Booman Tribune ~ A Progressive Community

A Confession

by BooMan
Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 02:38:30 PM EST

I don't really want to bring this up again but I do want to set the record straight. Back in February we had a major disruption in the peaceful Frog Pond when I got upset with a member for discussing my private life. Many members of the community were angry about the behavior of MilitaryTracy and wanted me to ban her from the site. A theory was offered that I was showing leniency to Tracy because she is friends with my girlfriend. You can see the beginning of the problem here.

I don't want to rehash all of this. For those of you that followed the controversy, here is all you need to know.

A member named spiderleaf linked to a picture of me and my girlfriend and said that it explained why I wasn't banning Tracy. I asked her when she first learned we were dating and why she thought it was appropriate to discuss my private life. She said she had just recently learned about us from looking at the picture. I knew she was lying and I accused her of discussing our relationship with catnip months before. She denied it and called me a liar. Many people, not knowing the details didn't believe I was being fair in my angry reaction. I don't take kindly to people lying to me, calling me a liar, and invading my privacy.

Now the truth has come out. In the comments at the paparazzi site MoBettaMeta, spiderleaf makes a confession.

And catnip, I don't do blackmail as your email to me just tried.
Yes, I told you I thought / heard that CG and Martin were dating way back in the day. It was just a rumour and I had no proof, but I suspected as did others.
I had forgotten about it when I was talking to Martin on BooTrib, but I did. I certainly didn't think I was the only one as you had indicated others had, but I did. I found out somehow around yearlykos and it didn't become an issue until they both enabled MilitaryTracy's hate speech.
It wasn't malicious on my part, I was trying to defend you from the "I just threw up" image Martin posted in response to CG questioning your buddhist credentials.
So everyone, I apologize for telling catnip and not admiting it to Martin when he was harrassing me over here. Martin, I don't apologize for trying to stop Tracy from being abusive and your enabling her behaviour. Life is full of lessons and I've grown a lot from my experiences online these last few years.
There catnip, you have nothing to hold over my head any more.
spiderleaf | 06.26.07 - 1:42 pm | #

This was confirmed by catnip shortly thereafter in a private email (that I won't cite). In defense of catnip, she pointedly never denied that spiderleaf had told her about my relationship, but merely insisted I had no way of knowing for sure.

As for spiderleaf, she is still lying. She knew about my relationship for certain because she discussed it with people that knew us and had hung out with us. She should just come all the way clean, since she has already confessed to quite enough. Holding back just keeps her from a clean slate. I'm not going to get into a lot more detail here, because my only interest is in all the people that were part of this controversy knowing that I was right at the time and that I told the truth throughout the whole sad episode.

For the record, MilitaryTracy is a friend of mine and any leniency I showed her was a result of my own feelings for her, not in deference to anyone else. I ultimately convinced Tracy to ban herself and cut off her privileges to help her keep her promise. For people that thought I handled it badly, I probably did, but I was actually distracted by what I considered to be a trollish attack on my personal life and my character that had arisen in the same thread. And that, I hope, is the end of this damaging episode.

A Confession | 51 comments (51 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

BooMan (4.00 / 2)

Wait a minute?!? You have a girlfriend?!? WTF?

Well, Watson, we seem to have fallen upon evil days. Sherlock Holmes

by Carnacki (Carnacki AT hauntedvampire DOT com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 03:13:27 PM EST

Re: BooMan (none / 1)

Yeah...I totally thought he was gay...

I kid, I kid.

ProgressiveHistorians: History and Politics Of, By, and For the People

by Nonpartisan (nonpartisan@progressivehistorians.com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 04:19:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 4)

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

Fear will keep the local systems in line. -Grand Moff Tarkin Survivor Left Blogistan

by boran2 (blogistan@yahoo.com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 03:21:51 PM EST

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 5)

I am very sorry you decided to write this, especially copying the commnents above.

It was never a question for me about who was right - but how people treated each other. Hanging on to some notion of being right is cold comfort when you need a friend.

Doesn't information itself have a liberal bias? Steven Colbert

by NLinStPaul on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 09:54:32 PM EST

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

Friends don't carry on a year long deception and enter into secret agreements to never divulge the truth that they all lying about me and calling me a liar and calling people I care about liars.

This site was disrupted and damaged because people that were posing as concerned members of this community and were privately saying they were my friends, decided to launch a personal attack against me, use my private life as a point of argument, and then cover it all up.

Anyone that wondered why I was more outraged by spiderleaf's behavior than MilitaryTracy's and had a lower opinion of me for that can now read for themselves a full-on (well, almost) confession.

As far as I am concerned, a lot of people were taken in by the argument that they were making, not realizing that this was pure trolling.

The record is only here to set things straight. The damage cannot be undone.

by BooMan on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 10:16:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 9)

I'n not here to defend anyone. Its just sad to me that you still hang on to these battle lines and what looks to me like a completely narrow view of the whole situation. I've actually composed diaries in my head that I've never written about how often I grieve what this place once was - its like a good friend I lost and won't ever get back. Maybe that was never the place you had in mind when you started all of this - but it was something really special and meant alot to me.

While all you seem to see is tracy, spider and catnip, I think about all the other voices lost - shirstars, diane, teach, kidspeak, janet, blueneck, scribe, alohaleezy, supersoling- not to mention the others lost in the previous dustup with tracy like ductape, nanette and dove (I know I'm missing folks but those are just the names that come to me this late at night). And then there are others, who obviously still hang out here - but pulled back their participation.

It was all an enormous loss - to me. And that's what I mean about the cold comfort of being "right." I just don't see how you can write something like this in light of that loss. But that's just my point of view.

Doesn't information itself have a liberal bias? Steven Colbert

by NLinStPaul on Wed Jun 27th, 2007 at 01:46:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 4)

Yes, thank you for articulating this NL.

Latino Político | "We are condemned to kill time, thus we die bit by bit." - Octavio Paz

by Man Eegee (man.eegee at gmail.com) on Wed Jun 27th, 2007 at 01:52:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 2)

Yes, thank you!

by mythmother (mythmother (at) gmail.com) on Wed Jun 27th, 2007 at 02:35:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 3)

Too many gone.

Fear will keep the local systems in line. -Grand Moff Tarkin Survivor Left Blogistan

by boran2 (blogistan@yahoo.com) on Wed Jun 27th, 2007 at 12:06:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 3)

It was an enormous loss to me as well, Nancy. Every person you named in your comment that has left here over all of this was someone I cared deeply about, respected so much, and loved being around. This had been my online home base for a long time too: one I was glad to contribute my own substantial body of work to almost exclusively.

What was the hardest blow, Boo,was seeing how LITTLE of how any of the rest us felt meant to you. You just expected us to "take" whatever a friend of yours handed out, no matter how vicious or how hurtful. You just didn't seem to care, period.

I know I was only one of many who tried so hard, in public and in private, to help you see what this was costing this community as a whole, and offered you no end of help and feedback. Whole groups of people worked their butts off trying to help. But none of it mattered. Especially once you took on the crusade you are still on, of proving yourself "right" about a long ago incident that pissed you off.

That this included members who had worked their butts off from the very beginning here, to help you build this blog, as well as those who came later like me, speaks volumes to me, about how little you value those who have been loyal to you and have helped you build this place.

Boo, your own choices caused the departure of many long time loyal and valued members here, and this post is front page proof that being "right" and proving someone else a "liar" about an long ago event, still matters more to you than just about anything.

Your choices deeply hurt many good and loyal members Boo. So much that many of us had to leave a place we truly cared about and had invested heavily in.

That reality seems to have completely escaped you in your focus on your own need to be "right" .

So much cost, Boo, to others and to your own blog, just for that small, fleeting satisfaction.

ONward!

by scribe (scribe40@comcast.net) on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 12:38:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

That's an interesting take.

I had hoped that a couple of things would inform people's minds.

Obviously I have the most to lose by losing my credibility. It would seem unlikely that I would engage in dishonest discourse if I cared at at all about the health of this community. Yet, many people entertained, seriously, the idea I was lying. I don't really know why. It's not that I had any credibility problems. Maybe some people just didn't care as long as their side of an argument seemed to be winning.
I did reach out to all the people that were upset about the 'military' issue. I went over to the other sites and engaged people. They refused to understand that I had banned no one on either side of the debate until I was personally attacked.

Scribe, you have spent plenty of time with these people off BT by now. They have exposed themselves for what they are. Maybe I was right about their ill intentions at the time?

I was not and am not indifferent to the people that left. But they have the ability to look at the facts now. If they they don't want to revise their opinion of what was really happening at the time, then, I can't really explain it now.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 12:59:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 1)

Please stop trying to "inform my mind" about your side of this old battle between you and spider. I didn't care about it then, nor do I care about it now.

What I CARED about was the painful OUTCOME of how you chose to handle this whole mess. The EFFECTS of it on so many good people, that led to the actual disintegration of a core community many valued so much.

You refuse consistently to even acknowledge this aspect, no matter how many times you're told how it affected others, you just deflect it over and over back to your own needs/feelings and "those bad people who did this bad thing TO YOU!"

You said, "I was not and am not indifferent to the people that left. But they have the ability to look at the facts now"

You are not hearing me at ALL.

I could care less about those "facts" because those "facts", whatever the hell they are, had not one damned thing to do with why I left this place. Not. One.

And my comment was a bit more than an "interesting take" to me, Boo. It was an honest description of a very painful experience I had right here at Boo Trib, because of your choices of how you wanted to run it.
One that still stings, because I still miss what it was, and those I knew here, a lot.

Of course, those are just messy human feelings, not "facts."

ONward!

by scribe (scribe40@comcast.net) on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 01:57:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

what you did not and do not care about is informative.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 02:03:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 3)

FWIW, she is articulating alot of my own thoughts too. I understand that this was a deeply personal incident for you and CG, but if you 'zoom out' abit you will see that there was a whole other side of it going on from the people who didn't get the behind-the-scenes emails that I'm sure were extensive and led to alot of the public actions taken.

You said up above to me that you couldn't "meet some standard" and that's not what this was about at all wrt the comments offered, it's to try and get you to see that the public fallout of this is much bigger than whether or not your relationship was dragged into the middle of it.

I know that that is central to this post and others you've written on it, but the reality to alot of people - including me - is that it was much bigger than that. Whether anyone lied or didn't during that time doesn't excuse the fact that there was a lot of abusive comments coming from one poster who you chose to lament about losing instead of recognizing that there was a bigger problem occurring. Even Oui saw it. Read the comments to your MT-goodbye post and you'll see by the rating that alot of us agreed with that observation.

I hear alot of pain and loss in scribe and NL's comments, my guess is that it would be nice to see some recognition of the larger picture from you. Your comment to her that her focus is "informative" is far too vague to understand exactly what you're trying to say. I don't believe she is speaking out of spite, but out of a genuine hope that you'll see where others are coming from.

Not trying to pick a fight here, just offering what I hope is some insight into the way this whole thing played out in public through a different lense than yours.

Latino Político | "We are condemned to kill time, thus we die bit by bit." - Octavio Paz

by Man Eegee (man.eegee at gmail.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 04:42:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 3)

You're right ManE, there's no spite behind my comments: thank's for seeing that.

Back then, Boo, this place, (whether you planned this or not) had become like an online family grouping,or community,for many of us. Like it or not, because this is your place, that made you it's leader, or it's "parent", so to speak.

When I flew in here with my tail feathers in bright orange flames, I said I'd never trust any online leader type to be who they seemed, ever again. Yet in time, I did come to trust you, Boo..to be open minded, and a fair and equitable blog leader/parent.

Trusting someone means opening up the heart a bit, and that makes it a bit more vulnerable. So when the bad storms came here and threatened to blow these walls down on all of us, I thought you'd be there for all of us, and somehow together, we'd figure out how to weather it.

You weren't there for all of us, Boo. You turned away from us to take care of a favored one. We yelled and yelled "Hey BOO, the walls are caving in on US too!..Let us help you shore them UP!" and you did not hear or care.

You just asked us to help you take care of the favored one: to not take her attacks personally no matter how much blood she drew. And from there, once you felt personally attacked, THATS where your focus and attention went, and where it apparently still is.

Well, we couldn't hold up the walls without you, Boo, and they fell down while were completely occupied with your favored ones, then with your crusade to save your own personal "credibility". So off we drifted, one by one. Or were banned because we pissed you off somehow.

And STILL I can't tell if you really even cared. Boo. I honestly can't.

I am NOT trying to "inform your mind", Boo. I am trying to reach the heart I know damned well you have. Why I keep trying to just beats the hell outa me. Something just has never let me stay totally away from here, even though my OWN "head" knows that would be a wise thing for me to do.

ONward!

by scribe (scribe40@comcast.net) on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 10:35:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

That is not what happened, that is what a group of people perceived to be happening because they did not believe me when I told them catnip and spiderleaf were trolls deliberately stoking the fires and deliberately disrupting the site.

I'm not going to argue the history anymore because it makes me too angry.

But I will say this. Yes, I was very upset and sad to see people go. Especially the people that I felt were being taken in by a totally specious argument.

I will once again remind you that Tracy was suspended (voluntarily) and when she came back she was rather promptly convinced to ban herself. But no one else was banned during all the flamewars until spiderleaf decided to get personal and lie about it.

The so-called double standard simply didn't exist.

And one piece of history:

The culmination of the flamewar occurred when Tracy's daughter posted a diary asking her to walk away. I saw it before Tracy did and before it had any comments. I wanted to erase it but decided Tracy needed to see it. I hoped that people would have the good taste not to comment in it. In retrospect I should have cut of the comments so no one would. But supersoling couldn't help himself and decided to correct Tracy's daughter on some point of fact.

Tracy responded with anger and with language that caused me to warn her that she had no more second chances. Any more outbursts and she would be banned. That was my ruling.

That ruling was disliked by many, who insisted she should be banned outright and immediately. I stuck by my ruling and quietly convinced her offline that she should walk away, just as her daughter had advised. That is what happened.

And then supersoling lied in the same thread to cover up for spiderleaf, and continued to lie publicly even after he had admitted lying to me in a private email.

That is what happened. And now I am done with it.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 10:50:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 2)

I hear you're done - and that's fine. But I'm going to put a question out just in case it can help me clarify a bit.

I will once again remind you that Tracy was suspended (voluntarily) and when she came back she was rather promptly convinced to ban herself.

Perhaps you didn't read all the diaries and comments I did in between these two events where Tracy unleashed her fury on just about everyone here. At first, many of us tried to reach out to her, knowing she was facing her husband's redeployment and trying our best to support her. But she met all of that with not much but fury. When it hit people like Diane, Janet and Boston Joe - I knew she needed professional help and that letting her continue to blast away here was actually more destructive to her, not to mention to this community. Did you not see all of that?? That final blast at Super was just one in a long line that were equally egregious (prickish, if you will).

Doesn't information itself have a liberal bias? Steven Colbert

by NLinStPaul on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:07:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

I didn't read all of it at the time. For example, I never saw whatever happened with Janet. And I have apologized for not handling it better at the time. Repeatedly.

And, of course I know that her blast at supersoling was a culmination of a lot of stuff. It was in her daughter's diary, asking her to step away.

The truth is that I was going to ban Tracy as soon as I saw her daughter's diary, but only if I couldn't convince her to take her daughter's advice.

And I issued her a last chance warning that I also knew she would violate...which was another way of banning her.

At the time I was a lot more alarmed to see her daughter posting than I was about the need to ban her publicly and loudly to suit everyone's tastes.

Obviously it was a bad decision for the health of the community, but I had good reasons for it.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:44:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 1)

"Scribe is one of the last people that I would look to to find genuine remorse. She was one of the people most taken in by spiderleaf and catnip, to the point she actually joined their efforts at meta destruction as an unwitting buffoon. And I would forgive it if I saw any recognition that she was used and played for a fool."

I probably ought to thank you thank you for finally being honest about how feel about me, Boo. Because it certainly snapped the last tiny strand of my connection here, and marks the absolute last time you will ever see me here again.

Bet on it.

Not one more hit, no matter how much I will miss Stevens work and that of others here I respect and read regularly. As if you care.

As for you, can take your arrogant, narcissistic self straight to hell, and your blog too, for all I care.

You are not who I thought you were. You're just another arrogant, self involved ass.

The end.

ONward!

by scribe (scribe40@comcast.net) on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:29:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

I read this before:

What I have to say here goes for you and for ALL blog "owners" who are now running all over the place whining and screaming about how they've been so maligned and mistreated, demanding apologies, and other wise stamping your petulant little feet like pissed off gradechoolers.
YOU ALL CHOSE to set yourself up as the sovereign leaders of a communnity blogs. If you were too stupid to understand that everyone who places themselves in visible leadership positions AUTOMATICALLY become walking targets, and do not possess the kills to handle this inevitability, you are not qualified to "lead" anyone anywhere, except down whatever crapper YOU fall unto yourself.

I'm a walking target to you.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:36:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

sorry, Manny.

I have a memory.

And when my memory fails me, I have google.

Scribe is one of the last people that I would look to to find genuine remorse. She was one of the people most taken in by spiderleaf and catnip, to the point she actually joined their efforts at meta destruction as an unwitting buffoon.

And I would forgive it if I saw any recognition that she was used and played for a fool.

And before I get angry at this line of argument, I will just say that I did not ban ANYONE during the battle over the military. NO ONE WAS BANNED. Tracy was suspended and that was it.

People thought I should have banned Tracy faster than I did and that I shouldn't have banned spiderleaf. They were wrong then and they are still wrong now if they can't see that I had trolls on my hands that were feeding the Tracy thing as hard as the could.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 10:13:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 3)

OK, so now I begin to see what happened. I don't like what I see, but at least its a bit clearer.

While Tracy was in the midst of having a breakdown here and doing her best to take anyone she could down with her (after endless attempts by almost all concerned to try to reach out and help her, only to feel her backhand across the face), you are convinced that it was spider who was out to wreck your blog.

I don't see it that way at all!! But your drawing of some kind of line in the sand of those who don't see it that way, and therefore continued to maintain an online relationship with spider as somehow being unwitting buffons or being played the fool is where the real grade-school attitude comes in to play.

I am really incensed about how you just spoke about Scribe. I'll let it sit for a while and see where I go with it because, you see, people are multi-dimensional. They are NOT good/bad, we all make mistakes and, at the same time commit acts of brilliance. That is true of you - just as it is of the rest of us.

Doesn't information itself have a liberal bias? Steven Colbert

by NLinStPaul on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 10:49:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

NL-

Scribe has been a major contributor, for a year, to a site that routinely lampoons, ridicules, and smears me.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:05:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 2)

Yeah, there's alot of people there that are mad at you. In case you missed it, many of us went there (including me) during all this mess as a way to take some of our anger someplace besides here - where things were reeling out of control as it was. I found it a useful place for awhile. And if you hadn't continued to link what was going on there, most here probably never would have seen it. I think its this "conspiracy" thing that is getting in your way now. I'm going to be real blunt here and tell you how I see it:

Tracy was having a breakdown and needed to get offline.
Spider is hot-headed and goes over the line at times. Interestingly enough, she usually gets it eventually and fesses up - the very thing that led to this diary in the first place.
Catnip - now there's a peice of work for you. The relationship between you and her is way to complicated for me to understand. I know a lot of it has gone on offline so I'm not even going to try to go there. Except to say that I have a hunch you're being played like a violin by her.

Doesn't information itself have a liberal bias? Steven Colbert

by NLinStPaul on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:26:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 1)

You are not listening. We will just have to agree to disagree. Once upon a time, that was how we handled things around here.

Latino Político | "We are condemned to kill time, thus we die bit by bit." - Octavio Paz

by Man Eegee (man.eegee at gmail.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 12:09:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 5)

The last time you posted about this, I made a snarky comment about gasoline being thrown on the fire and my distaste with it.

Fast-forward to this post and I've probably re-written a comment about ten different times now but I'm so infuriated with the way it has played out that I don't even know how to articulate myself.

One thing I will say regarding this, though

I'm not going to get into a lot more detail here, because my only interest is in all the people that were part of this controversy knowing that I was right at the time and that I told the truth throughout the whole sad episode.

Are you saying that you were right to let your temper govern the way you managed the site? 'Cuz I think that was the main issue that I had with the way you dealt with that whole situation. There was clear bias during the whole thing, which you've admitted in this thread and others, and don't underestimate the chilling effect it had on comments and active membership.

That's why Teach and others tried to formulate some type of procedure for bannings - because you were quick with the trigger when people pissed you off (I'm thinking of alohaleezy here, and also hrh).

I dunno, BooMan, you are never ever going to get clear lines of right and wrong with this whole thing, no matter how many posts show up about it.

My two cents.

Latino Político | "We are condemned to kill time, thus we die bit by bit." - Octavio Paz

by Man Eegee (man.eegee at gmail.com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 11:00:38 PM EST

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

I don't know Manny. I did lose my temper. I think it is kind of obvious why I did.

One thing that still angers me is that I do not see people expressing outrage about the revelation that this was all a lie from the beginning.

You pulled the picture down, which I very much appreciated. Other people did not show any respect whatsoever. Again, I don't want to rehash it.

A lot of people defended these people and criticized me for banning a few of them. Well...look. People posted stuff about me that they knew to be false, they defended someone they knew to be lying, they refused to retract assertions that were proven to be erroneous. You're right to be furious about all of that. But then it almost seems like your fury is reserved for me. And if I lost my temper, I had a good reason to lose my temper.

I had people sending me private email acknowledging they had lied in a public comment and then refusing to say so publicly. I had people post comments in orange accusing me of being a liar that apologized for being wrong in private emails, but refused to correct the record.

And now I finally have the two main people admitting that everything I was saying in that first thread where I lost my temper was true.

So, yes, I lost my temper. I don't think I had a clear bias at all. I had one friend who was acting badly and clearly was having problems in their personal life and I had another person that was picking at my personal life and lying to my face about it.

I love you Manny, but if you see differential treatment there as bias then I can't meet that standard.

by BooMan on Wed Jun 27th, 2007 at 12:41:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 4)

I'm furious at the situation, not with any particular person. That's probably the biggest point I would like to make as someone who was sort of on the edge of this whole thing.

As for me reserving my fury for you, remember that I stuck around here - that should speak volumes. I registered my objections with you (and others) privately when all of this went down because I didn't see a point in keeping it going in public as it involved personal storylines. But at this point, I felt like enough was enough.

This post is the one that has stuck with me the most. To me, that was your line in the sand, and it was also the rejection of all the efforts by the others who had a 'community-meeting' to try and develop a way to handle bannings and disagreements around here in a fair way. One that wasn't governed by emotions. You may not have intended it that way (a line in the sand), but that's how I took it. Regarding MTs postings, I won't even bother because she isn't here to defend herself.

I'm sure you got tons of email during that time, so I'm obviously only commenting on what was posted online. As for the other stuff, well, that's between you and the other posters.

Sigh.... you know that I respect what you do here, these are just my observations as someone who reads just about everything posted.

Latino Político | "We are condemned to kill time, thus we die bit by bit." - Octavio Paz

by Man Eegee (man.eegee at gmail.com) on Wed Jun 27th, 2007 at 01:05:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 2)

I really don't have much more to add to NL's and Manee's eloquent posts, but I did want to say that I have now read this diary. Since I backed Spiderleaf repeatedly, I felt it was important that I acknowledge the diary. I did not know Spiderleaf was lying and it really sucks that she did. Nevertheless, I still think the whole situation left a really bad taste in my mouth and I'm sorry it is being dredged up again. For me, it was never about whether she lied or not, but about BooMan's overreaction to what should have been a relatively minor thing.

Feh...I hope we can all put this sordid event to rest for good now.

There's a sense that people in America aren't getting the truth. - George W. Bush (Gee, ya think?)

by Kamakhya (onyx at earthlink dot net) on Wed Jun 27th, 2007 at 06:24:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

P.S. (4.00 / 3)

If it makes you feel any better BooMan, I'm sorry. I did really believe Spiderleaf and I acted accordingly. I still feel bad about what happened, but I acknowledge that part of my angst was due to what I then considered an unfair accusation. It may have been correct, but the end result was not worth it.

There's a sense that people in America aren't getting the truth. - George W. Bush (Gee, ya think?)

by Kamakhya (onyx at earthlink dot net) on Wed Jun 27th, 2007 at 11:05:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: P.S. (4.00 / 3)

It's does make me feel better.

And messing with my private life is not a minor matter, no matter whether the person doing it is telling the truth or lying.

But when it involves casting aspersions on my honesty, and on the honesty of people in my personal life, in a public forum, and it is based totally on lies, then it is a major matter. I'm not anonymous. I can't let stuff like that stand.

I hear people saying that it wasn't about that them for them, but about Tracy or about the community, or about overreacting. I hear it. And to some extent I understand it. But it's wrong. What happened here was an attack on me and on this community. It has been a sustained attack.

I'm very happy to know that you got to see the truth in this episode. That's all I really want at this point.

by BooMan on Wed Jun 27th, 2007 at 11:13:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

On Honor (4.00 / 3)

I completely understand. To me honor is important, which is why I posted my P.S. I wanted you to know that I was sorry and that I feel a bit used.

But, ... oh damn, I don't want to dredge up the whole sorry episode.

Let's suffice it to say, I understood where you were coming from and it is one of the biggest reasons I stayed here, even though I didn't agree with your actions. It was a matter of honor for you and I can understand that.

I'm still happy you were together and as far as I can tell you still are. That is way cool. And yeah, people may make shit of that, but screw them. I say, stop hiding it and talk about it openly. Why give them food for fodder? What you got is a good thing and if ends, that will still not change what it was.

There's a sense that people in America aren't getting the truth. - George W. Bush (Gee, ya think?)

by Kamakhya (onyx at earthlink dot net) on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 12:25:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Honor (none / 0)

you know what? A LOT of people should feel used. A LOT of people. And I really appreciate even one person acknowledging that. I do.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 01:09:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: P.S. (4.00 / 3)

I'm very happy to know that you got to see the truth in this episode. That's all I really want at this point.

First of all, there is no THE TRUTH of this episode. There were a lot of people involved and we all have our own TRUTH. That's the thing about human relationships that's different from the world of facts and figures. Some of us have been trying to get you to see truths that you seem to want to ignore. It might be futile, but I'd like to give it one more try. Here's the sequence as I remember it:

Military disagreements - the differences of opinions about this were not the issue. The fact that Tracy was having a breakdown right in front of all of us should have been the point. She was self-destructing and taking down anyone she could with her. I think you should have stepped in at that point to ask Tracy to take a break from the site and at least temporarily taken away her posting priviledges again if she didn't agree to that. While that might have been difficult, it would have been the most compassionate thing for both she and this community. Sure some folks may have complained - but that's what it means to be a leader.
Finally, Tracy tells a member of this community to "fuck off and die." If that wasn't the definition of being a prick - the rule is meaningless. But you did nothing about it.
Spider posts a picture of you with your girlfriend and poses her (your girlfriend's) relationship with Tracy as the reason Tracy hasn't been banned. If, at this point, you had explained yourself about your position with Tracy and taken whatever action you felt was necessary with Spider, I (and most others I think) would have supported you. But instead you got into a long and meaningless agrugment with spider about WHEN she first knew about your relationship and who she told about it. You completely missed the whole point that would have garnered support for your position. So now, you have "a confession" from spider that she "knew" about your relationship earlier than she admitted in that thread. Hollow victory when you had abandonded the one moral point you had on your side about her using your relationship in the first place.
While you were so busy arguing with spider about when she knew about your relationship (a perfectly meaningless agrument to most of us, remember) instead of laying out ground rules about how we should be treating each other and taking what would have been the high moral position about not using anyone's relationship as a tool against them, longtime and significant members of this community were either leaving in droves or trying to organize to try to find ways to help you stop this kind of thing from happening again. While their ideas might not have been realistic, none of that would have been necessary if you had been willing to listen to the underlying concerns. But your quest for "honor" in terms of being "right" about the dates of spider's knowledge blinded you to these concerns.

That's my "truth" of the situation.

Doesn't information itself have a liberal bias? Steven Colbert

by NLinStPaul on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 09:11:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: P.S. (none / 0)

this entire understanding is wrong.

Yet it is an accurate account of what many people thought at the time.

First of all, big enormous error number one.

I did not 'do nothing' about Tracy's comment to supersoling that he 'fuck off in die'. I issued her a last chance warning. I said, literally, 'You do that again and you're banned. No more second chances.' That's what I did. That's the history.

Then I persuaded her to quit and banned her to make sure she wasn't tempted to comment in the future.

That's what I did. Okay? Can I get an acknowledgment of that fact from you?

Second, the REASON I was asking spiderleaf about when she knew is that I already had identified her as a troll that was working with catnip. I was hardly surprised to see her show up and start howling for Tracy's head. She'd been poking for weaknesses in the site rules for a long time.

My first question was simple: "When did you get the idea that I'm dating someone and why do you think it is appropriate to talk about my personal life? You know I hated it when catnip did it."

I was making a straightforward accusation that she well understood, but others did not. And by not understanding it and not believing me, many people thought it was some kind of sideshow. It wasn't. It was a troll attack.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:20:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: P.S. (none / 0)

My view is no more wrong than yours is. I hear that you had decided that spider and catnip were trolls. That helps me understand your positions - even if I don't agree with you.

You might disagree with me that while you were busy tracing down spider and catnip, Tracy was taking a wrecking ball to this community. But, at least hear the point. And, as I said in a previous comment - you seemed to have missed a lot of that conflict. And, if so, I can understand it not seeming to be as relevant.

Doesn't information itself have a liberal bias? Steven Colbert

by NLinStPaul on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:54:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: P.S. (none / 0)

I don't disagree with you that Tracy was taking a wrecking ball to the community. She knows that. Believe me. She takes responsibility for it. She knows what it cost me to try to treat her with some dignity at a difficult time.

by BooMan on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:57:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

My confession (4.00 / 7)

Once upon a time I was an angry young man. And an angry middle aged man. Things could set me off so easily. I even engaged in a road rage incident where I got out of my car and yelled at someone who was tailgating me because I was angry that they would risk the life of my daughter by driving over the speed limit and practically hitting my bumper when I had to stop suddenly.

I too believed I was in the right. And I was. The other driver was clearly being reckless. She had endangered the life of one of the most precious gifts I have ever received in my life, my daughter. My anger was righteous, trust me. I was so in the right.

And I was so in the wrong. When I came back to my car after screaming at the now terrified (and probably angry) young woman driver behind me, I found my daughter crying. She didn't understand why her father had gotten so angry, only that his behavior scared her. To this day she reminds me of this episode, to my shame.

That day I resolved not to let my anger control me ever again. It's been a pledge I have failed at more than a few times, but gradually over time I've learned that when other people do things that I disagree with, even when they accuse me with lies and personal attacks, its better not to respond in anger. Adding my anger to the mix can only compound the problem, and makes me appear as bad as the people who offended me in the first place.

I'm not saying my anger issues are the equivalent of yours BooMan, or that you and CG didn't have a right to be offended by the lies being told about you. But I've learned that anger in response, whatever triggers it, whatever justification for it, usually only makes matters worse. At least it has for me.

Yesterday we saw the right way to confront a bully and a liar when Elizabeth Edwards asked firmly, but politely, and without anger as her focus, for Ann Coulter to stop saying hateful things about her husband, and her family. She chose to respond, not with anger, but with courtesy and reason. She spoke out of sorrow and out of hope, and she even showed respect to her antagonist, though God Knows Coulter doesn't deserve her respect. Ann Coulter had no response to her humanity but to come back with more hate speech and ad hominem attacks. And who do you think came off the better in that confrontation?

I know you have good reason to be upset, having had your personal life made a topic of internet debate, and called false and vile names by those who do not like your politics or the way you run this site or your friendship with Tracy, or whatever. But ask yourself this question, please? Isn't there a better way to respond to these issues than out of anger, no matter how well justified? What benefit to carry a grudge at this point.

You're a good man, BooMan. I know that from personal experience. I hope you learn the lesson I did about anger being a destructive emotion before you do something as foolish as I once did. I frightened my then 5 year old daughter out of her wits, terrified another person, and made a public jackass of myself. I left my daughter with an indelible memory of how ugly her father could be when he let anger get the better of him. Even righteous anger.

It's nice to be vindicated. It's even better to let go of anger at those who do us wrong. At least, it's made my life a lot better to not be so angry all the time.

Paz

Obama is a Patriot

by Steven D on Wed Jun 27th, 2007 at 10:32:10 AM EST

Re: My confession (none / 1)

Very good point about anger, Steven.

I think people are reading more anger into this post than there really is. Yesterday, 2 people got into an argument with each other on another blog, and decided to use our relationship to settle the score between themselves...and then one of them emailed BooMan to alert him to their discussion. It's not as though he was actively seeking out the vindication, which seems to be how many people may have read this.

I'm weary of this whole thing. Many people behaved badly on all sides, many people were hurt by the whole series of episodes, and I think we all can agree on that. Respectfully, I also think it's difficult for anyone who hasn't had the unique experience of having their personal life become a topic of discussion (or weapon for use when you're losing arguments) in the blogosphere to say how they would respond if it were their own lives on display.

Just my (admittedly biased) $0.02.

by CabinGirl on Wed Jun 27th, 2007 at 11:04:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My confession (none / 1)

Fair enough.

Obama is a Patriot

by Steven D on Wed Jun 27th, 2007 at 11:44:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Just to clarify (4.00 / 2)

That second paragraph was really meant as a general statement, not as a specific rebuttal to your comment. (Sorry, I realized it may have been read that way after I hit post; ah, the joys of written communication...)

by CabinGirl on Wed Jun 27th, 2007 at 11:52:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

one of the 7? (none / 0)

This is only in reply to your comment, as I do not know how BooMan would describe his own emotional state as relates to the following, as this is more about parenting than anything else.

It sounds like you might see your righteous anger in regards to the car wreck as an example of Wrath. Definitely a soul-killer, otherwise known by Christians as Deadly Sins.

This is a HUGE deal, and learning to identify it within yourself and work to reduce its hold on you may be one of the best examples you can give to your daughter, as she grows up to face a world that exhibits far too much Wrath. She may learn from your example, saving her much grief. We are all blessed, when we can learn from the challenges that others have survived, rather than having to go through all the same hardships ourselves.

Just had to comment because your story reminded me of a much smaller incident that my Dad still recalls, where he freaked me out as a small child and still remains mindful about that. Absolutely wonderful dad-trait, the mindfulness and care that can be shown by all-too-human dads, as they struggle to provide us with good examples.

peace

by martini on Wed Jul 11th, 2007 at 06:28:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My take (4.00 / 4)

as sort of an "old timer" ? ....

I was just really sick of everyone whining....everyone. Seriously, it was like junior high school and aren't we all a little wiser by now along with our gray hairs and extensive credit histories? People were snotty. People were self righteous. And just like politics or sports sides were chosen and stuck to and argued ad nauseum.

I drastically cut down my time here as a result of all the fighting...not because of one side or the other...just because, you know, if I wanted to witness hair pulling and spitting I'd just have to visit one of my kids schools.

"Don't waste your time on the clowns, watch the real show"

by Second Nature on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 09:27:04 AM EST

Re: My take (4.00 / 4)

I dunno, SN. I'm not so sure this one is one really just another common hair-pulling spitting contest like we see all over the blogosphere. I think if that's all it was, it would have faded away long ago.
NEED to reclaim sense of genuine connection with others: to reconnect connect on more than superficial head levels.

Maybe it's a reflection how desperately we need to relearn how to trust and be trustworthy, all at the same time: to relearn how to see beyond the borders of "self", to the larger common good of all concerned?

Maybe that step simply cannot be skipped in our fervent desire to build effective political coalitions, and maybe this kind of interpersonal chaos that erupts among even very solid good people, is a classroom in which we can learn together, if only we stay with it long enough and work hard enough at it?

I don't know the answers to any of these questions. I only know enough to ask them.

ONward!

by scribe (scribe40@comcast.net) on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 10:54:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: typ0 (none / 0)

The third sentence should read: Maybe this is more of a reflection of how desperately we need...etc

ONward!

by scribe (scribe40@comcast.net) on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 10:56:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (4.00 / 5)

I had no desire to participate in this "re-hash." I still don't care to.

What I am always surprised by, regardless of who it involves and what the subject in question might be, is that so many have no ability to walk away from situations that neither benefit nor resolve things for them.

I finally learned that if I don't visit places and people that stir up anger or "righteous indignation" in me, then my life is a lot better in the scheme of things.

Those angers and rages that we hold onto and justify, regardless of how "right" we perceive ourselves to be are killers. They damage our hearts, our spirits/souls and our health. In the end, they will kill, literally, our physical bodies. I haven't yet run into any one of those situations that were worth me dying over.

I don't think any of us makes it through very much of our lives without being attacked for one reason or another or no particular reason. I know. The attacks and personal "injustices" I have experienced as a gay woman coming up in the 50's, 60's and 70's (and beyond) have often been vicious and unrelenting. The attacks from both members and management leveled at me during 25 years as a Union leader were often horrendous.

In order to survive and have a life I had to learn to let go of other peoples crap. In order to hold onto my ideals and sense of honor, I had to learn to let go of other peoples crap. What I found out is that other peoples crap has nothing to do with me. I know who I am and what I am about.

I learned a lot more than that in the process.

Letting go of hurtful and "untruthful" remembrances, letting go of all things that kept me from moving forward and enhancing my own sense of self has brought me to a much better, happier place than I ever expected. Not to mention thriving good health.

I do not expect that any will benefit from what I learned, but I feel better having planted the seed.

Hugs
Shirl

don't miss ~ Matters of Spirit and Expanded Views

by shirlstars (shirlstarsw@aol.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2007 at 12:19:03 PM EST

Re: A Confession (none / 1)

Glad that's over...I didn't like being called a liar throughout that whole episode either.

by CabinGirl on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 02:50:05 PM EST

A philosopher (none / 1)

As the late 20th century philosopher Rodney King once asked, "Can we all just get along?"

Well, Watson, we seem to have fallen upon evil days. Sherlock Holmes

by Carnacki (Carnacki AT hauntedvampire DOT com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 03:14:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A philosopher (none / 0)

Wise man, that Rodney King. ;)

So how are all the Carnackis enjoying their summer so far? The CBs are off fossil hunting (CBtY) and beaching it (CBtE) today.

by CabinGirl on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 03:26:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A philosopher (none / 1)

They've been having a great time, chasing fireflies, swimming and toasting marshmellows. This week Ms. Carnacki and the girls are at a camp in Virginia so I'm soloing at home.

Well, Watson, we seem to have fallen upon evil days. Sherlock Holmes

by Carnacki (Carnacki AT hauntedvampire DOT com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 03:32:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Confession (none / 0)

Just want to preserve this because it will probably be erased shortly.

Martin has a post up about spider's confession.
In defense of catnip, she pointedly never denied that spiderleaf had told her about my relationship, but merely insisted I had no way of knowing for sure.
It's about fucking time this episode ended and yes, spider, shit on me and I no longer have loyalty to you. That's how the world works.
All of these months - a year now - that this has gone on and look at all of the undeserved shit I've taken because of this because I was protecting my source who decided that it was just fine to start stabbing me in the back - for what? Because she was mad that her posting of a private e-mail was ruled a faux pas by the site admins here. It's time for you to get over that and move on, spider. Being continually angry about it is not going to change anything.
I had forgotten about it when I was talking to Martin on BooTrib, but I did. I certainly didn't think I was the only one as you had indicated others had, but I did.
You didn't remember? Are you Alberto Gonzales now? When had I "indicated others had"? That's bullshit. I couldn't care less - and still don't - about who he was dating. The only thing that puzzled me was why Tracy was being protected by Martin when she had had so many messy meltdowns. When I found out they were friends, I understood - as Martin has admitted as well that his friendship had a bearing on his tolerance for her behaviour.
And, as I told Martin repeatedly: when I wished them all well, I meant it because I knew he had gone through a divorce (no secret there - he made that public) so I considered his dating to be a step forward. I had no idea they were all friends until you told me, spider. And then look what happened. I was accused of lying and on and on it went from there. Flipping meta hysteria.
Finally, this is over for me. What a bloody circus.
catnip | Homepage | 06.26.07 - 6:10 pm | #
Gravatar catnip, I don't want your loyalty.
I didn't have issues with your take on my email, I have (and had) issues with your behaviour. Simple enough for you to understand?
And hon, you proved me right by threatening me with "outing" to get me to shut up here. If you'd like I can post your email to me which says that loud and clear. That my dear is a right wing tactic and you showed your true colours.
Proud of yourself? Sure you are. You live for drama and strife. Wouldn't be a good day for you if you didn't have it.
Anyway, I'm audi, this whole exchange has gotten real old real fast.
Glad to hear you've made peace with martin. Perhaps he can give you your frontpage status back. Or have you already asked and he turned you down?
What a sad joke you have become.
spiderleaf | 06.26.07 - 7:32 pm | #
Gravatar Oooo...there's that scary word "outing" which doesn't even apply here but, what the heck, might as throw out all the ammo you can to try to cover your butt, right?
And btw, telling someone you're not going to protect their lying ass anymore is not a "right-wing tactic" - as obsessed as you seem to be with turning into me into some sort of conservative. It's called being sick and tired of your bullshit and hypocrisy which is a "human" - not liberal or conservative - feeling.
Keep spinning though. It seems to make you happy.
catnip | Homepage | 06.26.07 - 7:45 pm | #
Gravatar And who was it that created a year's worth of drama here, spider? It sure wasn't me.
catnip | Homepage | 06.26.07 - 7:47 pm | #
Gravatar Bullshit catnip. You were trying to get me to shut up. That is stifling dissent. We weren't discussing BM or CG today, we were discussing your behaviour and this site. You decided to play the only card you had to get me to go away. But it didn't work. I'm still hear and still calling you on your bullshit.
This my dear is what you said today:
I am not above breaking my promise to you that I wouldn't reveal that you
told me about Martin's relationship with CG. I have absolutely nothing to
lose by doing that. You, on the other hand do. And I am this close to
doing just that. Just keep pushing it.
Just keep pushing it? Yup, go away or I spill. Whatever, you're such a child.
And I only told you that info because you were being unfairly attacked. You used it as a weapon against BooMan in that email. That's your MO, it just took a lot of us a while to figure it out.
And you were the one who made the promise to me when I took my name off the masthead, I didn't ask for it. In fact, your exact words were:
I want you to know that no matter what ever happens between us, I will never
reveal our secret to Martin, so don't ever worry about that.
Notice the operative word "our". Nice revisionist history though.
And yes, I'm posting these emails as you have lost all expectations of privacy after threatening to post our private correspondence to get me to do your bidding.
spiderleaf | 06.26.07 - 8:05 pm | #

by BooMan on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 08:23:59 PM EST

A Confession | 51 comments (51 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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