Booman Tribune

Why We Don't Have Her Back

by BooMan
Tue Nov 13th, 2007 at 12:36:49 PM EST

For a Democratic presidential campaign to go into the general election without the Netroots is to fight with one hand behind your back. Yet, that is what the Clinton campaign intends to do. Their contempt for the progressive blogosphere is manifest and comes in comments from people as diverse as Al From and Paul Begala.

"They (bloggers) don't really speak for the Democratic Party," From said Thursday during a 45-minute chat in Las Vegas. He cited poll results that show Clinton with 51 percent of the vote against Rudy Giuliani (Pew Research) although she received only 9 percent on the liberal Web site [sic] Yearly Kos...

..."Look," [Begala] said, "When we started there were only about 15 competitive races, but Rahm made the field over 35 by the end and that had nothing to do with the 50-state strategy."

..."Anyway," Begala continued... "I don’t need some a**hole from Vermont telling me what to do."

Hillary Clinton may be a little more open-minded than the people that surround her, but that may not matter. In 2000, Al Gore decided that he wanted to talk about global warming and he gave a big speech. Joe Klein described what happened next in his book Politics Lost: How American Democracy Was Trivialized by People Who Think You're Stupid:

He delivered the speech on June 27, in Philadelphia.
And nothing happened. The New York Times got the story right, citing Gore's "broad vision" in the lead, but buried on page 24. The Washington Post played it inside as well and, worse, empahsized that this was Gore's attempt to deal with high gasoline prices. The television networks also played the gas-price angle. The speech caused barely a ripple. "What the fuck happened?" the vice president asked his staff the next day, livid. "What went wrong?"
No one was sure...but, in the end, Gore came to believe that it was an act of passive resistance on the part of his consultants. They wanted a different campaign from the one he wanted.

Which is instructive. The candidates are not completely autonomous agents. You don't elect a president, you elect a gang. And the Hillary gang is hostile to the activist base of the party. Maybe that is why they are planting questions in audiences all over the country. Leave it to the Grinnell college newspaper to break the story (which has since been picked up by CNN).

Gallo-Chasanoff, an undecided voter, said what happened was really pretty simple: she says a senior Clinton staffer asked if she'd like to ask the senator a question after an energy speech she gave in Newton, Iowa, on November 6.

"I sort of thought about it, and I said 'Yeah, can I ask how her energy plan compares to the other candidates' energy plans?'" Gallo-Chasanoff said.

"'I don't think that's a good idea," the staffer said, according to Gallo-Chasanoff, "because I don't know how familiar she is with their plans."

He then opened a binder to a page that, according to Gallo-Chasanoff, had about eight questions on it.

"The top one was planned specifically for a college student," she added. " It said 'college student' in brackets and then the question."

And, it was not the first time.

Geoffrey Mitchell told NBC/NJ in a telephone interview that a Clinton campaign staffer approached him at an event in Fort Madison, Iowa, to suggest he ask a question about the senator standing up to President Bush on Iraq war funding at an event.

Mitchell, a 32-year-old minister, said he was not and had never been a Clinton supporter and stressed that he had moved to Illinois since the April 2nd event and, so, could not participate in the caucuses. He said being asked to ask a certain question was not the way things were supposed to go...

...The Clinton campaign's Mo Elleithee said earlier in the day that Mitchell and the staffer, Chris Hayler, were acquaintances.

"They knew each other and bumped into each other at the event," Elleithee had said. "During the course of their conversation, the topic of Iraq came up. Our staffer suggested he ask a question. That's all."

Mitchell disputes Elleithee’s account. "That is incorrect," Mitchell said. "I did not know him. I met him that day."

You think the Netroots is going to go to war for you when you do this shit? After you basically called us all 'assholes from Vermont'? No way.

But, if we bring up what a dishonest, loathsome campaign the Clintons are running, all of a sudden we are Hillary haters. That's backwards. Hillary hates us. And she treats us with the same contempt that she treats those audiences to in Iowa. Even the press gets into the action. Look at Craig Crawford:

Here’s a question not even worth asking John Edwards right now because he would not really answer it: Do you dislike Hillary Rodham Clinton enough to ultimately abandon your own race and endorse Barack Obama if it comes to that ?...

...There is no such warmth when Edwards speaks of Clinton — so much so that it is not unthinkable that a loss in Iowa, where the 2004 vice presidential nominee has put the bulk of his effort, might prompt him to endorse Obama well before the Feb. 5 multi-state primaries when Clinton hopes to clinch the nomination.

Then we would finally find out just how much Edwards dislikes her.

Couldn't be that Edwards is attacking Clinton because she voted for Kyl-Lieberman, and she is planting questions at townhall meetings. Couldn't be that he is actually trying to win the nomination. No, his criticisms are strictly about his personal dislike for Hillary Clinton. Total bullshit.

I don't hate Hillary Clinton. She hates us. Or, at least, her consultants do. And her consultants are running the (Potemkin Village) of a show.



Display:
So what else is new? Look Boo- Health and Ed Bill vetoed. Defense bill signed. Naral backs asshole."Rahm" gets us to a 35 state plan.(I thought it was Dean and his 50 state approach!)And pelosi and reid take Impeachment OFF the table.So??????????
 Who do we support?
by billjpa (billjpa@aol.com) on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 at 01:11:57 PM EST
Why don't you tell me?
by BooMan on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 at 01:14:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't really appreciate Paul Begala's comments, especially considering it was "the asshole from vermont" who made winning in 2006 even possible.

Furthermore, this Asshole From Rhode Island isn't about to reward crap like that with support of any kind.

Brendan Calling John Mccain

by brendan on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 at 01:30:46 PM EST
Simplistic truism I believe in: Netroots & mainstream progressives share the same values, the only real difference is that Netroots are chuck full of more information on the specifics of issues because they are constantly 'reading up'. For me, this explains why polling when viewed backwards shows the netroots are simply 6 months ahead of the curve, but never on a separate tangent. And I'm beginning to think Michelle Obama may have hit an even larger nail on the head when she argued that black voters will remember their strength and turn back from the 'declared' winner of Hillary and return to Barack. A lesson there for the netroots perhaps.

No Hillary, you were outspent by the people not the Obama campaign.
by mainsailset (rideback@gmail.com) on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 at 01:51:06 PM EST
in a reality based world, it would seem to be CW, that to take this stance towards the netroots would be to ignore the obvious.

for lack of a better analogy, ignoring 'the canary in the coal mine'. many contributors to the netroots medium are very actively involved at the grass roots level of politics, and their positions, in many respects, represent those of a far greater percentage of the public than is apparent.

for example, the democratic storm that swept through congress in the last election, was, in large part, predictable by looking at the issues and actions being championed in the netroots. it wasn't just the 1/10th of 1% of the population that comprises the netroots that went to the ballot box...not to mention the financial contributions that were a direct result of our efforts.

the fact that they, the demoRATs in general, have now chosen to marginalize that influence and source of funding, support, and information, and are trending farther to the false expectations and hollow rhetoric of the lite-right agenda, is merely another indication at how out of touch they are with the mood outside the beltway.

media driven, propaganda campaigns filled with trite sound-byte platitudes, and push-pull polls are only going to get them so far. my brief exposure to polling and statistics convinced me that mark twain, or benjamin disraeli, for the argumentative among us, nailed it when he said: "there are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."

they pursue this line of action at their own peril, imo.  the majority of the people that will actually make the decision are never heard from, consulted, or polled, for that matter.

this is the reason the primaries are so damned important, especially the presidential.

lTMF'sA



lTMF'sA...the revolution will not be televised...Peace

by dada on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 at 02:14:16 PM EST
He cited poll results that show Clinton with 51 percent of the vote against Rudy Giuliani (Pew Research) although she received only 9 percent on the liberal Web site [sic] Yearly Kos

is al from really that clueless? if the 9% figure comes from the poll i am thinking of, it was a poll asking respondents to list who they were supporting in the primary race. in other words, the kos poll was measuring support for clinton in the primary whereas the 51% poll from cites is a head to head poll of clinton vs. giuliani.

it's an apples-to-oranges comparison, and that's even putting aside the fact that a non-scientific "poll" on kos is not the same as a real poll with real sampling.

is there any serious doubt that if given a choice between clinton and giuliani kossacks would vote overwhelmingly for clinton? i expect her support would go way beyond 51% and i also expect that if HRC gets the nomination kos will support her candidacy, just like he supported kerry after his man dean lost in the primary.

if this is al "arguing for his relevancy" he's making a pretty bad job of it.

by upyernoz (upyernoz [at] yahoo [dot] com) on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 at 02:29:38 PM EST
Anytime you have to ask if Al From is "really that clueless" you should just stop asking.  The answer is yes.

I couldn't tell if he was talking about a straw poll at Yearly Kos or if it was a particular poll at DailyKos anyway.  And, yes, if Clinton gets the nomination I fully expect kos to be a reluctant but loud supporter of her run.  And I suspect that a majority of commenters over there will also.  That's what you get on a PARTISAN website like DailyKos.  From's a tool - Democrats, especially partisan Democrats, have ALWAYS disagreed, sometimes REALLY loudly, during primary seasons - it's one of the things that separates them from the Republicans.  Now they have blogs, before they just had bar fights.

by nonynony on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 at 07:43:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The thing that bothers me most about Clinton, aside from her conservatism, is that she's a senator. With a couple of exceptions, legislators have never won presidential elections unless they also previously held office as a governor or vice president. Legislators are by their very nature virtually unelectable for executive branch posts.

This gets back to what Booman has been saying about the appearance of strength. Legislators are essentially negotiators, and any time you run one, the opposition can easily depict them as waffling flip-floppers. That's their job as legislators, after all.

Since all of the Dem candidates this time are current or former members of Congress, the fact that it looks like one of them might actually win says vastly more about the depths to which the GOP has sunk than it does about any positive quality of our candidates. If Clinton or Obama or Edwards could win against the GOP candidate, then so could a baked potato. And just because we can run any barely conscious senator and win this time doesn't make it any less dangerous of a strategy. There is still time for a moderate, self-funded candidate like Bloomberg to walk all over our lackluster lineup.

---Cthulhu for President: Why vote for the lesser evil?

by eodell (eodell at naqada dot org) on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 at 03:44:35 PM EST
Running against the incumbent vice-President.
by The Voice In The Wilderness on Wed Nov 14th, 2007 at 07:57:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hillary Clinton is running a general election campaign.  The other democratic candidates are not.  They each have their own strategies for getting to be the Democratic nominee. She knows that she would be crucified for every statement made after the primaries that didn't match her exact statements before the primaries, so she is naturally to the right of the other democratic contenders.  It will help her in the general if her minions dismiss the "far-left wing" of the party now.  Try not to take this so personally.  

She's not my favorite candidate, but I sure will vote for her come November. My husband was one of those that said there isn't a dimes worth of difference between the parties and voted for Nader -- and he has regretted that decision every one of the past 2581 days.

Hillary is more progressive than Bill ever was and she will make a far superior president to Guliani or any of the other Republican candidates.

by wasabi cat on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 at 04:10:49 PM EST
Hillary is more progressive than Bill ever was ...

Can you throw me some examples?  I don't doubt this (I've often said that Bill Clinton was the best Republican president since Eisenhower), but my reading of her record is that she's about as progressive as Bill Clinton.  Both on foreign and domestic economic policy - and she seems about the same on the social issues.

and she will make a far superior president to Guliani or any of the other Republican candidates.

Well, yeah.  But that's damning with faint praise.  A trained monkey would make a better president than any of the current crop of Republicans.

by nonynony on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 at 07:48:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't do a better synopsis than this -- sorry.
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011131.php
by wasabi cat on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 at 11:24:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks!  I'll read that over tonight.
by nonynony on Wed Nov 14th, 2007 at 08:50:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
i have two words for you... peter daou... peter went to work for hrc at the end of june last year, ostensibly to work the internet and blogosphere for her campaign... either peter has fallen under the spell of mark penn, or mark penn has simply cut peter out of the action... my guess would be the latter... also keep in mind, the hillary campaign is really the burson-marsteller campaign... i haven't researched it, but i suspect there's a high degree of correlation between burson's client list and hrc's donor list...

visit my blog - http://www.takeitpersonally.blogspot.com/
by profmarcus (profmarcus@lycos.com) on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 at 07:07:21 PM EST
Eriposte over at The Left Coaster has been running a series on Clinton where each myth/or not is taken to task. It's fascinating reading and appropriately weedy. And yes, Clinton is coming up progressive.

No Hillary, you were outspent by the people not the Obama campaign.
by mainsailset (rideback@gmail.com) on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 at 08:59:22 PM EST


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