Booman Tribune

Leaving Iraq Won't Cause "Them to Follow Us Home"

by clammyc
Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:18:10 PM EST

I’ll even add a “by and large” or a “materially” for those who think that the title is a bit too strongly worded.

But it is time that this is absolute ridiculous reason for dumping billions more in money (haphazardly, I might add), neglecting those who DID attack the US on 9/11 (and its interests outside the US before that), neglecting our infrastructure, healthcare, education and costing hundreds of thousands of lives both here through such neglect and abroad as the disastrous civil war in Iraq continues to be on autopilot as no bold leader has the guts to stand up and utter the words (or similar words) in my title.

“If we leave now, things will get worse and they will follow us back here”.

I thought this was discredited long ago. But, it has reared its ugly head in full force as we anticipate the complete whitewash of a report issued by General Petraeus. Or more accurately, it will have his name slapped on it, although if he were to be honest, then nothing he says will actually be reflected in the report itself.

The Democratic Presidential candidates all dance around a withdrawal timetable or even a plan. As discussed in yesterday’s debate, and as so aptly noted in the Washington Post article, titled, Democratic Rivals Caution Against Swift Iraq Withdrawal, they miss a chance to really look at the larger picture. While there was good discussion about the differing opinions on the consequences of various plans, we still don’t get any real smackdown of the one line that is still sticking in much of the public’s mind and is being used as a hammer by republicans and talking meatsticks to keep the United States bogged down in a worsening situation just to save their political hides.

But admitting the truth is the first thing that needs to be done before we can even consider the “how” and “when” of leaving Iraq. And very few are doing so. Obama was right when he said that there are only bad options and worse options. Yet, we still don’t hear anyone calling pre-emptive “BULLSHIT!” on the farce of the “September report”. Obama is also correct in talking about the real danger that lies in Pakistan. Yet, chest thumping towards Pakistan isn’t going to do much either in the absence of some cold hard truth telling.

However, some of what Obama is saying needs to be said, and needs to be part of the truth telling. An article on Politico titled GOP recruits unafraid to sound hawkish might as well be titled “GOP recruits unafraid to sound like chest thumping short sighted idiots”. And it extends to Democrats such as Majority Whip Rep. Clyburn as well:

Former GOP Rep. Jim Ryun, running in a Republican-leaning Kansas district, also warned about the consequences of a withdrawal from Iraq. He said voters in the district, which includes Fort Riley and Fort Leavenworth, largely want to give the surge a chance.

"When you leave early in a situation that's not stabilized, you leave behind a worse situation," said Ryun. "We don't want the conflict to follow us home."

The report by Petraeus is shaping up to be a key moment for both parties in how candidates calibrate their rhetoric.

House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) told The Washington Post last week that a positive assessment from Petraeus might keep conservative Blue Dog Democrats, many facing tough reelection bids, from endorsing a timetable for withdrawal.

And so it goes. Frankly, it is not only dishonest, but also is lazy. If you take this line of thought, you never have to make a tough choice. Just sound bites, platitudes and keep that head buried in the sand. The troops are already there, the situation is already a disaster beyond anyone’s wildest thoughts of how bad it could have gotten and taking the same lazy way out won’t raise anyone’s profile either.

If it was just there, it would be bad enough. However, we have talk radio host and OpEd columnist in the Dallas Morning News Mark Davis with this gem:

The current U.S. surge in Iraq may succeed enough to create new reserves of patience in a country once again tempted to give up. But even if it does not, we would do well to remember that the people we are fighting today want to follow us home.
At least there is this bit of honesty from The Indianapolis Star, which lays out just how this whole “lather, rinse, repeat” strategy of lying and Friedman Units has worked:
He (Bush) has tried one general after another. They all tell Mr. Bush what he wants to hear. If we don't beat them in Iraq, they'll follow us home. Also, we can win in Iraq if we don't suffer a lack of will and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Gen. David Petraeus is now in charge and he stays right on message: While there is a high price for staying in Iraq, including mounting American casualties, the price for leaving could be higher.

---snip---

We are in the midst of a public relations surge by the Pentagon, timed to coincide with Gen. Petraeus' Sept. 15 report, and designed to persuade The Decider to extend this war once again. Just before the 2004 election, Petraeus published an op-ed article in The Washington Post in which he said, "Iraqi leaders are stepping forward, leading their country and their security forces courageously." He misled America then and I predict he'll do the same in September. But, then, Mr. Bush is so ready to be misled.

The problem here is that as things have gotten markedly worse in Iraq over the past few months, there has been a substantial decline in the US media reporting of what is going on. So the failures and disasters get buried, while the “we can’t leave or else we will be hit here” and “wait for the Petraeus report because I hear good things are going to be in the report” are all that is being said, reported and heard.

That is total crap, as we all know.

Leaving Iraq will be ugly. But the situation there was already really, truly ugly. And it is worse with each passing day. Our options have long been either “bad” or “worse”. But the “badness” of the bad options and the “worseness” of the worse options are getting, well, “badder” and “worser” as the can keeps getting kicked down the road.

Of course, much of this is qualified with a “yes, things have been bad, and there were poor decisions and a lack of planning, but……” In reality, there STILL is no plan – not even this escalation was a real plan, especially since there were no benchmarks met, the Iraqi government is a farce and the fighting is spreading to areas all over the country now. Besides, dishonesty is bad enough when lives are not being lost as a result.

And what will make things worse? What will increase the threat of being hit here in the US again? Well, many things that are getting buried as well:

  • Giving $20 Billion to the Saudis, even though most suicide bombers in Iraq are Saudis. Not to mention that they are likely Sunnis, who were the insurgents until Bush realized that Iran was Shiite and therefore more of an enemy than those who had been blowing up our troops.
  • Ignoring the bubbling disaster in Pakistan, where Al Qaeda (and presumably bin Laden if he is still alive) as well as the Taliban have reconstituted to launch attacks in Afghanistan;
  • Thinking it is a good idea to throw billions of dollars at the lawless region of Pakistan where Al Qaeda and the Taliban are – to try and win the “hearts and minds” just like in Iraq;
  • Having a presidential candidate declare that the US should bomb Mecca and Median “just to send a message” and not have him be censured or removed from Congress for making such threats;
  • Arming the insurgents in Iraq, or at least those who “were” insurgents if they promise not to use their weapons on US troops, then LOSING nearly 200,000 of the weapons; and
  • Declaring the entire de-facto Iranian military as a “terrorist organization” – just because.
You know, things like actually taunting extremists in a “Bring em on” kind of chickenhawk chest thumping way.

But until this line of thinking is demolished once and for all, it will continue to give America and its so-called leaders a pass to further its dishonest lack of debate and therefore keep us mired in Iraq – all while ignoring the real issues around the world and pretending that up is down and black is white.

We expect more, our troops expect more, and frankly, we can’t afford to have one more day of “if we leave they will follow us home”.

It’s a dishonest and cowardly line. And a deadly one.



Display:
by clammyc (clam227atyahoo) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:18:45 PM EST
Doonesbury @ Slate

reality's still in exile.

lTMF'sA



the revolution will not be televised...

by dada on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:30:21 PM EST
This is old ground for Trudeau. One of my favorite characters in the early days of Doonesbury was a Vietnamese (Viet Cong, I think, rather than NVA) guy named Phred the Terrorist. Yeah, that was his name. "Aint' nobody around here hasn't heard about Phred the Terrorist." He and BD fell in together for a while in an episode that ended with BD getting a Purple Heart for cutting his finger on a beer can.

Poor Phred, after the war he ended up teaching in a re-education camp. I kinda felt sorry for the guy.

I for one welcome our new Twitter overlords. @Omir55

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:34:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
too funny.  He had a Sunday cartoon a few months ago that was similar to this and was spot on.

My Three Cents - 50% more opinion for free
by clammyc (clam227atyahoo) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:18:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This has always sounded really, really suspect to me. If the terrorists wanted to attack us, they'd have done so by now while the army was over there instead of over here guarding the place. (Don't talk to me about the FBI busts of alleged terror cells. From what I've heard the people they arrested wouldn't be able to tie their shoes with an instruction manual and were put up to big talk by the FBI snitches who "infiltrated" them.)

I may be wrong about this, and it's possible the FBI has thwarted dozens of potential terrorist attacks -- real ones, not the sham ones they gin up to make us feel like they're doing something -- but somehow I just don't think so. Of course if there are real terrorists out there wandering around, I do hope the FBI is keeping close tabs on them. And yes, that includes abortion clinic bombers and other domestic terrorists.

I for one welcome our new Twitter overlords. @Omir55

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:29:40 PM EST
Great Point, Omir.  And that is so telling.  That is the most moronic statement ever. We are fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them here.

Isn't there one reporter with enough stones to point that out to Moron-in-Cheif.

Hey Doofus, with the army and all our money over there.  Should be a helluva lot easier to attack here, ya think.

It is the culture of stupidity and somehow we have to break it.

Lies are truth.

Patriotism and religion, like whiskey, is best used in moderation. Mark Twain

by skeeters2525 on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:35:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I may be wrong about this, and it's possible the FBI has thwarted dozens of potential terrorist attacks

No.  If they had, we'd have heard about at least one of them.  The administration would be crowing about it 'til the cows came home - about how we're not safe, and "evildoers" are everywhere, and so on - ad infinitum.

But this misses the point of the "fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here" frame.  The point is, if we're kicking around people in the mid-East, the terrorists will flock like flies to rotting meat to where we're kicking people around.  Our soldiers are bait for terrorists - kind of like a big blue bug zapper light, but with more dying soldiers.

It's a particularly cowardly and pernicious framing too - it depends on average citizens thinking of soldiers as a disposable resource to be used up in Pyrrhic battles indefinitely to keep the "homeland" safe from scary boogeymen.

by nonynony on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:03:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a little different from the way I've always thought of it, as though there were some big ol' Maginot line in the sand in Iraq that we had to entrench ourselves into to hold the line against the onslaught of terrorists headed in our general direction.

Which of course is baloney. Terrorism isn't done by waves of soldiers overrunning your position at a weak point. It's done two, three, twenty determined people at a time.

I for one welcome our new Twitter overlords. @Omir55

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 07:04:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The argument about them "following us home" is based on a logical fallacy -- that the reason they are fighting us in Iraq is related to this nebulous Global Conspiracy To Destroy Western Christian Civilization As We Know It...  Instead of, you know, fighting over the post-Saddam distribution of political and economic power in Iraq, in which we are basically caught in the middle, trying to prop up our "side" (those who are most receptive to a long-term US presence to protect "our interests"), but in reality getting hammered on all sides because we're over there.  

The great majority of the insurgents fighting in Iraq are Iraqis, whose primary interest is who controls what in Iraq. Ideally, our role would have been to provide some stability while these factions worked their balance of power out peacefully. But that's not what happened, and now the situation is pretty much beyond our ability to influence or control.

They have no reason to follow us home. They'll be too busy trying to secure their own piece of the pie where it matters to them, in Iraq. (Al Qaeda is a separate issue, but they're also a very SMALL percentage of what's over there anyway.)

I'm not worried about the Iraqi factions attacking us here. I'm not even that worried about Al Qaeda. I'm more concerned about homegrown types who murder Amish school kids, or go on shooting rampages on college campuses, or bomb abortion clinics, or terrorize immigrant workers or Muslims wearing traditional clothing, or gay teens walking hand in hand.

Terrorism is a tactic, not a massive organized global conspiracy. Maybe if we keep saying that over and over and over, the message will eventually get through.

Keith Olbermann speaks for me.

by JanetT in MD on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 11:57:05 PM EST


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