Booman Tribune

Why the lack of concern for Kathy Sierra ?

by Steven D
Fri Apr 13th, 2007 at 10:41:19 PM EST

A lot of people think that the entire brouhaha about the death and rape threats Kathy Sierra received have been vastly overblown. In fact, the proprietor of Daily Kos, the dominant liberal blog in terms of traffic, had this to say recently about her "situation":
Look, if you blog, and blog about controversial shit, you'll get idiotic emails. Most of the time, said "death threats" don't even exist -- evidenced by the fact that the crying bloggers and journalists always fail to produce said "death threats". [...]

But so what? It's not as if those cowards will actually act on their threats. For better or for worse, this isn't a country in which media figures -- even hugely controversial ones -- are routinely attacked by anything more dangerous than a cream pie.

As I've written elsewhere, I think that was a terribly inappropriate response to make. But it's also got me thinking: why do so many people defend what Kos wrote?

(cont.)

My theory? I think it comes from a fundamental lack of understanding about what women experience everyday in our society. In particular, the level of sexual harassment, misogyny, verbal abuse, and threats of physical violence, especially sexualized violence in the form of rape. Others have quoted statistics up the wazoo about the vast gulf between the online threats and abuse women receive versus what men experience ...

Maybe, despite being a major blogger, you haven't spent much time thinking about the specific online experiences of women. In which case, you should know that women online--not just bloggers, but women in chat rooms or commenting on blogs or on internet forums--get twenty-five times more harassment than men do. That's not 25%; it's 2500%.

... but bare statistics are just numbers, too abstract, to cold and too detached from the actual experiences they document to make much of an impression on many people. So let's get personal, shall we?

Most men have never been raped, or threatened with rape, or subjected to verbal abuse based on their gender. Not all, by any means, but most men just don't have these experiences. That make sit a little hard to have any empathy for the women who have been raped, or beaten or verbally abused. But not impossible.

I've known several women in my life who have been sexually abused. Let me tell you their stories.

My first wife was anally raped by her father for years before she left home. She was in and out of therapy over the course of the next 2 decades because of this, and one of her therapists even took advantage of her trauma to sexually assault her as well (short of penetration, but a violation, nonetheless). When we were married she never told me anything at all about what her father had done to her. It was only years later that she confessed her dark secret to me. Because many women feel such shame about the experience that they are unable to tell even their own partners, the people they love and who love them.

My sister was also raped as a child. She was only nine or ten years old when it happened. Again, she hid what happened to her from her family for several years out of a combination of fear, shame and guilt. I won't share all the details, but it has had a lasting impact on her life.

I have a second cousin who was very close to my mother, and thus to all of our family, who married a man who regularly beat her, verbally abused her, raped her and made numerous threats to kill her. It sounds like a cliche, but she frequently wore large sunglasses and thick make-up to hide the black eyes and bruises he gave her. After she left him, she was so frightened she bought herself a pistol and learned how to shoot -- just in case. She was lucky to obtain a divorce and escape him and his violence, but we all know of instances of women who are not so lucky.

But the harassment or abuse doesn't have to rise to the level of actual rape to have a profound effect on many women. How many have had to endure sexism in the working place? How many have been the target of a male peer or superior at work who has attempted to coerce her to provide "sexual favors?" How many have had fathers, or brothers or husbands that verbally abuse them everyday in the most demeaning language? You know the words: Bitch. Slut. Ho. Cunt. Words that are bandied about by men often larger and more aggressive than the victim of their taunts.

So, I thought maybe an informal poll here at Daily Kos might prove useful. Nothing too complicated. Just vote whether you, as a male or female, have ever experienced any of the types of sexual, psychological and/or physical abuse that I've described above. If people are honest, I think I know how the poll should come out. But let's see, shall we.



Display:
Cross-posted at Daily Kos, where the poll referred to above is at the end of the diary.  I didn't feel the need to duplicate that poll here.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt
by Steven D on Fri Apr 13th, 2007 at 10:44:59 PM EST
And I even broke my own rule for myself and linked to it.
by Renee in Ohio on Fri Apr 13th, 2007 at 11:23:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
why do so many people defend what Kos wrote?

Because Kos wrote it. Americans are hero-worshippers and sheep. Aroused sheep, but sheep nonetheless. They love to not have to think through anything, and trust their leader. cf. Bush/Cheney/Reagan.

That's why, IMHO.

Share. Share resources, share delight, share burdens, share the healing. Sharing will bring us back from mass suicide. www.share-international.org

by Isis on Fri Apr 13th, 2007 at 10:58:07 PM EST
Yup.

Kos is, on this level, powerful.

A powerful asshole.

But that has never stopped people. Why would it be any different now?

Power talks, nobody walks.

Not very many people, anyway.

Just as it has always been.

So it goes.

Markos Moulitsas.

The Don Imus of blogdom.

Don Markos.

Master of all he surveys.

AG

Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie.-Mae West

by Arthur Gilroy (arthurgilroy<at>earthlink.net) on Fri Apr 13th, 2007 at 11:38:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is the hero worship thing. I don't think it's all totally a sheep thing. We have the right wing trashing anybody who is a leader on our side, and it's sort of the phenomena of we want to rally around our leaders.

Markos was wrong here though. Period. Healthy dissent is a sign of strength.

Come waste your time at NewPairodimes.

by trifecta on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 08:00:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't consider Markos my leader.

If you want things to get better, be prepared to deal with change.
by Kahli on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 08:48:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Kossacks do though for the most part. That was my point.
I don't consider him my leader either.

Come waste your time at NewPairodimes.
by trifecta on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 12:13:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that the answer is pretty simple though difficult.  Not a contradiction.

The men who do this despise women more than they love justice.  Sadly, the evidence points to this being true of Kos.  If Kos loved justice more than he resented women, there would have been an apology to Kathy Sierra  - a blogger almost on his order of magnitude, by the way, according to Technorati - and a "my brain was shot from 60 hours no sleep" post over at Big Orange.  Instead, he be chilling with the baby.  A man (or woman) who loves justice corrects an injustice, because they love justice more than they love pride or hate whomever they hurt.  Even if he did not have time to post, I know he had time to email Hunter or mcjoan to transcribe "I was wrong and I will talk about why after I get some sleep."

Hating women is reasonably common for men, let's be honest.  It's about as easy to conjure up an image of a man yelling "that worthless f&&&&ng bitch" as it is to conjure up an image of a cheese pizza.  Date rape, with date rape drugs or without, is common, quite common.  It's done by men who hate women; men who like women or at least respected them even slightly simply wouldn't do it, would not consider doing it.

So men don't blame the sick f%$& who shows a tech blogger - not a political battle blogger, a techie - strangled by a noose made from women's underwear and a "Strange Fruit" expression on her face, who published her home address and whose victimization gets the attention of the FBI.  They blame the "bitch" [sic] for having not nicely killed herself.  Why?  They hate her.

Christians say that Christianity is faith seeking understanding.  What drives those who piss on people like Kathy Sierra and those who cheer the "piss-ers" on is predatory hatred seeking socially acceptable cover.

Please check out Crablaw's Maryland Weekly for your Maryland commentary and snark needs.

by Crablaw on Fri Apr 13th, 2007 at 11:38:07 PM EST
The important thing to remember about Kos is that he supports the Democratic Party the way he supports his favorite baseball team -- because they're his team, not because he's ideologically driven by anything in particular. Moreover, as he has indicated time and again since before the pie fight, he blames practically all specific liberal causes for dragging down the Democratic Party, distracting it from some vague progressivism that doesn't actually mean anything. Kossack progressivism is an empty platform. It has no planks.

Ergo, women are the enemy. Uppity minorities are the enemy. Gays are the enemy. Environmentalists are the enemy. And so on. They all constitute single-issue splinter politics and are therefore liabilities.

Kos is in some ways the polar opposite of Martin Luther King. Remember when King said, "I may not get there with you..."? Well, Kos intends to get there himself and he doesn't give a fuck if you get there with him.

What this ultimately means for liberals for whom the Democratic Party is a means and not an end is that Kos has increasingly outlived his usefulness and needs to be jettisoned by the liberal blogosphere. For someone who is popularly perceived to be the major voice of the left online to be saying shit like this has become a liability for us.

---Cthulhu for President: Why vote for the lesser evil?

by eodell (eodell at naqada dot org) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 12:21:00 AM EST
I don't want to admit you are right but I think you are.

Please check out Crablaw's Maryland Weekly for your Maryland commentary and snark needs.
by Crablaw on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 12:28:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, at least he doesn't flip flop, does he.  In 2004 he told those that were concerned with women's issues they were ONE ISSUE voters and not to be tolerated, not on his site and not in the Democratic Party.

In 2005, after many attacks on those who dared to write diaries about women's issues and suggested democrats needed to pay attention to them were attacked by the "Frat Boy Rangers" with every vicious and vulgar insult you can imagine.  Then came:

THE PIE WARS.

Nothing has changed.  Markos has no room for or tolerance for anyone that thinks women's issues or concerns have any value.  You can slander, defame, threaten and demean women on kos anytime you want.  He will condone it and encourage it with his last straw Front Page diatribes and references to "women's studies groups" types.

I don't know if it is his former Republican affiliation or his cultural background, but women are open game on his site and he will NOT defend them, nor care.

 

don't miss ~ Matters of Spirit and Expanded Views

by shirlstars (shirlstarsw@aol.com) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 12:38:56 AM EST
I was going to reference the pie wars. Now that's done.

This is just as disgusting and there is NO defense.

Don't tread on me

by BobX on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 09:35:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Cultural background was the first thing that came to my mind.  These attitudes are handed down from generation to generation.  Hopefully his wife and daughter will stand up for themselves.  Perhaps change him.  We can hope.
by Heart of the Rockies on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 01:11:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suggested cultural background, if somewhat awkwardly, on Steve's earlier thread about this, but received flak for that. Anyway, this post on that thread does an excellent job of summarizing the relevant cultural background.
by Alexander on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 01:26:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Cultural background" is a cop-out--a substitute for sheer indolence.

Once anyone reaches the age of majority, they have brains; and are responsible to force their cognitive processes, attitudes, and behaviors.

Kos "owns" his ongoing misogynistic attitudes; and no--his wife cannot (nor should she attempt) to "change him" (that's so Tammy Wynette/Loretta Lynne).

The crux of the matter is that he's made a fortune off the backs of the women he's trashed (as w/I-Mess--it's a long-standing behavioral pattern...nothing new); and it shows in his ad revenue (which is the only reason he has the 'luxury' of being taking paternity leave (don't anyone pat him on the head, pls...he SHOULD be an engaged parent).

Few people in this country have paid maternity/paternity leave, folks...nor can they afford to take unpaid leave.

All men should actively parent...for fuck's sake; all he did was contribute less than a tsp. of sperm...his wife risked her life (twice) in childbirth.

I only hope she's intelligent enough to have her name on every asset they own.

I intentionally stayed off that congratulatory thread, re: his daughter's birth--I have sense and ethics enough not to toxify it (that's a sign of maturity--I coulda...but chose not to do so).

Doesn't mean I wasn't think it.

As long as people are hitting the front page over @Orange; (as well as refresh), his behavior isn't gonna shift (ad revenue will continue to ramp up).

Yes, it's partially "bandwagon" mindset, re: why people go there--too many progressives aren't.

Being a parent to a daughter ain't gonna change a fuckin' thang, folks...people who bully only cease said behavior when they're forced to do so--by a bigger bully (no incentive to otherwise shift behavior).

Yes--it's time his page views and frontpage traffic is replaced/coopted.

As with I-Mess, consequences to ongoing negativisitc power-mongering behavior (when incessantly insulting over half of the USA) need to hurt--be swift--as well as consistent.

Have at it.

"If we want a beloved community, we must stand for justice, have recognition for difference without attaching difference to privilege." bell hooks

by mainefem (mainefem@nospam.gmail.com) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 03:02:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not meant as a cop out.  It's an explanation not an excuse.

There are families and entire cultures that promote and support misogyny.  I think you are underestimating what it takes for someone to break out of it.

What one would hope is that Kos's love for his wife and daughter would sensitize him (wait until it happens to his daughter!) and that they could educate him to the world women live in.

I've witnessed such scenarios come to pass.  But he must first come to understand himself and want to change.

by Heart of the Rockies on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 10:52:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Virtually every current culture I can think of supports misogyny to a large degree.

In some cases it is overt and violent. Sometimes it is suppressed and violent.  Sometimes it is just denied.

If you want things to get better, be prepared to deal with change.

by Kahli on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 01:06:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is an important issue, and even if Kos does not apologize, at least we can continue this important discussion.

Learn more about Bobby Jindal.
by louisianagirl (fantastic [dot] reality -at- hotmail [dot] com) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 01:31:14 AM EST

The proverbial Devil's in the details, folks.

The past month:

Premium    $100,00 (1 ad running)  59,452,242   

Second Slot $75,000 (no ads running)  58,926,925   

Standard $26,000 (6 ads running)  57,355,624

Profit off the backs of 'single issue' women.

<cough>

"If we want a beloved community, we must stand for justice, have recognition for difference without attaching difference to privilege." bell hooks

by mainefem (mainefem@nospam.gmail.com) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 03:20:19 AM EST
I find kos fascinating because of the site he set up. I read his site (IT IS HIS, despite the 'community' bit)  everyday, but not to see what kos says, though, because I find him a bit too conservative for me, most markedly when it comes to social issues. He tends to avoid extremes, tends to deny that they even exist, seeks respectability and a kind of mushy, idealized world where the establishment still basically functions but has only gone a bit astray. That's my take on him up to now.

I read dailykos for all the fantastic diaries people post there.

by Quentin on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 06:06:35 AM EST
As he himself says, he's just a guy with a blog.  Unfortunately, this guy with a blog has now become prominent because of pageviews and not any special understanding or insight.  There are things posted there well worth reading, but Markos' posts can't be counted amongst these.  Commenting on the daily wrangling of politics is one thing, but perhaps he should stay away from other subjects if he can't even muster minimal feelings for the needs of others.  Not commenting at all would be preferable to a post such as his.

Oh, there you are, Perry. -Phineas -SLB-
by boran2 (blogistan@yahoo.com) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 08:27:25 AM EST
You've summed it up.  He isn't a deep thinker or good writer.  Pretty narrow minded.  I generally skip his posts.

But the site, as it has evolved is simply wonderful IMHO.  Even upsetting diaries like the one we're reacting to stimulate excellent discussions.  The front pagers are top notch, as are many of the regular diarists.

I read dKos for the news, discussions, new information and new insights.  It helps me understand the viewpoints of people who have lived a different life from mine, who are in a different generation or occupation, etc.  You know what I'm trying to say.

Maybe I'll get blasted because I'm not hopping on the "dKos is sh--" bandwagon, but there is much good about the site that I support.

by Heart of the Rockies on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 11:06:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not commenting at all would be preferable to a post such as his.

just what I was thinking

by AliceDem on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 11:08:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I highly recommend checking out this essay by tbrucegodfrey
Take Back the Blog! March
by Renee in Ohio on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 08:42:44 AM EST
Looks like there was a space in that link--wish I could go in and edit the comment, but I'll just have to repost the link
http://www.myleftwing.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=15999
by Renee in Ohio on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 08:55:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for the link.

It is a very eloquent diary and spot on.

by Heart of the Rockies on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 11:32:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sigh....  For Markos, I think this is simply another manifestation of the same lack of empathy/sensitivity he's shown before for women or the particular issues that women (or any other group) face that don't affect him personally.  He simply doesn't get it. He can't comprehend the problem -- can't see beyond the privilege of being an adult male, where the chances of him ever feeling vulnerable in that way are slim to none. He can afford to shrug off 95% of the nasty emails he gets; no one has actually made him feel AFRAID for his family's safety. Therefore he thinks ALL people, regardless of their past experiences or gender or age, are (or should be) just like him. Part of this is his personality, part is probably cultural, and part is his own personal history, growing up where and when he did. This is reason, not excuse... but there it is.

Sadly, I think the other big factor in the pile-on of support is that (1) he's hardly alone in not seeing past his own nose when it comes to other people's issues versus his own, and (2) Kathy Sierra is not a member of the Daily KOS community, so there's no sense of sympathetic connection or understanding of what a blogger outside the "tribe" is going through. Which is sad also - those who are standing up for her are those who have the greatest empathy for how these threats make HER feel, as opposed to how a threat might make THEM feel. If similar threats had been levied against one of the well-known women posters there, you would have seen a huge defensive swarm rise up -- look at the support one poster there has gotten when his daughter was murdered last week.

But Kathy is a stranger -- most members of DKos had never heard of her before this, had never read her blog or have any interest in its content (which is not at all political or controversial). While there is some logic in a blogger like Markos or the other prominent posters at DKos or any other political blog attracting the vehement bile and nastiness of trolls and assholes, there is NO logic behind threatening a technical writer and trainer like Kathy, EXCEPT to terrify her.

At least Markos (and any poster at a political blog) knows there's an opposition out there, and anyone who's been on the political blogs for any length of time has seen the vicious crap that gets thrown around -- political bloggers DO need a thicker skin, but at least bloggers like Markos or Atrios or Hunter or Armando know that from the start. But imagine you were posting about something else entirely -- something basically non-controversial, such as your family history research, or raising orchids, or caring for a special needs child, or writing science fiction, or (as Kathy does) technical training issues. And you got rape and death threats... from someone who clearly knew who you were and how to find you.

I'd sure as hell be terrified, too. And I think many women would be. And that's what Markos doesn't get, and perhaps his supporters don't get or haven't considered.... and that's both sad and a problem, because they cannot achieve one of their primary stated goals -- getting more Democrats elected -- if they cannot comprehend what it is that makes people who are not exactly like them vote the way they do.

Keith Olbermann speaks for me.

by JanetT in MD on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 11:20:28 AM EST
Worth a 10, but alas 4 is as high as I can go!
by Heart of the Rockies on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 11:37:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thqnks for posting this Steven. Threats should always be taken seriously. Imagine what would happen if the cops would have Kos' attitude. They take every threat seriously. As for Kos, he is a total moron.
by cruz del sur (nicodekoenigsberg@yahoo.com) on Fri Apr 13th, 2007 at 11:08:16 PM EST
Thanks, Steven, for all of your posts on this.

mbr + dv + woyg
by keirdubois (keir@mybandrocks.com) on Sat Apr 14th, 2007 at 12:38:31 AM EST
Why defend Kos?  It is easier than thinking.  Kos has made it.  He must be right.

My first serious girlfriend had been raped by her older brother when she was 12. At the time we both were 17.  I did notknow how to deal with it.  I wish I could have showed the compassion to hhelp her work thru it.  She was a nice young lady.

Really,  Kos doesn't have a clue.  Who annointed him to be the "Arbiter of the Rules"?

by Chief on Fri Apr 13th, 2007 at 11:24:13 PM EST


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