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Gut-Check Time on Immigration

by Man Eegee
Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 02:26:25 AM EST

After lurking at several liberal political blogs over the past few years, I quickly realized that the issue of immigration reform was one of those taboo subjects that rarely got any attention. Diaries on the subject were sure to either disappear into the ignored/unmentioned ether or ignite into a massive flame-war until both sides finally threw up their arms in disgust and walked away to other pressing topics.

When Booman Tribune opened up for business in March 2005, I jumped right into the fray and decided that I would try to focus my attention on a humane and just viewpoint on immigration reform. My first big diary, The Immigration Crisis, was so well-received, that I did a follow-up to it a month later when Jon Kyl and John Cornyn released S.1438, a hard-lined answer to the bipartisan bill offered by John McCain and Ted Kennedy.

Now, eight months later, the immigration storm clouds have finally gathered enough strength to draw the lines in the desert sand and force the American public decide where they stand, and more importantly why.

continued below the fold...

Through a well-organized and concerted effort by human rights groups that serve the Latino population in the United States, rallies and marches have been staged in cities all across America, demanding an end to the hate-mongering string of bills that have been working their way through the Republican-led Congress.

Will the liberal left join bigot-filled groups like the Minutemen and American Patrol in reacting negatively to these powerful demonstrations of democracy? Will you join your voices with the likes of these commenters at the Arizona Republic's Blogizona?:

Comment from: jeanne7272 - 03/24/06 @ 15:50
Not just no, BUT HELL NO! We have existing immigration laws in this country which have been totally ignored and now we have hundreds of thousands of ILLEGALS waving the MEXICAN flag and protesting on AMERICAN SOIL? This is just wrong, these people are law breakers and ICE should be there hauling their butts right back to Mexico and dropping them off at Vicente Fox's front door! AMERICANS, we can't let ILLEGALS dictate our border policies to us! They don't have the right to be here in the first place! I am afraid these protesters are going to start a HUGE mess in this country! TAKE YOUR MEXICAN FLAG AND FLY IT IN MEXICO WHERE IT BELONGS, NOT ON U.S. PROPERTY!

Comment from: Jaime3766 - 03/24/06 @ 18:29
And what about crime here in Arizona? Ever notice that most crimes we hear about here are committed by someone with a Hispanic last name? Don't tell me that crime levels wouldn't drop if illegals weren't sent back to Mexico.

You see, in a black-and-white world for people like Jaime3766, any person with a Hispanic last name is 1) automatically illegal and 2) a criminal. As someone who is neither of those two and also blessed with a Hispanic surname, you can see why I would take exception to her calls for expulsion and blatant xenophobia.

American exceptionalism is driving the adverse reactions to the images that have been played out in cities like Chicago, Philadelphia, Trenton, Washington, D.C., Knoxville, Milwaukee, Tucson, Phoenix, Denver, Atlanta, San Francisco, Kansas City (KS), Columbus, New York City, Houston, and Los Angeles.

To be perfectly honest, it reminds me of reading stories of slaves owners in the civil war era who were offended and appalled that the slaves would dare demand some semblance of dignity. "How dare they? Who do they think they are?"

The echo in my ears from one of the gritos at today's Tucson rally provides an answer:

¡No Somos Enemigos, Somos Tus Amigos!

We are not enemies, we are your friends.

Indeed.

I implore the left and moderate ends of the political spectrum in the United States to consider the humanity of these people who are merely asking for a chance to ensure the survival and prosperity of their families. The debate on immigration has been dominated by bigots like James Sensenbrenner, Russell Pearce and Chris Simcox. It is now time to let the targets of their ire have their say, and clue-in the American public on the reasons they have risked their lives and livelihood to come to the United States.

One of the signs at today's rally was very simple, and was held by the hands of young girl who was no more than ten years old: "I want to be a doctor."

Will you respond to her as an American exceptionalist and deny her a path to succeed or as a human being who recognizes that we all have have a right to follow our dreams?

It's gut-check time, my friends. There are no borders when it comes to love.

Crossposted from my humble blog and Migra Matters

immigration HR4437

Gut-Check Time on Immigration | 35 comments (35 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Modeling my BooTrib t-shirt at the rally :) (4.00 / 28)

The woman in the picture is Isabel Garcia of Derechos Humanos.

We are condemned to kill time, thus we die bit by bit - Octavio Paz / Latino Político

by Man Eegee (man.eegee at gmail dot com) on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 02:29:22 AM EST

Re: Modeling my BooTrib t-shirt at the rally :) (4.00 / 12)

link

"It was horrible, horrible," Mason said. "It's ridiculous that a bunch of black students would jump on Latinos like that, knowing they're trying to get their freedom."
In Phoenix, police said 10,000 demonstrators marched to the office of Republican Sen. Jon Kyl, co-sponsor of a bill that would give illegal immigrants up to five years to leave the country. The turnout clogged a major thoroughfare.
"They're here for the American Dream," said Malissa Greer, 29, who joined a crowd estimated by police to be at least 10,000 strong. "God created all of us. He's not a God of the United States, he's a God of the world."

"First, they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win." Mahatma Gandhi

by Street Kid on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 03:13:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for the link, Street Kid (4.00 / 13)

Kyl finally released a statement today, punting responsibility as usual

Kyl responded to the protest by pointing out that most were speaking out against the House bill making it a felony to be an illegal immigrant, not his bill.
"They (protesters) should be pleased that the Senate is probably going to address this in a much more comprehensive way," Kyl told the Tucson Citizen newspaper during a meeting with its editorial board.

His counterpart Cornyn vowed to oppose the bipartisan bill sponsored by McCain and Kennedy. I predict alot of fireworks in the days to come, especially after they get a glimpse of the humongous crowd that will be marching in Los Angeles today (Saturday).

We are condemned to kill time, thus we die bit by bit - Octavio Paz / Latino Político

by Man Eegee (man.eegee at gmail dot com) on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 03:28:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the link, Street Kid (4.00 / 10)

Glad you could use it. I used to live in SW Detroit (when I was in grad school). SW Detroit is referred to as Mexicantown, and has a large Hispanic population. Sadly, it is also one of the roughest and poorest parts of Detroit.

Have been wondering if there has been anything going on down there...

"First, they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win." Mahatma Gandhi

by Street Kid on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 03:44:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Modeling my BooTrib t-shirt at the rally :) (none / 1)

I love both your shirts :)

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix

by Damnit Janet on Sun Mar 26th, 2006 at 08:01:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A more direct link to article ref above; (4.00 / 11)

Immigration Rallies Draw Thousands Nationwide

I used to work in N CA ag industry, and for the life of me I can't figure out how CA agriculture, to name one, will survive if indeed "they" do find a way to send illegals back to their home country.

And then besides that you've got other industries such as logging and motel/hotel industries which would have serious difficulties with staffing.

There have to be some R business owners who would suffer economic loss should this come to pass. I wonder what they'll do when the time comes to put up or shut up.

There are no end of serious humanitarian issues involved with current proposed legislation. And, it's sure starting to smell like the gay-marriage whooopla that was created prior to the 2004 election.

The variety and the degree of turmoil now occurring in this country is becoming increasingly difficult to comprehend.

Nonviolent Action information available here

by NorthDakotaDemocrat (NorthDakotaDemocrat at g mail dot com) on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 04:00:59 AM EST

There is a whole lot that would not survive (4.00 / 13)

Like the economy. This is right up there with China calling in its debt.

And those republican business owners have no intention of "sending them back."

Even if they did, the numbers are too large. Nobody knows the number, but the twelve million is in my opinion, somewhere between a polite fiction and a "hoot," as they say in the southern US.

What they wish to do is murder, imprison and otherwise torment a large enough number to satisfy those who complain about immigrants while enjoying, on the backs of those immigrants, their ten dollar lunches and their fifty dollar landscaped lawns, etc.

They wish to set up these obstacle courses and mined fields for people desperate enough to brave them, and those who make it through, they will use them, but at the same time they wish to feed the basest anti-Other sentiments felt by they themselves and their like-minded constituents, clients, and colleagues.

It is a phenomenon so ugly that as with my admiration for Man Eegee's work and word writing, I am again at a loss for adjectives. It is a thing so despicable that its consequences are similarly not amenable to accurate description.

It is, however, a phenomenon to whose defeat, in the long run, all who live in the Americas may owe the existence of that long run, for starters, and from that defeat, the beginnings of a nation may be born.

That is my prayer and my hope.

one man's conspiracy is another man's business plan
Blog updated as needed

by DuctapeFatwa (DuctapeFatwa@yahoo.com) on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 05:51:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (4.00 / 10)

Well if the hard-line Republicans want to make immigration a wedge issue...it may just be wedge that takes them out of power. I think a lot has changed since 1996 when they got away with this once before.

Keep up the good work Manny.

by americanforliberty on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 04:18:30 AM EST

First, thank you for this article (4.00 / 12)

My admiration for you is rapidly surpassing what I had thought was a fairly respectable arsenal of adjectives.

Second, I regret to say that from my own anecdotal travels around the internet, the sentiments expressed in the posts from the Arizona blog you quoted appear to be echoed nationally. The "they broke the law" crap I have seen on many websites that purport to be "progressive," including one that aspires to association with the Democratic party.

These liberal white folks have nothing against Mexicans, as long as they stay in Mexico. While the more racist attitudes may be phrased in politer, more "educated," and oblique language, and with the exception of some objections to some of the more absurd provisions of the Sensenbrenner bill, I do not see a wide gap between sentiments expressed by those who consider themselves "liberals," "conservatives," "Republicans," or "Democrats" on this issue.

Victory will be won on the backs of the sons and daughters of the indigenous people, I do not believe there will be significant support from any Estadosunidense political faction other than immigrants who have at some point, purchased their papers from Washington and/or been here so long that they now have adult descendants who were born in the US. They can, I believe, be counted on, as can many if not most of their children. Only when that victory is close enough to touch will you see the "liberals" join the marches in great numbers, and announce themselves as proud authors of the struggle. ;)

I also believe that every person of good will who saw the little girl, or hears of her as I did, from you, will feel something in their hearts take life, and a new force run through their veins: she WILL be a doctor.

The term "amnesty" is offensive to me. It should be called "apology and acceptance."

This comment crossposted at Man Eegee's humble blog.

one man's conspiracy is another man's business plan
Blog updated as needed

by DuctapeFatwa (DuctapeFatwa@yahoo.com) on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 05:36:37 AM EST

Re: First, thank you for this article (4.00 / 10)

I have been saddened by the LouDobbsian venom that is spilling out of the mouths of people whose great-grandparents came to the US by way of Ireland, Poland, Germany, Scotland, Great Britain etc.

North Carolina is one of the states that has experienced a large increase in it's Hispanic population over the past decade and is having a good deal of difficulty welcoming them with good grace. There is grumbling about "them" taking "our" jobs away and crowding the already bursting public school system.

They are the most visible yet invisible population here. They are the landscapers, the migrant workers, the hotel maids, the cleaning women in ridiculously flashy homes. Yet when they are out shopping or watching their kids play soccer no one looks them in the eye. I'm ashamed.

by Second Nature (denn1214 at gmail) on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 08:13:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: First, thank you for this article (4.00 / 7)

When I hear comments like "they're taking our jobs", I always want to reply*, "oh, you pick strawberries for a living?"

To "send them back where they came from", I feel like saying, "well, get grandma out in the fields then, because I want cheap grapes".

Those jobs are stereotypes, I know, but I don't think people realize how much the economy depends on illegal immigrants. There's a reason Bush and a lot of businesses don't support this type of legislation. The only reason Republicans do support it is because it gives their base someone to hate during an election cycle.

If our government had a brain, we'd have a sensible guest worker program. My understanding is that Canada has a program where workers are allowed into Canada for a period of time (say 7 months). During the time, they work, are covered under labor and wage laws (!) and Canada's medical system. When their time is up, they go home. Continuing to work under the program is contingent upon them going home for the rest of the year. I'm not sure if there are provisions for permanent residence or not.

To me, this is so much more sensible than having an entire underclass whose suffering subsidizes the middle class's lifestyle. But, any sort of sensible solution would require doing something more than hating, which seems impossible in the current political climate.

*Anyone who knows me even a little knows better than to say things like that around me, so I never get to use my lines.

I'd rather own books that I don't read than clothes I don't wear." -- Jonathan Safran Foer

by mlr701 (mlr701atgmaildotcom) on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 09:36:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (4.00 / 12)

Great diary.

I must say that I believe in the rule of law -- for the President of the United States and for immigrants. That said, sometimes laws are screwed up and need to be changed. Once unions were illegal but slavery was not. I say fix the laws immigration.

The sad truth is that I don't believe that most people will get on the humane side of this issue out of the goodness of their hearts. However, if we can get them to drop the fear for a moment and take a deep breath, we might convince the more reasonable that it is in THEIR best interest to solve this issue.

Aliens are easily exploited by employers -- whether they are working the most "menial" jobs or more "exhalted" ones. Whether they are here legally or not. A few years ago NBC tried to keep its Telemundo newscasters in Chicago from joining AFTRA. Although these people worked in the same facilities as the Anglo newsfolk, somehow the fact that they were Latino meant they could be paid less and have fewer protections. The reporters took a very brave stand and challenged NBC. Why was this brave? Because NBC was sponsoring them and had great power over whether or not they could remain in this country.

I believe that the war on immigrants is part of the greater war on workers being waged by corporate America. The more workers at the bottom of the economic food chain can be exploited, the more corporations can demand concessions from those above them.

I hope liberals, moderates and centrists all support immigrant rights and a more reasonable humane set of laws. Liberals seen definitely UNINTERESTED in labor issue per se. I hope they will unite aroung immigration issues.

P.S. Labor history note: This is the anniversary of the 1911 Triangle fire that killed numerous young immigrant (mostly females) in a sweatshop fire.

If you want things to get better, be prepared to deal with change.

by Kahli on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 08:10:51 AM EST

Thanks for your (4.00 / 7)

comment, Kahli. I completely agree with you on this:

I believe that the war on immigrants is part of the greater war on workers being waged by corporate America. The more workers at the bottom of the economic food chain can be exploited, the more corporations can demand concessions from those above them.

We are condemned to kill time, thus we die bit by bit - Octavio Paz / Latino Político

by Man Eegee (man.eegee at gmail dot com) on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 12:47:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (4.00 / 15)

I am woefully uninformed on these issues Manny. To my discredit. My attentions have been exhausted fighting this war. But I want to do more. My group is against "war and injustice." And we have had some presence from our local peace teams in traveling to the border region during the ongoings with the "Minutemen."

But I've had a pretty transformative week demonstrating against the war. I completely believe in the power of the people to set this issue right (though I still need to understand the issue well enough to tell others where we need to be). So I'll look to you for more info on how best the Lansing community might address this issue. And try to weave it into part of our larger movement here.

You are a warrior for peace and justice. Stay strong.

"Have you no sense of decency, sir. At long last, have you left no sense of decency?" -- Boston Attorney Joseph Welch, taking down Sen. Joseph McCarthy.

by BostonJoe on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 09:35:22 AM EST

I guess what (4.00 / 7)

I'm asking is for people to take the time to educate themselves on the full aspects of each bill, and consider the human and practical outcomes of actions such as building the Great Wall of America and the sudden loss of most of the agricultural field workers (as an example).

I would look for any statewide groups in Michigan that specifically work with the Latino population and talk to them. Listen to their reasons for their advocacy and perhaps join them in periodic events such as rallies/protests/petitions for better worker protections for all people.

Immigration is not a Latino issue per se, but the network of their agencies across the country are leading the fight to balance the debate.

We are condemned to kill time, thus we die bit by bit - Octavio Paz / Latino Político

by Man Eegee (man.eegee at gmail dot com) on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 12:41:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Breaking through the media blackout (4.00 / 6)

Mainstream media simply do not pay any attention when immigrants speak for themselves instead of through advocates or politicians. Here in San Francisco, today the SF Chronicle finally has a tiny mention of the ongoing immigrant hunger strike outside the Federal Building on page B-2. It gives the front page, A-1, over to a picture of suburban white evangelicals imported into the city yesterday for a rally to denounce urban degeneracy.

Mann Eegee has already linked to this but I'll do it again: Many more pictures and links about San Francisco hunger strike here.

Can It Happen Here?

by janinsanfran on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 01:03:48 PM EST

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (4.00 / 4)

I was thrilled to see the marches pictured on my US Google news early this morning - the first visual image that I've seen without hunting for it.

Great diary, Manny. Ok, I've been staying away, but this cuts it: I've got to talk about my students. More, later.

Mil gracias.

by Kidspeak on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 01:55:27 PM EST

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (4.00 / 2)

GOP poll numbers are falling, Bush's are falling faster, the War on Iraq ain't working, the War on Terror's run out of oomph, they're losing the War on Drugs, and they've run out of new wars to start without all KINDS of backlash.

So isn't it a good thing that they've still got the old standby War on Poor Dark Southern People to fall back on?

"Venezuelan Tanks On the Rio Grande in two years, folks..."

Every third American devotes himself to improving and uplifting his fellow citizen, usually by force. -- H.L. Mencken

by stormkite on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 04:07:49 PM EST

Re: Venezuelan Tanks On the Rio Grande (4.00 / 3)

Hey, we can dream... ;->

one man's conspiracy is another man's business plan
Blog updated as needed

by DuctapeFatwa (DuctapeFatwa@yahoo.com) on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 05:07:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Venezuelan Tanks On the Rio Grande (4.00 / 3)

Won't Happen.

Hugo's got better things to spend oil money on than taking over recalcitrant dictatorships.

Like the needs of his own country and its people.

(Of course Hugo was also elected; maybe that matters.)

Every third American devotes himself to improving and uplifting his fellow citizen, usually by force. -- H.L. Mencken

by stormkite on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 05:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (4.00 / 2)

You're certainly right Manny when you say this topic is one of those button pushing issues. I know I've been called one of those dastardly bleeding heart libruls for years when daring to say in just regular conversations--why pick on the immigrants, how bout getting mad at the people hiring them if you want to be fair about it...and I usually just get these blank looks back at me as if I said something truly unpatriotic.

Yeah that 'taking our jobs' crap really drives me up the wall....like ok..how bout you go pick tomatoes for 45 fucken cents per 32 pound bushel..yeah that's right, that's what either Taco Bell or McDonalds(contractors) pays people who pick tomatoes for them. We need a tomato boycott like the grape boycott it seems to me.

'Poverty is the worst form of violence'--Gandhi

by chocolate ink on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 04:12:01 PM EST

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (4.00 / 3)

Building walls. What a concept - and I have to wonder was this idea stolen from the old East Berlin or most recently from Israel?

Now AIPAC don't go painting me anti-semitic. I'm one of the 12 tribes but I've quickly become ashamed of my mother's lineage.

Not well publicized is that this idea of wall building is also proposed for the US -Canadian border!!!. Thing is, I'll be caught smack in the middle of it, unless of course our houses - my neighbors, family and friends are taken without just compensation. You see the international boundary runs right through these houses and properties. Kitchen or living room in Canada, rest of the house in USA or the reverse.

Our Canadians think we've become paranoid. We're building fortress USA. Yea, that'll keep us safe.
Vermont farmers need 'guest workers' Can't find local help.

We forget our forefathers were immigrants-give us your poor. We've become fat and bigoted, living off the Chinese, Japanese and the savings of the rest of the world's poor. Stay out we now say, Just send us your money $2.5 billion a day.

If you really doubt what we've become go read
Illegal Immigrants Bill
There is a Higher Law: Welcome the Stranger

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 05:16:53 PM EST

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (4.00 / 2)

We were at the Los Angeles rally and march today - modest estimates at 200,000 - but I think it was much larger. It took two hours for us to march 9 blocks north on Broadway. We didn't see how civic center could accommodate all the marchers (we didn't even try to go that far). Making our way west to find a bus, we saw another march going south, probably the overflow from the protesters at city hall returning parallel to the original route.

Los Angeles is home to many Central Americans, thanks to Reagan's foreign policy in the 80s. Interspersed with the cries of Viva Mexico were Viva Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua - a very moving experience.

Just announced on the radio (KPFK) that a million people were at the Los Angeles rally.

One poster read "our governor is an immigrant" - but he is one immigrant that I wish had stayed home.

by venice ca on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 08:11:57 PM EST

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (none / 1)

There's a picture of the LA march on Manny's site and the crowd looks enormous.

by maryb2004 on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 08:15:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (none / 0)

The #1 rec'd diary right now over at dKos is about it too, and has several pictures.

link

Tengo un sueño.

by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 08:52:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (none / 1)

OMG that picture at the top is amazing. That looks like way more than 500,000 to me.

by maryb2004 on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 08:56:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (none / 1)

Hard to tell on numbers in a picture like that, but I agree, it is amazing.

Tengo un sueño.

by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 08:58:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (none / 1)

I clicked through to the LA times site too. Those signs that look like American flags with the picture of immigrants' kids where the stars should be are REALLY good.

by maryb2004 on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 09:02:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (none / 1)

Another good diary up on dKos with a first person account. And she asks why she was one of the few anglos present. AND she links to Manny's diary (but at dPluribus Media, not here at BT).

by maryb2004 on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 10:19:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (none / 1)

I believe one of the reasons that there were relatively few anglos present is the same reason that the police were surprised at the numbers...that the rally was advertised only on Spanish radio stations.

Vive la resistencia!

Tengo un sueño.

by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Sat Mar 25th, 2006 at 10:25:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (none / 1)

They most likely decided that the number of participants they'd get from PSA's or ads on Anglo stations would be negligible compared to the number of undercover law enforcement or other potential troublemakers they'd attract.

I suspect they'd be right, which is a comment on its own.

Every third American devotes himself to improving and uplifting his fellow citizen, usually by force. -- H.L. Mencken

by stormkite on Sun Mar 26th, 2006 at 12:03:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (none / 0)

thanks for the link, I'd have likely missed the LA article otherwise. Printing it out now for my nonblogging brother who used to teach Spanish.

Nonviolent Action information available here

by NorthDakotaDemocrat (NorthDakotaDemocrat at g mail dot com) on Sun Mar 26th, 2006 at 05:02:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bring em On. They will teach us more than we teach (4.00 / 2)

I have lived in Mexico. In my opinion any immigration of Mexicans to the United States is an upgrade for the United States. These people are better than Americans. Americans are by and large among the most selfish, self centered, souless people on earth.

Mexico is not portrayed accurately. It is much safer to live in Mexico than the United States. The people are more civil. (There is cable TV and internet in practically every small village by the way.)

People do not try to cheat you. The woman are very beautiful, (not as portrayed on cheesey Mexican soap operas.)

The people are not naive and are much more profound than Amercians generally. The culture is much deeper and more interesting than American culture with the misunderstood and misrepresented role of the indian groups who were more advanced in many ways than the filthy Conquistadors who are portrayed as being superior and who were clearly inferior in most repects.

I have had a Professor of History tell me that the Aztecs and Incans were "stone age people". You are considered stone age by historians if you have not learned to make bronze. He thought that 500 conquistadors defeated the Aztecs. He didn't know that the Conquistadors had up to 20.000 other indians helping them and that the Incans had in fact used bronze.

So it's just impossible.

Mexico has places like Tepotzlan, San Miguel de Allende, Oxaca. These are beautiful places.

Central Buenos Aires is another "Mexican" city, I guess for most Americans and is the most beautiful city in this hemisphere. It is amazing that no one speaks about this in the press or in travel guides. This should be common knowledge. It's a 24 hours city, busy every minute of the day and nightThere is no comparison with San Franscisco with it's beauty and it is more vital than New York with fewer people sleeping on the streets than either city.

by Stew Piddy on Sun Mar 26th, 2006 at 11:33:52 AM EST

Re: Gut-Check Time on Immigration (none / 1)

((((Manny))))

Stop all the killing. Stop all the wars!! Stop racism!

And I love what you said at the end "There are no borders when it comes to love.

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix

by Damnit Janet on Sun Mar 26th, 2006 at 07:59:33 PM EST

Hi everyone (none / 1)

sorry I've been MIA the past couple of days, I appreciate all your commentary on this complex issue.

We are condemned to kill time, thus we die bit by bit - Octavio Paz / Latino Político

by Man Eegee (man.eegee at gmail dot com) on Sun Mar 26th, 2006 at 11:12:37 PM EST

Gut-Check Time on Immigration | 35 comments (35 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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NEW FAVORITES
Selected new arrivals at 30% off

Recommended by Indianadem and ejmw:
The Conscience of a Liberal
by Paul Wellstone

From northcountry’s bookshelf:

The New Golden Age:
The Coming Revolution Against
Political Corruption and Economic Chaos by Ravi Batra

A novel about contractors in Iraq from the woman that runs The Spy That Billed Me:

Outsourced: A Novel
from RJ Hillhouse.

Great Deals
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Find mystery novels by Nancy Pickard ("Kansas")

Challenging Empire: How People, Governments, and the UN Defy US Power by Phyllis Bennis (interviewed on DN!)

Featured by Keith Olbermann, New (Powell's Sale): Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower by William Blum (whose other books merit serious consideration)

"Explosive" State of War: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration
by James Risen

The book the CIA doesn't want you to read: Jawbreaker: The Attack on Bin Laden and Al Qaeda: A Personal Account by the CIA's Key Field Commander
Larry Johnson's review

BT's all-time best seller:

PERMACULTURE:
A Designers' Manual
$79.95 * Sale: $59.95

Unequal Sisters: A Multicultural Reader in U.S. Women's History (Third Edition)

The Undercover Economist: Exposing Why the Rich Are Rich, the Poor Are Poor And Why You Can Never Buy a Decent Used Car!

The Worst Hard Time: The Untold Story of Those Who Survived the Great American Dust Bowl
by Timothy Egan

Green Press Initiative
----- * ^ * -----

Journalistas: 100 Years of the Best Writing and Reporting by Women Journalists by Eleanor Mills * NYT review

Bury Me Standing: the Gypsies & Their Journey

1491: New Revelations of the Americas before Columbus

Brokeback Mountain
by Annie Proulx
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Check out Powell's
"At The Movies"

Imperial Ambitions: Conversations on the Post-9/11 World by Noam Chomsky (Power & Terror: Post 9-11 Talks)

The Price of Privilege:

How Parental Pressure and
Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of
Disconnected and Unhappy Kids
by Madeline Levine

Save 35-70% on
name brand clothing,
footwear, and outdoor gear
at SierraTradingPost.com
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We listened to PEN American Center's "State of Emergency" and found 1940s books by Curzio Malaparte only at Alibris. (Selection (MP3) excerpted from "The Skin.")

Banned Books * Are you a fan of Film Noir, Art House, Documentaries or Hong Kong Action? * Searching for a long-lost children's book or a first printing of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue on vinyl? Find it at Alibris!

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