Booman Tribune

Illegal Voting Machines Used in Busby/Bilbray Election (CA-50)

by Steven D
Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 10:10:14 AM EST

What if I told you that electronic voting machines previously decertified in California because of all of their security flaws had recently been re-certified by a Republican Secretary of State.

Suppose I then said that, even so, this GOP official, recognizing the danger that such flawed electronic voting machines could be easily tampered with, issued strict procedures that must be followed before they could be used in any elections. Assume that these requirements included keeping a strict chain of custody for, and the secure storage of, all programmable memory chips used by these voting machines, and that any failure to comply with such security protocols would result in their automatic de-certification, making them invalid for use in any election.

Now imagine that what I've described is precisely what happened in a special election to replace a Republican Congressman and convicted felon, and that, strangely enough, the Republican candidate defeated his Democratic rival by a few thousand votes. Further imagine that no official has expressed the least concern about the illegal use of these voting machines, including the very Secretary of State who issued the orders which were so flagrantly violated.

Unbelievable, right? Well, that's exactly what Brad Friedman of Brad Blog has reported occurred in the election to replace Randall "Duke" Cunningham in CA-50.

(Cont. below the fold)

The electronic Diebold voting systems used in the special run-off election last week for California's 50th U.S. House district were effectively 'decertified' and invalidated for use in the election after massive security breaches in the storage of those systems were sanctioned by the San Diego County Registrar of Voters, The BRAD BLOG can now conclude.

Based on the review of several different very specific state and federal requirements, laws and provisions, the unsecured overnight storage of Diebold voting machines and their memory cards in poll workers houses, cars and garages in the days and weeks prior to the closely watched election between Republican Brian Bilbray and Democrat Francine Busby violated several federal and state provisions which, if not followed, would revoke the certification of use for the voting systems in any California election.

In the wake of discussions yesterday with SD County Registrar Mikel Haas, who admitted to The BRAD BLOG that storage in poll workers' cars could not be considered secure, it has now become clear that several violations of certified provisions of use for Diebold voting machines — which have been found and confirmed in the past several months to be highly tamperable by dozens of methods and by the company's own admissions — occurred in last week's race…

I have no way of knowing if indeed the election between the Democratic nominee, Francine Busby and her Republican counterpart, Brian Bilbray (who won the election by about 4000 votes) was affected by this strange and illegal behavior on the part of San Diego County and its Registrar of Voters, Mikel Haas, but at the very least, it calls into question the result of that election.

I strongly urge you to read the entire post by Brad Friedman of Brad Blog, because he provides a litany of problems that have ensued from the use of these optical scan and touch screen Diebold machines in districts across the country. He also lays out in detail the relevant California and Federal election laws that were violated by San Diego County when it permitted its poll workers to keep these machines at their homes, or in the cars, some for as long as a week prior to election day. Yet when Brad Friedman spoke with the Registrar for San Diego County, Mikel Haas, he seemed remarkably unconcerned that his actions violated the strict security protocols issued by Secretary McPherson's office and resulted in automatic de-certification of the very machines used in the Bilbray/Busby special election:

. . . When I asked Haas if that vulnerability alone might give him reason to be concerned about the integrity of the voting systems he then used in last week's election, he rejected the suggestion.

Since a PCMCIA card can be inserted with the necessary files into that unsealed slot and the power button turned on (all that's needed to overwrite the software) doesn't that vulnerability trouble you, I asked him.

"I don't know….I think it's highly improbable," he said.

"Improbable?" I wondered. "I'm not asking if it's probable or not, but if it's possible…"

His reply blew me away: "I don't think so, because you'd have to want to commit a felony, which knocks out most of our poll workers."

(Pausing here for effect to let you think about that.)

When I mentioned several cases were poll workers recently have been indicted for election fraud, he stated he was unaware of any such cases. I pointed him towards three officials recently indicted in Cuyahoga County, OH and explained the situation to him. He was unphased and seemingly uninterested.

"I'm sure they could stick something in the system…Whether it's detectable or not, I'm pretty sure that it is. But again, you're tampering with election equipment, so it seems unlikely."

Odd, isn't it, how unconcerned our election officials who use these deeply flawed machines always seem to be? Laws broken? No big deal. Possibility of that these easily hackable machines were tampered with? Dismissed. As Brad points out, California has previously experienced problems with Diebold machines as have officials in Iowa, and Utah. Diebold officials themselves have admitted that their machines contain computer code which can be easily tampered with (i.e., "Self-modifying, dynamically loaded, or interpreted code" prohibited by Section 1, paragraph 4.2.2 of the FEC Voting System Standards of 2002).

Syndicated columnist, Bob Koehler, in his most recent column, essentially declares that he has no confidence in the results of the Busby/Bilbray election because of the election irregularities involving these Diebold machines:

People across the political spectrum have begun waking up to the immense risks posed by electronic voting. For instance, conservative CNN commentator Lou Dobbs recently weighed in that, “The security of our elections and the integrity of our democracy is in jeopardy. Nationwide, there is concern and even alarm that electronic voting machines are simply too easily compromised and vulnerable to fraud.”

And Diebold machines, which were decertified in California at one point, are probably the most controversial of all. Computer experts given even brief access to a Diebold machine have demonstrated how easily it can be hacked, with election-changing results. A highly detailed “security alert” about Diebold, issued in May by the nonpartisan Black Box Voting, warns:

“Based on publicly available documentation, source code experts and testing performed with the system, there seem to be several backdoors to the system which are unacceptable from a security point of view. . . .

While many people argue that the machines shouldn’t be used at all, California Secretary of State Bruce McPherson, who re-certified Diebold, at least acknowledges their security danger and has established strict “chain of custody” standards for each machine and memory card. No unauthorized person should ever be alone with them, and “Any breach of control over a memory card shall require that its contents be zeroed.”

Now then, fasten your seatbelts. In San Diego County, the voting registrar, Mikel Haas, apparently following time-honored custom (or whatever), sent machines and other equipment home with poll workers for as much as a week before the June 6 election, to be stored in living rooms, garages, etc., shattering all control over these insecure machines and opening up, in Harris’ words, “a huge gaping maw of an attack hole.” [...]

A spokesman at Haas’ office subsequently confirmed the “sleepover” (as Friedman put it). And another spokesman, at McPherson’s office, who took the better part of two days to return my calls, refused to answer a simple, point-blank question: Were chain-of-custody requirements violated in San Diego County? Instead, she e-mailed me a copy of the secretary of state’s certification process, which seemed to confirm that indeed they were. Further calls to McPherson’s office have not been returned.

I don’t know whether the secretary of state’s allegiance is to partisan politics or just a quick count. But like others who have looked on appalled at the procedural sloppiness of this election, I have no confidence in Bilbray’s 4,732-vote “victory” over Busby. Worse, I fear that democracy in the electronic era is in the hands of people who regard it as more trouble than it’s worth.

It should go without saying that Mr. McPherson, California's Secretary of State and the man who re-certified Diebold machines for use in California after their de-certification by his predecessor in office, is a Republican. Just like happened in Ohio in 2004 under its Republican Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, and in Florida in 2000 under its former Republican Secretary of State, Katherine Harris, I expect a lot of "interesting" election results from California this year.

In other words, I share Bob Koehler's sentiments when he says he fears our democracy is "in the hands of people who regard it as more trouble than it’s worth."

I suggest that those of us who continue to value that democracy make every effort this year to oppose and expose the actions of state and federal officials who can't be bothered with ensuring that every vote is counted. You can start by signing THIS PETITION demanding a hand recount of the Busby/Bilbray election results.

Update [2006-6-15 11:35:24 by Steven D]: Further steps to take (via boofah at Dkos):

Join VerifiedVoting.org

Join VotersUnite.org



Display:
Cross-posted at That ORANGE Blog.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt
by Steven D on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 10:24:58 AM EST
How are things going over at DailyKos for this diary?  Last time I checked an election fraud diary over there (on RFK Jr's Rolling Stone article), it seemed most people were pretty open-minded, not much bullying by the thought police, and a minimum of nuttery.  Hope it's going over well at the Big Orange.

Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?
by Man Without A Country on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:57:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not banned yet.

No. 1 on the recommended list at the moment.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

by Steven D on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 12:23:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We can thank Rolling Stone magazine and RFK Jr. for puncturing Kos' stonewall, then.

Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?
by Man Without A Country on Fri Jun 16th, 2006 at 11:57:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
n of MSNBC. I asked him why he stood against the tide. ''I was a sports reporter, so I was used to dealing with numbers,'' he said. ''And the numbers made no sense. Kerry had an insurmountable lead in the exit polls on Election Night -- and then everything flipped.'' Olbermann believes that his journalistic colleagues fell down on the job. ''I was stunned by the lack of interest by investigative reporters,'' he said. ''The Republicans shut down Warren County, allegedly for national security purposes -- and no one covered it. Shouldn't someone have sent a camera and a few reporters out there?''

Olbermann attributes the lack of coverage to self-censorship by journalists. ''You can rock the boat, but you can never say that the entire ocean is in trouble,'' he said. ''You cannot say: By the way, there's something wrong with our electoral system.''

by BooMan on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 10:45:42 AM EST
It's a version of the Big Lie, which I call the Big Problem.  The problem is so big nobody wants to tackle it because you WILL get burned for doing it.

Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?
by Man Without A Country on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:56:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Doesn't surprise me in the least. That is why I will only vote by mail now.

Frodo failed...Bush has got the ring.
by alohaleezy on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 10:46:41 AM EST
I started voting by absentee ballot after I voted on a Diebold machine once.  I asked the poll worker for a paper receipt and he said the machine didn't produce one.

I asked, "How do I know the machine counted my vote correctly?  There's no way to double-check!"

The poll worker (a very elderly and well-meaning gentleman) shrugged and said, "Computers don't make mistakes."

I guess he doesn't own a computer...especially not one that runs Windows XP!

Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?

by Man Without A Country on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:59:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What would I say?

I'd say you're banned from Daily Kos because all these "election fraud" conspiracy theories are verboten.  That's why Bev Harris is banned from Daily Kos and why Mark Crispin Miller and Robert Kennedy, Junior, qualify.

I'm not surprised that the mainstream media have suppressed talk of rigged elections; anybody with the guts to take on the Republicrats has been shuffled off into ignominious retirement (Dan Rather) or had their careers threatened in other ways.

What does surprise me is why the Democratic Party doesn't want to focus on this issue, and why the Big Orange Blog doesn't want to.  Can somebody please explain to me why the Big Orange and the Democratic Party are so hostile to discussing these issues?  I really don't understand it.

Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?

by Man Without A Country on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 10:48:22 AM EST
Building a blogging community that has actual pull, real juice, is a difficult task.  Little slip ups, like Markos's comments about the mercenaries in Falluja, can not only dry up the advertising that pays for the 14 servers he needs and his own bills, but they can marginalize the whole site.

The trick is to get the press to pay attention so that what you say will effect what they say, and the American people will get a better MSM product.  But you can easily find yourselves ganged up on by the MSM and relegated to Michael Mooreville if you allow the site to become conspitorial.

Then you'll find that a large segment of the community is under the misapprehension that political blogging sites are free speech zones or rules free debating societies.  They're not.  For example, Rush Limbaugh talking points are not allowed here.  Disrespect is strongly discouraged and can lead to banning.  This is not a totally free speech zone, and neither is the orange place, obviously.

When they decided that election fraud speculation was going to hurt the brand of the site I disagreed vocally, and set this site up.  I don't blame them for protecting the brand.  I blame them for thinking election fraud speculation would hurt them.  It was too important to care, frankly.  

by BooMan on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 10:58:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This makes no kind of sense to me at all. If we don't have a way to know for our votes are even going to count, why waste energy  trying to get people to vote progressive in the first place?
What am I missing here?

ONward!
by scribe (scribe40@comcast.net) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:12:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe that's it?  Don't discuss election fraud because it'll discourage people from donating money and volunteering their time, turning out to vote...if the votes aren't counted fairly, what's the point?

That sort of thinking--don't talk about election fraud!-- DOES make if your focus is short-term and you want to get people to donate money and time.  It does NOT make sense if you care about the survival of our democratic system and the long-term survival of the progressive movement.

Seems that corporate America is not the only entity that only cares about short-term gain.

Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?

by Man Without A Country on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:23:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So the decision not to discuss the issue of electoral fraud was a business or marketing decision?  Protecting the brand?  Attracting advertisers?

Wow, that's...scary.

This is IMPORTANT.  I agree that you have to keep the loony conspiracy types off your site or risk being ridiculed and marginalized, but the electoral fraud in Ohio, for example, was challenged by respectable people like John Edwards and Representative John Conyers...and Mark Crispin Miller...and many others!  And it IS important.

Well, the evidence has grown so weighty that I see that election fraud diaries are now allowed at Daily Kos, although of course they're not going to be frontpaged.  That's better than nothing, I guess, but it's very disappointing to see that business considerations outweighed civic responsibilities.

Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?

by Man Without A Country on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:21:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The troll rating system would keep out the loonies without the intervention of management. (or at least minimize them.)  

Oh, there you are, Perry. -Phineas -SLB-
by boran2 (blogistan@yahoo.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:37:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
you can look at it that way, but that is not the whole picture.  

A good example would be Fahrenheit 911.  About 98% of that movie was based on facts and Moore's documented those facts.  But the other two percent lost him credibility and he was quickly nuttified.

The two percent might have been true also, or maybe not, but it wasn't verifiable, it was speculation.

And that is where Daily Kos had to make a decision.  Will this speculation get us nuttified?   And that is valid, because getting nuttified destroys everything else you're trying to do, all the positive stuff.  

The problem was, that a stolen election is not the same as 9/11 or JFK conspiracy theories.  It's directly about the whole purpose of the site, which is to help democrats get elected.  That's where I had the disconnect.  It was the wrong issue to shout down.  

by BooMan on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:40:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So the decision not to discuss the issue of electoral fraud was a business or marketing decision? Protecting the brand? Attracting advertisers?

Huh. Bets that that was part of the whole "women's studies" blow-up too?



Kill because somebody was killed. Get killed because he killed. Do you think peace will ever come like that?
by Egarwaen on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 12:03:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well...I dunno, but it's possible.  If you don't want any "fringe poeple" around to give your place a bad name (in the eyes of more powerful  white males youreally  want to attract) you'd  almost have to get rid of the boot-stomping "feminazis" and  that distracting "womens studies crowd"  wouldn't you?  Otherwise you might "lose face".    

ONward!
by scribe (scribe40@comcast.net) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 12:37:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm thinking more specifically about advertisers. If you've got a bunch of inconveniently independent women kicking up a fuss every time an advertiser tries to use some good old tits-and-ass to sell something, you're going to have a hard time attracting advertisers. Especially since others are going to be wary of complaints about the subject matter of their ads.



Kill because somebody was killed. Get killed because he killed. Do you think peace will ever come like that?
by Egarwaen on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 01:21:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Building a blogging community that has actual pull, real juice, is a difficult task. ...

Was this always Markos' mission?  It seems that it has changed.  And if so, shouldn't the mission be this dispersal of information with activists and the discussion of same.  Why worry about having juice?  Make a useful site and the juice will come.  

Oh, there you are, Perry. -Phineas -SLB-

by boran2 (blogistan@yahoo.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:33:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think Markos realized early on that the size of the site was raising the attention of the media and the politicians, and that he had some influence.  And the site itself (the members) had influence.  It's their pageviews reading the advertising, its their letters and faxes that go out.

So, yeah, he is protecting his brand to protect the influence of himself and his community.  There is nothing wrong with that if it is done correctly.  On election fraud, I just flat disagreed with their analysis.  Thus, this green.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:44:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Orange is an ugly color, anyway.

Green's my favorite.

I don't care for 9/11 conspiracy theories, by the way.  In the end, they're interesting, but unprovable.

Election fraud has been proven to have occurred in Ohio and Florida, just to name two places.  And it is a nationwide problem that strikes at the very heart of our democracy.

Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?

by Man Without A Country on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:53:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I understand that this is the COVER STORY, but it's patently CRAP.

Redstate and Powerline are full of the most egregious and hateful stuff, yet the MSM treats their proprietors like pundits. It's a dodge. It's not about "protecting the brand".

The REAL reason that dailyKlark silences certain discussions is that kos is offering his services to the institutional leaders of the center-right wing of the Democratic Party: Schumer, Reid, Emmanuel, Clinton and Hoyer ... as well as Republican trojan horses like Webb, Clark and Casey. That blog has been carefully redirected into a ward-heeling machine to manufacture consent and drive discussions in the direction that the center-right wants the discussion to go. Only a small amount of dissent is allowed to maintain the illusion of being "liberal" so they can keep roping in liberals/progressives/leftists in order to push the party propaganda on them, and to pick their pockets.

It is to your credit that you set up BMT, and that you allow real progressive posters like Steven D to open up discussion here. I know that you say that I'm wrong, but I'm sure you get some pressure to mute things here. Thank you for keeping the forum open.

"Whenever a Voice of Moderation addresses liberals, its sole purpose is to stomp out any real sign of life." - James Wolcott

by Madman in the Marketplace on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 01:27:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A-men to that.
by wilfred on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 01:40:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have a somewhat inside view and my take on it is somewhat different.  There is no conspiracy going on, but a confluence of interests, loyalties, reciprocations, and the like.  It's too bad that people don't know more about the individual personalities of the big name bloggers, because it would quickly become clear that there are vast differences between all of them.  Even Jerome and Markos have very important differences on where they stand.  And they are the two most closely aligned.  So, I know this all feeds speculation and conspiracy theories, and I don't have all the answeres.  

But I think you'd do better and come closer to the truth by trying to put yourself in their shoes.  For example, I don't have to worry about whether my appearance on MTP will be sidetracked by Rovian attacks on the latest crazy diary on my recommended list.  I might feel differently about what I am comfortable seeing on this site if I had to worry about whether it detract from or obliterate my credibility.

Walk in their shoes for a while and some of this censorship might make a lot more sense and be much more banal than any agreement to push center-left ideas or stifle debate.

There's a dynamic at play here, and individual personalities.  It's not what you think it is, and where it will go is not all the predicatable.

What is predictable, is that you cannot make a leap from the outside to the inside and not alienate the people you can't take with you.  And, if you start bucking your constituents political views you are headed for a trainwreck.  

So, we'll see.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 01:47:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
confluence of interests, loyalties, reciprocations, and the like vs. conspiracy.

Look, having a behind the scene agenda isn't necessary a "conspiracy" in a Star Chamber sense. What I object to is their marketing of themselves as in any way progressive. They're not.

That site was built based on the lively conversation of the people who posted their thoughts and diaries. He has the page hits to sell to advertisers because of THAT, certainly not his writing. Much of that advertising is from center-right candidates, and the whole point of advertising is to "manufacture consent", in the form of donations or votes. Thread moderation is often brutal, frequently obscenity laced and many times misogynist or disrespectful, esp from a couple of the front pagers. Threads are also rife w/ party operatives. This is plain to anybody who looks at it over time.

I don't care that they are nice people. I don't know them. There is a vital political discussion that needs to happen in this country, and that site, along with others, could have been part of it. Instead, it was highjacked to serve the status quo. It's his "brand", and he can do what he wants with it. I'm sure that in his little former-Republican heart, he knows that what he's doing is right, but kos has NO right to present himself as some kind of spokesman for the left. He's not.

"Whenever a Voice of Moderation addresses liberals, its sole purpose is to stomp out any real sign of life." - James Wolcott

by Madman in the Marketplace on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 02:19:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I think you and Booman are both right.  Both of your theories can be true without conflicting.

Mr. Moulitsas IS protecting his "product brand" and making his site attractive to advertisers (Booman's theory).  To protect the "brand", you need a KNOWN QUANTITY that is "safe" (but the problem is, safety often = mediocrity, which is why DailyKos is so deadly dull to read...especially the frontpage!).

At the same time, Mr. Moulitsas IS pushing a center-right politics and is attempting to "manufacture consent".  He has been very successful in this regard, so much so that he and his top lieutenants now feel comfortable being openly scornful of labels that the rest of us proudly wear:  "liberal", "leftie", and "progressive" among them.

Both theories of why DailyKos is the way it is are valid, I think.  

Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?

by Man Without A Country on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 01:48:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I want to make absolutely clear that I am not suggesting that they are acting to protect their advertising.  That is a part of it.  The much much bigger part of it is to protect their own credibility and the credibility of the site and members.  It is the desire to have influence that trumps the money.  None of us are doing this for the money, even though all of us would like more of it.
by BooMan on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 01:53:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, didn't Kos sort of undermine his own credibility with that big "jihad" he was going to launch against the DLC last year--which then evaporated without explanation?  And now Kos is getting all cuddly with Warner, who is the Golden Boy of the DLC.  And the "screw them" remark about the mercenaries who were horribly killed in Iraq didn't help too much, either.

Benjamin Wallace-Wells wrote a pretty good article about that in The Washington Monthly:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0601.wallace-wells.html

His most curious crusade of all was the one he began in late August of 2005, when he declared on his site that he had a secret plan to destroy the Democratic Leadership Council. A few years ago, when the organization of Democratic centrists was backing the invasion of Iraq and flirting with Social-Security privatization, this might have made sense. But by last year, the DLC had begun loudly denouncing Bush, particularly for his handling of Iraq, and was generally in agreement with Moulitsas and the party's activist base on a broad range of issues. Moulitsas, for his part, had spent the previous few months focused on taking on the liberal interest groups, urging Democrats to run more pro-life candidates, and to contest rural contests with rural values--all long-held tenets of the DLC. So Moulitsas's beef with the group wasn't over ideology, it was, predictably, over tactics. But even here, the ire seemed misplaced: The DLC is hardly averse to a strategy that puts winning ahead of ideological purity--it helped make its reputation in the early '90s by advising Bill Clinton to adopt just that kind of pragmatism, arguing that electoral victory was more important than philosophical correctness.

Still, Moulitsas wouldn't back down. "No calls for a truce will be brooked," he wrote. "Appeals to party unity will fall on deaf ear... We need to make the DLC radioactive. And we will. With everyone's help, we really can. Stay tuned." As the countdown continued, Moulitsas posted millennial-sounding attacks on the DLC that veered, like the writings of the Ayatollahs, between the merely portentous and the outright ludicrous. Some liberal websites, ecstatic, began speculating about what Moulitsas's plan might be; others posted count-down clocks. And then...nothing. Three days before the scheduled unveiling, Moulitsas wrote that he'd changed his mind.

And didn't the "pie wars" lose Kos any credibility?  It's strange that things that seem normal to me are deemed "incredible" at the Big Orange and things that are just jaw-dropping, like Kos' rants against NARAL and against people who complained about that stupid Gilligan's Island pie fight ad, etcetera, don't seem to hurt his "credibility" at all.  I guess I just don't think about these sort of issues enough to really understand them.

Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?

by Man Without A Country on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 02:06:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Almost forgot--I know you didn't want this diary to turn into YET ANOTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT DAILY KOS, so I'm going to drop it now.

Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?
by Man Without A Country on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 02:08:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I, for one, am glad you set this site up.  I'm probably a typical participant in sites like Booman and DKos.  I have a blog which no one reads, I write a few diaries and make comments because I see blogs like yours as a real way to participate in the dialgue about where our country is header.  I have a job which doesn't allow me to spend more than 3 or 4 hours a week reading and writing on Booman.  

I've quit participating in DKos for the very reasons you stated.  Election theft isn't a conspiracy theory; it's a fact.  Disenfranchising thousands of voters through "scrubbing" or the use of utterly hackable electronic machines with no paper records are facts.  We need election monitors in our country to keep the fascists from stealing them again in 2006 and 2008.

As far as I'm concerned, election fraud disbelievers fall into the category criticized by (I think) Bonhoeffer during the Nazi power grab in Germany and the terrible consequences when he said something to this effect.  

When they came for the homosexuals, I didn't say anything because I wasn't a homosexual.
When they came for the gypsies, I didn't say anything because I wasn't a gypsy.
When they came for the communists, I didn't say anything because I wasn't a communist.
When they came for the Jews I didn't say anything because I was a Jew.
When they came for me, nobody said anything because nobody but Nazis were left.

I don't know if I have the quote or the attribution right, (somebody help!) but the notion is exactly apropos to where we stand in America now.  

If we don't demand a vote that is recordable and verifiable our elections will never be honest.

All Progressives need to become ardent supporters of the Second, as well as the , First Amendment

by phronesis (swwiener@gmail.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:57:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The attribution is Pastor Martin Niemoller.

Martin Niemöller (January 14, 1892 - March 6, 1984) was a German Lutheran pastor. Since the 1980s, he has been best known as the author of the poem First they came for the Communists. He is also known as an anti-Semite,[1] a German nationalist, and a supporter of Adolf Hitler, and later as the founder of the Confessing Church, which opposed the nazification of German Protestant churches. For his opposition to the Nazi's state control of the churches, Niemöller was imprisoned in Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps from 1937 to 1945.

It is a lovely poem, but Niemoller was a virulent anti-Semite whose opposition to Hitler arose because the Nazis began attacking the Christian churches.  Niemoller's anti-Semitism has been downplayed for obvious reasons.

On 5th June 1945 Niemöller gave a press conference in Naples. He admitted that he had offered to join the German Navy in 1939. He also confessed that he had "never quarrelled with Hitler over political matters, but purely on religious grounds". This resulted in a savage attack on Niemöller from those newspapers that had presented him as a symbol of resistance to Hitler's government. It was now pointed out that Niemöller had never opposed the Nazi racial theories, but merely the suppression of the Church in Germany.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERniemoller.htm

Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?

by Man Without A Country on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 12:04:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
so maybe he was just stating the facts when he said this.  thanks.

All Progressives need to become ardent supporters of the Second, as well as the , First Amendment
by phronesis (swwiener@gmail.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 05:08:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If the twin towers had been struck by lightning & collapsed, & someone came up with the theory that it was actually a bunch of "A rabs" with boxcutters, they`d be banned as ct`s. I read the article on BRAD`S BLOG
3 or 4 days ago,  & was stunned to read about poll workers keeping these machines in their garages. I considered posting a link here but figured
someone would say "What a Knucklehead!!". [That would be true]
 Myself, I never ever gave a crap about what people said about me so that`s not  the reason I didn`t write a diary about it. It`s that [now
you`ll all know] I`m not very well versed in the protocol of doing so, nor am I that computer literate.
I would imagine though, that some people would keep quiet about something for fear of being banned from  certain sites, which definitely
diminishes the reach & power of any site.
Not speaking up for perceived voter "irregularities" on a progressive site touting the vote, for the syndrome called "Fear Of Banning", reduces the site to an oxymoron.


The difference between theists and atheists is that the atheists don't set the theists on fire for refusing to agree with them.
by KNUCKLEHEAD on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:43:26 AM EST
Last year Haas dismissed security issues.
Registrar employees aren't the only ones with access to voting machines and memory cards. During San Diego's recent mayoral special election, 713 voting machines containing memory cards were sent home overnight with poll workers, Harris [of Black Box Voting, a non-partisan consumer protection group]noted. ..."Most counties don't send machines home with poll workers," Harris observed. "It's bizarre. You should have them under lock and key."

San Diego County Registrar of Voters Mikel Haas maintains that San Diego voters need not worry. "It is as secure as we can make it," he said of the election equipment and safeguards used locally.

Three weeks before the June 6 primary, only two-thirds of the 6,000 poll-workers needed for the 1,646 polls in San Diego had been lined up.  Haas was appealing for 2,000 more.

Would properly trained poll-workers even agree to keeping the machines in their homes?

by latanawi on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:44:09 AM EST
You might as well ask if a bank would allow employees to take bundles of cash home and store them in their garage if the vault was full.

Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?
by Man Without A Country on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:54:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you told me that I would say:

"vote only by mail! Vote only by Mail"

--an unpaid political announcement

by donkeytale on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 10:29:53 AM EST
Click and improve the ranking of this Flash presentation that I did earlier today about this subject...

(click the stop sign)



Thank You for not Impeaching the War Criminals and Terrorist Enablers.

by STOP George on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 01:22:47 PM EST
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by awv5600 on Tue Jul 4th, 2006 at 08:23:41 AM EST


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Find textbooks at Alibris!

NOTE: Overstock bests Amazon's prices and is "blue."

THE BOOKS WITH "BUZZ":
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Senator Edward M. Kennedy tells his extraordinary personal story:

True Compass: A Memoir
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Physics for Future Presidents: The Science behind the Headlines
Richard A. Muller

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"Explosive" State of War: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration
by James Risen


The book the CIA doesn't want you to read: Jawbreaker: The Attack on Bin Laden and Al Qaeda: A Personal Account by the CIA's Key Field Commander
Larry Johnson's review


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PERMACULTURE:
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Alibris - Books You Thought You'd Never Find
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