necessity of Impeachment -- Part II
On the Necessity of Impeachment -- Part III
On the Necessity of Impeachment -- Part IV
On the Necessity of Impeachment -- Part V

Impeachment Myth Exploded: Investigate First? Why?


The penalty good men pay for not being interested in politics is to be governed by men worse than themselves. -- Plato

Cool gig!  What are you going to say, BooMan?

"Have you no sense of decency, sir. At long last, have you left no sense of decency?" -- Boston Attorney Joseph Welch, taking down Sen. Joseph McCarthy.

Tell them to make sure that with the final vote cast in the Senate Bush and Cheney are both impeached at exactly the same time!

Oops, that's what Bush should say.

From behind bars.

I for one welcome our new Twitter overlords. @Omir55

All I want is the persons in charge to testify under OATH as to why Iraq, NSA wiretapping, fudging numbers medicare part D, big Oil record profts, Gonzo and torture.

If those asked to testify seek cover under the fifth amendment then we need a special prosecutor. Otherwise, don't waste our time and money with impeachment.

Investigate, use over sight and correct the wrongs that have been done to civil rights by the current regime.  Impeachment hearings would only slow things down even more and probably be a total waste without the background work first.  I would rather see them take down the Republican leadership and then go after Bush & Co.  Expose the party for the crooks they are and throw them in jail.  

As much as I would love Bush to be impeached,  I don't want it done unless Cheney and Rove are taken care of first.  I am satisfied that the bastard's hands are effectively tied for his last two years in office.  I also do not want the Democratic Party to look like a bunch of vindictive jerks like the Repugnants.  If they find all the evidence and can prove a good case, then go for it.  This should not be a first or primary concern for the new congress.

Doing My Part For The Left

This movement is on target.  Public sentiment is there already.  But the public in many key Republican states is not aware of how serious the actions of Bush and Cheney have threatened the Constitution.  There is a process of public education that must occur, and occur in the face of corporate media wanting to stop this movement.

But the list should not be limited to Bush and Cheney.  It must include everyone who brought us to a Constitutional crisis.  Any formal or current public official who ignored the Constitution should be impeached as well.  Among those are Albert Gonzales, Donald Rumsfeld, John Ashcroft, and the list goes on and on down to the junior Elephants who were the enablers of extra-Constitutional and extra-judicial actions on the instructions of the president.

To understand who these folks are, we need investigations.

And we need to protect Nancy Pelosi, who could become president on conviction of Bush and Cheney and thus has a self-interest in the proceedings, from being caught up in the political controversy over impeachment.  Which means the public is going to have to pressure the Congress to act, and not just a small minority of the public.  Like I said above, there is a massive public education task ahead of us.  It is up to us and not Nancy Pelosi to do that.

And remember.  A public official still can be impeached after leaving office.  And impeachment prevents a person from ever again serving in a position of public trust.

50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

Sounds like Boo will have a very interesting weekend. I think the sense of the new Democratic Leadership in Congress is similar to what I have read on this thread. We have a lot of work to do, let's get started. We will provide congressional oversight. There will be investigations. Impeachment is not an immediate goal, but could become one depending on what is revealed in the hearings. In the meantime, we need to do some constitution repairing, some international diplomacy, (remember when we were good at that?)and some progressive legislating. At this point, I am very confident that the Democrats appreciate exactly where they stand, and what the majority of the country expects. In the end, GW may get impeached, but there is a lot of water to go under the bridge first.

We need to push for Progressive change, now more than ever.

calvin thinks that King George II is lucky that he rules a nominal democracy and not a kingdom.  For if what happened on Tuesday had happened on the street instead of at the ballot box, he may well have met the same fate as King Louis XIV.  Instead, Rummy was the sacrificial lamb substituting, temporarily, for the king

Calls for impeachment led by Democrats would be unseemly at this point in time.  Much better for him to be on display in the public square in the middle of his dirty laundry.  He would be completely, totally and utterly ruined.  At that point, impeachment would seem to be like Euthanasia, a merciful way out.

Premature impeachment calls would merely make him a martyr and give the now depressed minority a cause celebre.  That's not going to solve the problems that Democrats were elected to deal with.  That's job one.  Especially if Democrats would like to be control for more than two years.

Americans want justice, but also due process.  If Bush is guilty, it has to be beyond reasonable doubt.  Let Hannity and Limbaugh lead the charge when the evidence becomes overwhelming and the stench beyond the pale.  

Perhaps Mr. Fitzgerald might be a good choice to head up an investigation or two.  Just a thought.

calvinthecat

We've waited 3 years or more too long already.  The evidence has already been compiled.  Impeachment is equavalent to indictment.  In other words, all you need is enough evidence to warrant a trial.  Let's get it done.

http://impeachforpeace.org/evidence/

IMPEACH the whole lot of those motherfuckers.  Investigate all you want, but it's going to lead to impeachment in the end.  It's gotta be done.

--
Albert Yee
Philadelphia, PA
http://dragonballyee.com/blog

好~!

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