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Peace and Militarism at Church--Updated

by Arminius
Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 12:37:48 PM EST

In MilitaryTracy's last diary two days ago, there was this exchange:
LINK
I had mentioned being upset by a prayer in church for the troops that was not combined with any prayer for civilians in Iraq nor for world peace. Someone demanded to know why I had not stood up and protested in church. Well, you just don't do that in a large Catholic church, for many reasons, as several people pointed out. But I promised that I was going to write to the pastor. Here is the letter I have just sent:

Dear Father x. and Father x.:
My wife x and I have been members of St. x for almost two years. We were honored as "benefactors" by the Cardinal. x teaches catechism at St. x.
I want to object to a prayer that is commonly said at Mass, and which was said in particular at the beautiful Sunday 6 p.m. Mass two days ago with Father x. During common prayers, a prayer was said for the safety of U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, with no related prayers.
I don't mind a prayer for the safety of U.S. troops. But frankly, I think it is obscene, un-Christian, idolatrous, sacreligious, and grossly militaristic to constantly say that prayer without EVER combining it with a prayer for the safety of the millions of people whose lives have been disrupted or destroyed by the U.S. invasions of those countries. And it is equally unbalanced to constantly say that prayer without a call for world peace.
It is a tragedy that approximately 3,000 American soldiers have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. But all human beings are equally children of God. That should especially be understood by the universal, Catholic church. It is also true that many tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians have been killed by U.S. action in Iraq--credible scientific information puts that number in the HUNDREDS of thousands. I think it is shameful that in two years I have never seen a SINGLE sign of concern for that slaughter at St. x. Jesus was not a Republican.
I would respectfully request your thoughts on this, and I hope you will please pass this message along to whomever it is that composes the common prayers for Mass.

UPDATE: I did get a response, in less than 24 hours. I'll put it in a comment.

Peace and Militarism at Church--Updated | 27 comments (27 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Where's your tip jar? (4.00 / 5)

Please let us know what kind of response you get.

"Money ruined Democracy. Washington is lost. We only have the grassroots left." - Bill Moyers

by Knoxville Progressive (green_planet_2000 (at) yahoo (dot) com) on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 12:56:51 PM EST

Re: Where's your tip jar? (4.00 / 14)

Will do!

by Arminius on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 01:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where's your tip jar? (none / 0)

Arminius, I edited your url link to the comment to shorten it. I hope you don't mind, but it was messing up my screen when the entire url was posted.

That was the only change I made with my super admin powers btw. Which frankly aren't all that super, but I can pretend, can't I?

Steven D

Obama is a Patriot

by Steven D on Wed Feb 7th, 2007 at 07:52:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where's your tip jar? (none / 1)

Thanks. I used to know how to do that and have forgotten; need to look again.

by Arminius on Wed Feb 7th, 2007 at 11:33:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where's your tip jar? (none / 1)

Use this html code

<a href="url link here">LINK (or whatever you want to put here</a>

Obama is a Patriot

by Steven D on Wed Feb 7th, 2007 at 05:14:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (4.00 / 5)

Good on you. Please keep us posted.

Do you have your BT bumper sticker yet?

by chinook on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 01:09:50 PM EST

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (4.00 / 6)

You're a brave man. And it's a shame that I write that. Perhaps it different in Catholic churches, but it just seems like there are a lot of churches (mostly Protestant) where praising God and praising this country and this administration is one and the same.

I have my issues with church, but there are just some things that chafe my backside. Jesus is bigger than any country or state, including this one...and on some days, ESPECIALLY this one. Anything else, and you ought to stop calling yourself a Christian. I especially hate the flag crosses--I think they are a sacrilege.

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 02:20:03 PM EST

The Evolving Majority Protestants (none / 1)

Which are generally fundamentalist.

Open your eyes carefully here, I'm saying it's not clear how organic this movement is, vs. to what extent the empire is faciltating it.

40 years a wedding musician; when I visit a fundy Proddy church, I see a breadth of organization I've never seen on a military base.

And I visit military bases.

We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King, "Beyond Vietnam"

by Gooserock on Wed Feb 7th, 2007 at 03:55:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (4.00 / 5)

My break with the Catholic Church came during the Viet Nam war.

The chaplain at Northwestern was perfectly fine about telling me not to use birth control, but refused to say a word about the war. When I asked him about it, he said the Church didn't mettle in political matters.
Oh, really.

Thanks for writing the letter and thanks for letting us know.

I know a lot of priests oppose the war -- I've been seeing them at peace rallies for the last 4 years years. Maybe it is only in Church they can't pray for all humanity.

If you want things to get better, be prepared to deal with change.

by Kahli on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 02:27:05 PM EST

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (4.00 / 3)

When I asked him about it, he said the Church didn't mettle in political matters.

Oh, that is SO funny. And I'm sure he said it with a straight face, without any regard to how ludicrous it sounded.

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 02:39:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (4.00 / 6)

As a good ex-Catholic, my bumper sticker says:

God Bless the Whole World - No Exceptions!

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 02:31:30 PM EST

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (none / 1)

AMEN!

by Arminius on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 02:40:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (4.00 / 4)

Thank you for following through on your personal feelings in regard to not joining in the Sunday prayer. I sometimes wonder why some members of the flock should not replace the sheep [at times] who lead it. You, sir are a leader, & not a sheep, while still a member of the flock.

The difference between theists and atheists is that the atheists don't set the theists on fire for refusing to agree with them.

by KNUCKLEHEAD on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 03:43:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (4.00 / 4)

My father, so Catholic he was almost a priest, stood during a mass about a year ago and said "No!" to the priest in front of the whole congregation and walked out. If memory serves, the sermon was something along the lines of, right or wrong we need to support our President.

The Catholic Church preaches the importance of individual conscience. He really followed his.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 05:24:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (4.00 / 2)

That's a great story. I like to think I'd do the same thing if presented with the same provocation.

Was there more to the story? What kind of reactions did he get? Did he go back? Did he ever talk to the priest about it?

by Arminius on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 05:42:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (4.00 / 3)

That is strange. My father spent many years in the seminary after a Classic education. Just before being ordained, I think he was a novice, he was refused into the priesthood for having hearing problems. After spending more than seven years under Jesuit teaching he was then sent out into this world, very ill prepared for what he had to face. To marry my mother, she had to renounce her religious belief, I believe she was a Unitarian or Baptiste, & convert to catholicism. Talk about some mixed up ideas I had. I spent years as an alterboy but was dissillusioned by it all when the priest I used to serve mass for, used to yell at me to bring a couple of more wine cruets during the ceremony. He`d burp & to me showed disrespect to Jesus. This after my father was refused entry into the priesthood because if he couldn`t hear the alterboy`s "et cum spiri tutu um" the mass would not be valid. hah! I was told finally to be quiet when asking pointed questions during a parish visit once [where the priests go door to door once a year to every one in town`s home. That sort of soured me on the whole idea, that followers should be mute.

The difference between theists and atheists is that the atheists don't set the theists on fire for refusing to agree with them.

by KNUCKLEHEAD on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 07:15:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (4.00 / 3)

Hi Lisa!

I find it strange that the priest would ask the parishioners to support the President when he ignored the pleas of John Paul II and led this country to war against Iraq .

Thinking back to my catechism classes, wasn't it "obey your father and mother in all that is not sinful"? I guess that doesn't apply to George W. Bush.

Good for your father.

by venice ca on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 07:18:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (4.00 / 2)

the problem with institutionalizing anything spiritual is that the spiritual will ALWAYS eventually succumb to the demands of the status quo within an institution.

"Whenever a Voice of Moderation addresses liberals, its sole purpose is to stomp out any real sign of life." - James Wolcott

by Madman in the Marketplace on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 03:54:33 PM EST

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (none / 1)

I agree with that, so long as one changes "eventually succumb" to something like "be at risk of being destroyed." There is always this tension. The spirit is constantly being destroyed and obscured. But it tends to spring back up.

*******

Gerard Manley Hopkins (1844-89). Poems. 1918.

7. God's Grandeur

THE WORLD is charged with the grandeur of God.
It will flame out, like shining from shook foil;
It gathers to a greatness, like the ooze of oil
Crushed. Why do men then now not reck his rod?
Generations have trod, have trod, have trod;
And all is seared with trade; bleared, smeared with toil;
And wears man's smudge and shares man's smell: the soil
Is bare now, nor can foot feel, being shod.

And for all this, nature is never spent;
There lives the dearest freshness deep down things;
And though the last lights off the black West went
Oh, morning, at the brown brink eastward, springs--
Because the Holy Ghost over the bent
World broods with warm breast and with ah! bright wings.

by Arminius on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 04:09:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (none / 0)

whether crushed or forced into submission, staying within the institution, any institution, is dangerous to an open and creative spirit.

One voice I admire said:

Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." "Thou shalt" lies in his way, sparkling like gold, an animal covered with scales; and on every scale shines a golden "thou shalt." Values, thousands of years old, shine on these scales; and thus speaks the mightiest of all the dragons: "All value of all things shines on me. All value has long been created, and I am all created value. Verily, there shall be no more 'I will.'" Thus speaks the dragon. - Nietzsche, Part I, Chapter 1, On the Three Metamorphoses

The truly free spirit slays the dragon.

"Whenever a Voice of Moderation addresses liberals, its sole purpose is to stomp out any real sign of life." - James Wolcott

by Madman in the Marketplace on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 06:34:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I wrote the same sort of letter (4.00 / 4)

Our Epiphany sermon was disrupted by a vehement denunciation of Kerry and prayers that Roe v. Wade would be overturned. Yet that week we prayed for troops and not civilians. It was discovered that another innocent person had been executed through capital punishment in error. We didn't pray that capital punishment would be eliminated. The latter two are functions of government, of course. Abortion is a personal decision and government should have no say in it.

I wrote a letter. I didn't get a response. So when I got letter asking for money for the archdiocese asking for more money, I threw it away.

Michaela

by michaelmt (MrMichael_t@yahoo.com) on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 04:21:24 PM EST

Re: I wrote the same sort of letter (4.00 / 2)

I hate to be cynical, but the church is always so concerned with the "building fund" and other expenses that it often does seem that the people with the cash get the most attention. My wife thought it was unseemly bragging, but I mentioned in my letter that the Cardinal (the Archbishop of Baltimore) had honored us as "benefactors" because that means we gave Big Bucks to the Cardina's appeal (which goes entirely to charities). I'm hoping that will help inspire a response, although of course I think it's crappy that things are like that.

It's been four hours and no response yet. I do understand that most people don't check email every 30 seconds the way I do. But I'd better get a response!

My wife also thought the "Jesus was not a Republican" line was over-the-top, but I kind of like it.

by Arminius on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 04:26:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Watch the bookkeeping (4.00 / 2)

In theory, the bishops are not to use any church funds on any sort of political activism, including those highly expensive flyers we get urging us to go out and vote against gay marriage and stem cell research. In fact, money is shifted from one pot to another to create the illusion of protected funds, and donations from the wealthy are diverted from parish and charity use to political action.

Michaela

by michaelmt (MrMichael_t@yahoo.com) on Tue Feb 6th, 2007 at 06:11:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wrote the same sort of letter (none / 0)

And here I thought that the nicely dressed people, up front in the box-seats were just more "religious" than me. That was long ago though.

The difference between theists and atheists is that the atheists don't set the theists on fire for refusing to agree with them.

by KNUCKLEHEAD on Wed Feb 7th, 2007 at 11:58:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Response Received (4.00 / 3)

Less than 24 hours after my email, I got the following response from the pastor:

Dear Mr. x
cc Fr. x

Thanks for your insights and suggestion. Fr.x and I have discussed your memo. We will make sure that the balance is heard more often. Prayers for peace and recognition of civilians have been highlighted in prayers at mass or in the bulletin even to the point as you mentioned stating the numbers killed in order to emphasize the injustice against the innocent.

As you mention maybe the balance is not there enough to highlight the civilians and the injustices. We will make sure that it is cared for more often. If you wish to follow up with us regarding this, please do so. Either one or both of us are open to that.

Sincerely,
Fr. x

******
And I replied as follows:

Dear Fr. x:

Thank you. This is entirely satisfactory, and I'm very pleased to hear it.

I had not noticed a mention of civilian deaths at the Sunday 6 p.m. Mass, nor in the bulletin (which I don't always read, alas), and I'm very glad to hear that this has been done already at some times.

Thank you also for not taking offense at the sharp tone of my letter, which in retrospect I wish I had softened before sending.

Sincerely,
x

*********
I was already having fantasies of elevating this to a letter to the editor of the local newspapers, etc. I'm pleased to see this good response, which is almost exactly what my wife had predicted.

A small step in the direction of truth.

by Arminius on Wed Feb 7th, 2007 at 02:51:07 PM EST

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (none / 1)

Good of you to make the effort to eliminate the double standards in our society Arminius.

"Have you no sense of decency, sir. At long last, have you left no sense of decency?" -- Boston Attorney Joseph Welch, taking down Sen. Joseph McCarthy.

by BostonJoe on Wed Feb 7th, 2007 at 11:14:34 AM EST

Re: Peace and Militarism at Church (none / 1)

Mr. Jo, I spent a few hrs. last night, reading some of your writing & now will be seeking out, more of it. Trying to eliminate double standards, is something I read into your writing also, along with Mr. Arminius`.
Thank you both.

The difference between theists and atheists is that the atheists don't set the theists on fire for refusing to agree with them.

by KNUCKLEHEAD on Wed Feb 7th, 2007 at 12:06:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Peace and Militarism at Church--Updated | 27 comments (27 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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