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Gunman Kills 20+ at Virginia Tech

by Steven D
Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 02:06:15 PM EST

This is horrific. CNN's report says 21. ABC's report says 29 dead. A local Fox station in Washington, D.C., and WaPo now claim 32 dead. (h/t to ejmw).

Bush's comments on the shooting (as conveyed by Dana Perino, White House Deputy Press Secretary):

"He was horrified and his immediate reaction was one of deep concern for the families of the victims, the victims themselves, the students, the professors and all the people of Virginia who have dealt with this shocking incident," White House deputy press secretary Dana Perino said. "His thoughts and prayers are with them."
"The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed," Perino said, noting that Bush and Education Secretary Margaret Spellings held a conference on school gun violence last October. "Certainly, bringing a gun into a school domitory and shooting … is against the law and something someone should be held accountable for," Perino said.

Questions for Ms. Perino: Isn't it just a wee bit inappropriate to insert the 2nd amendment and the right to bear arms in the same breath as your statement about the President's reaction to this horrible event? Is that really the best time to openly kowtow to the NRA and the gun lobby?

Update [2007-4-16 15:33:0 by Steven D]: The Post Chronicle reports that the shooter was looking for his estranged girlfriend while the shootings were in progress.

SECOND Update [2007-4-16 15:39:46 by Steven D]: Here's a useful resource with detailed information on school shootings since 1997. (cont.)

CNN

(CNN) -- A lone gunman is dead after police said he killed at least 21 people Monday during twin shootings on the Virginia Tech campus -- the worst school shooting incident in U.S. history. [...]
The Associated Press quoted officials saying more than 20 people were wounded. A hospital spokeswoman told AP that 17 Virginia Tech students were being treated for gunshot wounds and other injuries.
Sharon Honaker at the Carilion New River Valley Medical Center in nearby Christiansburg, Virginia, told CNN that four patients had been transported there, one in critical condition.
One person was killed and others were wounded at multiple locations inside a dormitory about 7:15 a.m., Flinchum said. Two hours later, another shooting at Norris Hall, the engineering science and mechanics building, resulted in multiple casualties, the university reported. (Campus map) The first reported shooting occurred at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a four-story coed dormitory that houses 895 students. The dormitory, one of the largest residence halls on the 2,600-acre campus, is located near the drill field and stadium.
Amie Steele, editor-in-chief of the campus newspaper, said one of her reporters at the dormitory reported "mass chaos."

ABC

Apr. 16, 2007— At least 29 people are dead in what may be the biggest mass shooting in American history — and the death toll may rise.
At least 17 injured students were admitted to local hospitals.

WaPo

Thirty-two people have reportedly been killed and more than two dozen others injured during a shooting rampage this morning at Virginia Tech, making it the deadliest shooting spree in U.S. history, according to law enforcement sources.

AP map graphic of Campus showing where the shootings took place:

Gunman Kills 20+ at Virginia Tech | 34 comments (34 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Gunman Kills 21 at Virginia Tech (4.00 / 2)

Word is that the death count is now 32. That is via Fox News. ABC says 29.

Jesus.

Tengo un sueño.

by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 02:09:09 PM EST

Re: Gunman Kills 21 at Virginia Tech (4.00 / 2)

Thanks for the update from Fox. I suspect the rise of the death toll may be the result of people who died at a hospital or en route to one. God, what a miserable world we live in.

Obama is a Patriot

by Steven D on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 02:18:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gunman Kills 21 at Virginia Tech (4.00 / 2)

I suspect you're right. It's also possible that they are still finding casualties in the school, the gunman was walking the halls unloading into classrooms.

Tengo un sueño.

by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 02:20:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Imagine (4.00 / 2)

That's just another day in Iraq...a slow one, anyway.

by CabinGirl on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 02:18:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Imagine (none / 0)

Yes, like I said, a miserable world.

Obama is a Patriot

by Steven D on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 02:23:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gunman Kills 20+ at Virginia Tech (4.00 / 5)

I was a student on campus at the UA the day that three nursing profs were killed. It was a horrific/scary time. I feel for the entire Virginia Tech community and the families of those who are there. It will not be an easy task to restore normalcy, and will take a long, long time.

Latino Político v3.0

by Man Eegee (man.eegee at gmail.com) on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 02:20:52 PM EST

Re: Gunman Kills 20+ at Virginia Tech (4.00 / 2)

A question that has been simmering for awhile: could this country possibly be any more stressed out?

War fatigue is rampant. All manifestations of war.

Latino Político v3.0

by Man Eegee (man.eegee at gmail.com) on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 02:29:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gunman Kills 20+ at Virginia Tech (4.00 / 3)

We are a sick, weakened society. And the worst thing about that is fascism thrives in a sick, weakened society.

Obama is a Patriot

by Steven D on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 02:34:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gunman Kills 20+ at Virginia Tech (none / 1)

We sure seem to have lost our way.

If you want things to get better, be prepared to deal with change.

by Kahli on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 02:31:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Had a cousin in Science Bldg (4.00 / 2)

I heard the breaking news. I had two first cousins that were alums of VT that are my age. Called back home. One of their kids was there at VT in the Science Bldg in a class where all that awful stuff happened.

The fragments of the story that I picked up was someone was shooting in a hallway outside a classroom she was in.

She's fine physically. Her mom and dad are in the car headed to Blacksburg. Hopefully they have matured in their attitudes toward therapy. That part of the family didn't used to believe in "shrinks." Hope that's changed. she's going to need trained support.

"...Dammit, whatever happened to the concept of accountability for catastrophic failure?..." -Al Gore

by afs on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 02:49:21 PM EST

Re: Had a cousin in Science Bldg (none / 1)

I have college age kids, and that's what they are - still children. Your young relative has just learned first hand that she's not safe anywhere. That's something to work through....you're right.

"Don't waste your time on the clowns, watch the real show"

by Second Nature on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 06:28:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gunman Kills 20+ at Virginia Tech (4.00 / 2)

Paraphrasing a CNN anchorette looking at research into several recent school shootings for commonality -
"Oh my, they were all foreigners!"

No mention of living in a stressful gun culture or the easy access to firearms.

I am way too angry to watch any speculation about why this could happen. Might as well wait a while for the experts to explain it all to me.

by Alice on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 03:31:06 PM EST

High-capacity magazines (4.00 / 3)

High-capacity magazines were illegal under the Assault Weapons Bill. In the infinite wisdom of the NRA and their little pet political party, the Repukeliwhores, the ban on high-capacity magazines was not renewed. This guy was able to discharge between 50-100 rounds because he had high-capacity magazines.

by dataguy on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 07:30:31 PM EST

Re: High-capacity magazines (4.00 / 2)

What possible use can a civilian have for high capacity magazines unless he wants to do what this guy did today?

Another point: I think the ratio of fatalities to injuries is pretty high. I suspect that the shooter was using hollow point bullets. I found out only recently that they are legal for civilians: that too is crazy.

The boxes the bullets come in don't even have "hollow point" appear anywhere on them; they are described simply as "personal protection".

The Clintons represent the Republican wing of the Democratic party.

by Alexander on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 09:11:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

About the estranged girlfriend (4.00 / 2)

We know that death threats against women are all made up, don't we?

by Tehanu on Tue Apr 17th, 2007 at 07:40:37 AM EST

Re: Gunman Kills 20+ at Virginia Tech (none / 1)

WaPo now saying 32 as well. "reportedly" not "confirmed" though.

Tengo un sueño.

by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 02:22:01 PM EST

Re: Gunman Kills 20+ at Virginia Tech (none / 1)

Cripe.

I can only imagine the anguish of the families and firends of anyone associated with Virginia Tech at the moment.

It is also causing flashbacks of an incident when I was working security at University of Michigan. A resident pulled a fire alarm and then shot 7 people as they tried to leave the building. It was horrible. And this sounds much worse.

If you want things to get better, be prepared to deal with change.

by Kahli on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 02:23:12 PM EST

Virginia Tech (4.00 / 2)

My son graduated from VT over 6 years ago. At that time, my perception of the school was that it may have been one of the best values in America in that it gave a first class education in an wonderful environment for a reasonable cost. A first class physical institution as well! Now that is hard to say in American education today! Even their football team was improving!

Unless things have changed drastically there in the last few years, I would have to say that this episode today is a symptom of a more widespread serious social illness in this country rather than a fault with Virgina Tech.

I feel truly sad and sick today!

by NG on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 03:11:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Tech (none / 1)

This has nothing to do with the kind of university VT is. This could happen anywhere, at any school.

Obama is a Patriot

by Steven D on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 03:15:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Virginia Tech (none / 0)

Oh dear, I'm sorry if my comment sounded like a criticism of VT. That was not at all my intention.
I just meant that when things like this happen to people we love/know/ or are associated with, the pain seems that much more palpable.

I feel horror and sadness at the event, but I'm sure I would feel it more strongly if I knew someone who was there and had been harmed or endangered.

Some have pointed out the violence in Iraq as a comparison on some level to this event. I grieve for the Iraqis, but I'm sure my grief pales alongside that of a spouse or parent who has just lost a loved one in an explosion.

I feel like I'm doing a reall poor job of explaining this. Bottom line, I feel not criticism for VT only heartfelt sympathy.

If you want things to get better, be prepared to deal with change.

by Kahli on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 03:55:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Without explosives and guns, (none / 1)

it is hard for one person to easily and quickly kill 30 people!!!! You cannot very well outlaw crazy people and depressed people, but it is tempting to outlaw explosives and guns!!

Maybe that won't totally eliminate such threats, but as a society, we must at least make it a bit difficult to go out and slaughter 30 students in a few minutes! Could things be worse for our society than it is now with guns as popular and available as leaves on trees in the summer!?????

by NG on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 02:55:42 PM EST

Re: Without explosives and guns, (4.00 / 4)

Not to mention the fact that most politicians would call for the destruction of Social Security before drawing the ire of the gun lobby.

Latino Político v3.0

by Man Eegee (man.eegee at gmail.com) on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 03:01:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

guns and more guns (4.00 / 5)

the level of discourse already surfacing from the right is mind bogglingly disgusting:

presidential spokesperson:

"...the president believes that people have the right to bear arms, but..."

but what?...he will make a statement this pm...what's the over/under on 911 being part of it...bah!

and the epitome of lunacy, glenn reynolds: more guns are the answer:

UPDATE: More here and here. And some background here. And reader John Lucas, who works with a Virginia law firm, emails that Va. Tech is a "gun-free zone." Well, for those who follow the law. There was an effort to change that but it failed: "A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly." That's unfortunate. Had the bill passed, things might have turned out differently, though we'll never know now.
h/t C&L

l really don't recognize this country anymore...this is really beyond sad.

ITMF'sA

lTMF'sA...the revolution will not be televised...Peace

by dada on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 03:17:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rwanda massacre was mostly machettes (4.00 / 3)

If people are driven to hate others deeply enough, it's surprising the ingenious ways we can figure out to butcher each other.

I understand your point. I tend to believe the root cause for this type of ugliness is the numerous ways our leaders have sought to separate us and turn us against one another. They pit various groups against each other to distract the people's attention while they loot and plunder for their own personal gain. You keep pitting people against each other, and something gotta blow somewhere.

"...Dammit, whatever happened to the concept of accountability for catastrophic failure?..." -Al Gore

by afs on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 03:14:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Without explosives and guns, (none / 1)

Rwanda

by david anderson on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 04:01:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gunman Kills 20+ at Virginia Tech (none / 1)

I find the way they included that statement to placate the gun lobby disturbing, and I'm pro-gun. The gun politics (both for and against) can and should wait. Tossing them in a statement of condolences is bullshit.

But don't condemn any of the blogs on the right for starting to talk about gun rights if you are willing to post on the left about this being an example of why we should ban guns. You are doing the same thing.

The simple truth is that if guns were banned, there would almost certainly be less people dead at VT, and if CC guns were legal on campus, there would certainly be fewer dead as well. Both sides are right. So let's forget the argument for now and morn the dead.

by david anderson on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 03:59:13 PM EST

"...if CC guns were legal..." (none / 1)

that is patently absurd. if you'd care to, please direct me to any studies that support that reasoning.

l'm not anti-gun, and no one in this thread has called for the banning of guns. what l'm anti is the wild, wild west, john wayne mindset that believes if everybody had one, no one would dare use them...or maybe it's based in some macho fantasy about being the hero and saving everybody else...[see glen reynolds quote above].

vigilantism has out lived it's usefulness, if it ever had one, and paranoia is not a valid reason for carrying a gun...get over it.

lTMF'sA...the revolution will not be televised...Peace

by dada on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 05:36:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gunman Kills 20+ at Virginia Tech (none / 1)

I think that why your claim that if guns were legal on campus, there would be fewer fatalities, is wrong is the following.

The gunman has a tremendous advantage over an armed citizen who would try to play hero by taking the gunman out. That's because the gunman doesn't have to be careful with his aiming: he doesn't care about whom he kills. But the helpful citizen, when he shoots, has to take care that he will only hit the gunman, not an innocent bystander. The gunman can shoot with wild abandon, but the helpful citizen must take careful aim.

The Clintons represent the Republican wing of the Democratic party.

by Alexander on Tue Apr 17th, 2007 at 02:42:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Guns are tools of attack, not defense (none / 0)

The attacker has the advantage, always.

By the time you can get your own weapon out (and round chambered, and safety off) you are already dead.

So it is just not going to work.

Not to mention you will add on gun accidents as well.

That link on etiology is interesting. The common threads: Parental neglect--extending to complete cluelessness, psychoactive drugs from an early age to manage behavioral problems, lack of social support, absence of authoritative intervention (no time, no staff, no funding). Generally there are plenty of indicators, but those who notice can do nothing, and those who could intervene, do not notice.

This is the dark underside of our society, and it is not going away. It IS us, in the post-New Deal, globalized, "free" market, no "safety-net" environment.

In one respect (one only) Iraq is better off: They know what is being done to their society. We remain clueless, and in denial.

by Gaianne on Tue Apr 17th, 2007 at 04:28:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gunman Kills 20+ at Virginia Tech (none / 0)

"Guns don't kill people, criminals kill people"...
NRA quote.

by parvenu on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 04:38:37 PM EST

That is really sick (none / 1)

Bush pandering to his base the NRA even in the face of such carnage. But then it probably turned him on. He doesn't seem to be squeamish a bit with other people's gore.

Grandma Jo

by glitterscale (glitteryscale@yahoo.com) on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 05:01:34 PM EST

Re: Gunman Kills 20+ at Virginia Tech (none / 1)

Read an analysis of the influences in our "Chain Letter Society" that may be precipitating events like the tragedy at Virginia Tech and how our focus on winning and being number one may be fostering a generation of children with fully inadequate coping skills who have a misguided sense of self-worth...here:

www.thoughttheater.com

Daniel DiRito

by Daniel DiRito on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 06:57:58 PM EST

This is kind of freaky but (none / 1)

I just finished a major research project and multimedia presentation on school shootings and submitted it last night. I was completely wiped out, physically and emotionally, and I woke up to this.

by YetiMonk on Tue Apr 17th, 2007 at 01:24:03 AM EST

Re: Gunman Kills 20+ at Virginia Tech (none / 0)

As I read through the comments here and elsewhere, it becomes crystal clear that to the folks on the right, more guns are always the answer.

If the students and teachers had been armed, this wouldn't have happened, could have defended themselves and on and on.

Guns are always the answer for them, no matter the question.

Next they will seriously advocate, again, that everyone be required to carry a sidearm as a crime reduction measure.

by zak822 on Tue Apr 17th, 2007 at 10:04:31 AM EST

Gunman Kills 20+ at Virginia Tech | 34 comments (34 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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