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The Clintons' Racial Strategy

by BooMan
Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 10:41:25 AM EST

Carl Hulse and Patrick Healy's article in the New York Times, Clintons Move to Tamp Down Criticism From Blacks About Recent Comments, accomplishes precisely what the Clintons needed to happen. It's actually even better than they had any right to expect. First, it makes absolutely no mention of comments from Fmr. Sen. Bob Kerrey, New Hampshire chairman Bill Shaheen, supporter Andrew Cuomo, or anonymous Clinton advisers. It doesn't touch on Bill Clinton's patronizing use of the word 'kid' to describe Obama. All it addresses are two comments: Hillary's comments about MLK Jr., and Bill's comment about a fairy tale. And, it's true...Hillary's MLK comment was so stupid and self-defeating that it probably was nothing more than sloppiness. And Bill's comment about a Fairy Tale was specifically about whether or not Barack Obama has been consistently against the war in Iraq, and not meant to be dismissive of his chances or his message. So, the article fails to address the (possible) use of surrogates to spread racial and anti-Muslim stereotypes about Obama. But the article does not fail to mention the two most harmful names for Obama's campaign...the names that instantly turn-off white voters and remind them why they don't like black complaints about racism.

In a call on Friday to Al Sharpton’s nationally syndicated talk radio show, Mr. Clinton said that his “fairy tale” comment on Monday about Senator Barack Obama’s position on the Iraq war was being misconstrued, and that he was talking only about the war, not about Mr. Obama’s overarching message or his drive to be the first black president.

Going hat in hand to Al Sharpton? Not that ambulance chaser again. Won't he ever stop seeing racism under every pillow and behind every curtain?

Others continued to take issue with the remarks, including Representative Jesse L. Jackson Jr., Democrat of Illinois and an Obama supporter.
“Following Barack Obama’s victory in Iowa and historic voter turnout in New Hampshire,” Mr. Jackson said in a statement, “the cynics unfortunately have stepped up their efforts to decry his uplifting message of hope and fundamental change.”

Do people even know that there is a Jesse Jackson Jr.? The prevailing sense is that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have once again made a mountain out of a mole hill and injected race into the debate when race wasn't even the issue.

Never mind that Billy Shaheen suggested that Obama was a cocaine dealer, or that an anonymous Clinton adviser was quoted in the Guardian as saying, "If you have a social need, you're with Hillary. If you want Obama to be your imaginary hip black friend and you're young and you have no social needs, then he's cool." Never mind the rest of it.

Here is how it works. The Clintons push some racially sensitive buttons and elicit an emotional response. Then they go ~~apologize~~ explain themselves on the Al Sharpton radio show. The New York Times only covers the most innocuous of their comments. The result is that they remind voters that Barack Obama is not the post-racial uniter, but a typical black candidate, supported by serial whiners Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Nothing could undermine Obama's campaign more among the white vote, and the Clintons know it. And there is nothing, nothing, that Obama can do about it. If he complains, he only makes it worse. If he doesn't complain, these subtle allegations that he is a lazy, drug-dealing Muslim do damage all on their own.

Congratulations to the Clintons. You really are good at this campaigning thing. I'm so impressed.

The Clintons' Racial Strategy | 58 comments (58 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

It's official (4.00 / 3)

I now hate the Clintons, whereas I used to only dislike their triangulatory politics.

Between this and watching women whose main issue is ending the war say they'll vote for Hillary over the "Iron My Shirts" thing (to which I can only say "what? did your forget her positions on the issues?"), I'm done.

"Little people are very stuff-intensive."

by CabinGirl on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:20:35 AM EST

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (4.00 / 2)

Of course an Obama candidacy in the general election would be expected to come up against racist ploys and maneuvers, code language, states' rights, pictures with white women in the south, threats against voters in black neighborhoods, photo ID requirements, etc. But you know what's really twisted about watching this Clinton scheme in action is just how frickin' smooth it is--makes the standard GOP Southern Strategy seem crude and clunky by comparison.

I guess if Obama finds a way to come out on top here, it'll be a vaccination of sorts against similar dirty tricks later. But I too don't see a move he can make either way that doesn't make matters worse for him.

And supposing the Clinton campaign gets out of this brouhaha without a nick, how long do you think it'll be before the next round?

The Wages of Sin is about $5.15 an Hour

by hz on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:24:26 AM EST

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

Nailed it boo. I think the most emphasis should be given to the fact that Bill and Hill couldn't do it without the media's complicity.

Maybe they figure that as the "first Black president," Clinton can say some of those things about "his own people."

by liberaljournal on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 10:55:09 AM EST

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

The idea that Bill Clinton was the first Black president is obviously a wrong-headed notion, since everyone cognizant of Reagan-Republican politics since 1980 was racist at its core. When Clinton devised a political strategy to steal the Republican agenda, no one thought it would include touches of Republican racism, but that is just what the meaning of, "changing welfare as we know it" meant. I won't go through all of the association that "welfare" had at the time, or just what the meaning of Gingrich's references to "personal responsibility" meant, in a bill which Clinton signed on to, that also had "state's rights" implications, if you recall how the bill was to be implemented.

No. Clinton played the sax and hobnobbed on the golf course with well known Blacks, but he was no civil rights advocate, only an exploiter of the times.

Now we have Bill possibly taking up further Republican tricks, namely, dirty tricks, by helping to stimulate racism again.

I know this is a harsh condemnation of the Clintons, but their methods may be subtle, but they are frankly despicable.

by shergald on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:36:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

I wouldn't recommend you post this at the great orange satan. The clintonites over there will swarm out of the woodwork to call you a purity troll and your diary a pos that should be removed.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

by Steven D on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 10:57:59 AM EST

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (4.00 / 4)

I've lost my patience for white people telling black people that the racism they hear is imaginary.

by BooMan on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:06:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

The sock puppets at dKos know it's racism as well as any black voter, Boo. They just don't care, because these pieces of garbage get off on this disgusting style of campaigning.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:13:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

Maybe there is some of that, but the reality is that Daily Kos is a big diverse community of mostly white people, and that they are just as vulnerable to this kind of dog whistle politics as the public at large.

How many of those people are saying, in effect, there is no racism here...this is just a saying that people use all the time...don't mean nothing...the comments aren't connected to the campaign....they could have meant something innocent...etc.?

That's how it works. Black people hear it, white people only hear irrational and unsubstantiated complaints, and they grow resentful, and they say 'it's people like you that make me not want to vote for Obama.'

Mission accomplished.

by BooMan on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:17:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

Yes, agreed. There's a lot of rationalization going on with it, and some of the issue is, I think, captured by people from different regions not recognizing what's going on as well as others.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:28:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

I don't think it is regional as much as it is suburban vs. urban. Urban whites hear this stuff loud and clear because it is how politics works within the Democratic Party inside large cities. In Philadelphia, for example, the Democrat can expect to get 80% of the vote, so the battle is in the primaries. And it comes down to the white candidate vs. the non-white (usually black) candidate.

But in the suburbs, people lack direct experience with racist politics within the Democratic Party. I guess southerners are more familiar with this feature, as blacks make up such a huge percentage of the party. I'm reminded of Ron Sparks decision not to run for senate in Alabama because Vivian Figures, a black woman from Mobile, was in the race. He figured the Democrats couldn't survive a white/black primary and come out of it with any unity, even if he and Figures both ran positive non-racial campaigns. He's probably right about that. But that seems foreign in the northern suburbs.

by BooMan on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:37:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

There's a suburban vs urban dynamic, but I submit that, reading dKos, it seemed a lot of people, especially away from the South, were very quick to shoot down "shuck and jive" as not being racist, thinking it was a common statement to make, on par with "misleading," with no racial element. I agree that differences in experience and overall perception will lead many to be annoyed when the shouts of "dog whistle" come, but it was not at all shocking to me to find folks from (say) the West not immediately getting it.

It really concerns me that her campaign may well wind up driving black Democrats out of the party -- Democrats who we need in order to compete in many swing states.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:55:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (4.00 / 2)

Living in the South, I'm hearing it loud and clear. How anyone could hear "shuck and jive" and not recognize the clear racism in the phrase is beyond me. What's next? An impassioned defense of "steppin' and fetchin'" as a racially-neutral expression?

Between my disgust at the Clintons' behavior and the fading prospect of my own candidate (Edwards), I'm starting to give serious thought to voting for Obama come Super Tuesday. We'll never heal the racial divide in this country if this crap isn't shoved right back down the throat of its perpetrators.

---Cthulhu for President: Why vote for the lesser evil?

by eodell (eodell at naqada dot org) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 12:16:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

That's what has bothered me the entire time. I'm from the South, too, and I've heard this stuff more times than I can even remember. The fact that others don't hear it, or refuse to admit they're hearing it, -- and, in either case, defend it -- is truly stunning.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 12:23:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

That's how it works. Black people hear it, white people only hear irrational and unsubstantiated complaints, and they grow resentful, and they say 'it's people like you that make me not want to vote for Obama.'
Mission accomplished.

That's the really frustrating bit. We all know he can't respond, because he then becomes Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Meanwhile, Hillary can shamelessly play the gender card all day long.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:30:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

it isn't playing in Atlanta. And I may add, elsewhere.

The Clinton's clarification of the "fairy tale" comment equates with

"It all depends on what Is, is"

Translation: Bill Clinton reinforces he's a damn good liar.

Billary have shown their true voice and we shall remember.

We shall overcome. We shall not wait or step aside. Uppity, huh? ya ain't seen nothing yet.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 12:28:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

I actually side with Bill on the fairy tale thing.

Well, sort of. I think he is taking one comment by Obama from 2004 and using it slightly out of context. But that is totally different from suggesting that the comment had a racial or dismissive component. I don't think it is out of line for Bill Clinton to say that Obama wasn't as anti-war as he is suggesting, and that it's a fairy tale to say that he and Hillary have hugely different track records on the war.

by BooMan on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 12:52:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

I get really annoyed that Obama is being attacked for that comment in 2004. He was very clearly giving cover to folks like Kerry, Edwards, and Clinton who voted for the war by saying that they had a hard choice to make. This is what they do when someone helps out the team and acknowledges that life is complicated.

Obama was right, they were wrong. In 2004, Obama helped our presidential candidate earn the benefit of the doubt with anti-war American voters and now the Clintons attack him for it.

My job is not to represent Washington to you, but to represent you to Washington- Obama
Philly for Obama

by Luam (LuamDK at gmail.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 01:16:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

Bingo!

The Underground Railroad

by Oscar In Louisville on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 01:26:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

How do you think the official reaction of the Obama campaign (which appears to be "no comment - let people make up their own mind") plays? Is there a feeling of what his response to all of this should ultimately be before the SC election?

by maryb2004 on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 01:25:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

Not that I would call her a guiding light in the political debate, but:

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/FULL_POST_Roseanne_Barr_launches_tirade_0111.html

Roseanne Barr issued the following tirade against Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) -- misspelled "Barak" -- and Oprah Winfrey, who she dubs a "closeted Republican." Obama, Barr posited, "backs right wing corporate racist anti worker bullshit."

I've decided that all the Republican need to win in November is to pass out razor blades and guns to the Dems. If they don't shoot each other they'll shoot themselves in the foot. If they don't slit each others' throats they'll cut their own wrists.

by Bob In Pacifica on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:20:44 AM EST

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

The events of the last week have been quite a disappointing turn. Definately a victory for the forces of petty resentment and insinuating demagoguery.

Unfortunatelly, there are several rhetorical limitations that come with Obama's approach. This is just one of them. But I am curious to see what Obama does next.

Has anyone else noticed the relative lack ofcamaigning going on by Obama? I can't imagine they're takinga vacation, so I wonder what kinds of plans they have/are making. After all, I can't imagine that they really started this campaign without having some kind of ideas about how to recaim the media narrative should something like this happen.

The more control, the more that requires control. This is the road to chaos. -Frank Herbert, The Dosadi Experiment

by chimneyswift on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:34:22 AM EST

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

Has anyone else noticed the relative lack ofcamaigning going on by Obama?

I have noticed this as well and it's not clear to me whether he's actually not campaigning or if the media's just avoiding him like they do Edwards. Virtually ALL coverage I've seen lately is uncritical coverage about the once-again "inevitable" Hillary and McCain, ironically the two candidates that the media tried to push on us in the first place. Like they think they were right all along. But I have noticed endless analysis of "Why Obama lost - was it the Bradley Effect, or something else?"

Has the media already written Obama off?

by RandyH on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 12:15:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

He's campaigning in Nevada and South Carolina...overflow crowds beyond the venues' capacity.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 01:08:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

Is anyone blogging these? I'd like to get a sense for what they're doing...

The more control, the more that requires control. This is the road to chaos. -Frank Herbert, The Dosadi Experiment

by chimneyswift on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 04:27:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

RandyH, Today on the BBC World Service (Friday, about 2 P.M. Central European Time), in a program surveying the candidates, a woman journalist (editor?) at a New Hampshire newspaper (don't ask me the name) said exactly the same thing: the outcome of the N.H. primary shows that the pundits had it right after all. How's that for in your face professional self promotion over the electorate! Her sympathies clearly lie with Mrs. Clinton. Would everyone please stop calling her by her first name.

by Quentin on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 02:50:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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Certainly - right after her campaign stops calling her by her first name...

The Underground Railroad

by Oscar In Louisville on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 03:46:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

They are pros at this, aren't they?

One other effect - after Iowa there was speculation that more African Americans would come out to vote for Obama because they would see him as a viable candidate who wouldn't be defeated because of race.

Some people speculate that all of this will hurt the Clintons among black voters. But for the Clintons, that's ok as long as those voters stay home and don't come out to vote for Obama.

by maryb2004 on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:45:01 AM EST

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

I know there is a Jesse Jackson Jr. And i wish he was running for President.

If you want things to get better, be prepared to deal with change.

by Kahli on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:53:29 AM EST

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

I just have to say this diary and the comments ruins the site for me once again. I just can't understand what you are doing with this Booman, a little fomenting.
It will be impossible for a Hillary supporter to post here and that is very sad as you are creating a hostile enviromnent for what may be the nominee. What do you propose to do if that happens, encourage everyone to vote Republican. I don't see that you would have any other choice.
This is very disappointing..

Click here to step into the Village Blue2

by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:56:42 AM EST

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (4.00 / 3)

No it isn't impossible for a Hillary supporter to post here. Arthur Gilroy does all the time. And we have had more than our share of diaries attacking Obama about his cosying up to anti-gay activists, and criticizing Edwards and everyone else in the campaign. We also ran posts about the raw sexism of the media in its reporting about Senator Clinton.

Frankly, none of the candidates are perfect. But that doesn't mean we should let them off the hook when they campaign at the level of the lowest common denominator, whether that is the Clinton campaign, the Obama campaign or the Edwards campaign. When campaigns focus on all this negative crap they alienate future voters in the general election.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

by Steven D on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 12:10:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

When a diary is made up of innuendos, suppositions and conclusions based on personal biases, then it has nothing to do with 'letting them off the hook'or not. I have seen a growing and steady stream of invective on this site directed against the Clintons, people falling over each other to make the worst comments possible about them.
Comments speaking of "now hating", "slime", and so on in response to this diary, what do you call that. Perhaps "hate baiting".
Not saying any candidates are perfect, but attributing all of these things derived from personal speculations to something as important as the possible nominee and next president of the US is not helpful, nor fair.
Talk about triangulation.
I urge Booman to reconsider the direction he is going with this and I urge the site memebers to reconsider the feeling they have re. the Clintons...
This is the kind of thing highschoolers do, not thinking adults.
A final note here, Karl Rove is no doubt laughing his ass off. He didn't even need to perpetrate this one, or did he.

Click here to step into the Village Blue2

by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 12:27:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

I'm sorry we disagree about the Clintons, Diane. I think you should vote for whoever best suits your positions, without feeling like anyone who has a different opinion here will hold it against you. Speaking for myself, I know I like you whoever you vote for. :)

And there have been diaries supporting Hillary here (I've even recommended several because I think it's important for people to consider all sides of the debate), and attacking Obama here, and probably both for Edwards (my first choice, btw) as well. Thankfully, there is less of the personal attacking of/ganging up on supporters of any of them than we have seen elsewhere.

"Little people are very stuff-intensive."

by CabinGirl on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 12:54:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (4.00 / 3)

To me it is not about disagreeing about candidates, I am not sure who I would vote for, I am talking about fairness and decency here. To come up with scenarios that combine to denegrate someone is not about who the best candidate is, it is speculation with possibly misleading conclusions based on personal biases.

Where is the benefit of the doubt, the answer I hear to that is "no possibility for that, she is condemed: signed, sealed, delivered and that is final." That's the prevelent attitude I see on this site.

Click here to step into the Village Blue2

by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 01:23:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

I think the Clintons should show some decency and start disavowing anyone who makes these subtle racial slurs. Particularly given the level of support they've had from the black community in the past.

A lot of these discussions the past few days about dog-whistle politics of racism and the presidential race remind me of the male reaction to the pie wars a few summers ago...they had no idea what it was like to be a female poster at the big orange, and we were all "just too sensitive".

I think Hillary has a longer history and record of behavior than the other two candidates for me to base an opinion on (that 'experience' thing cuts both ways); the makeup of her largest donor list, coupled with her defense of the lobbyists in DC last summer at YearlyKos, also concerns me.

Finally, I guess I'd be equally upset if surrogates for the other candidates were making subtle remarks about her gender - interesting that they don't do that, isn't it? I definitely didn't care for all that media carrying on about her actually showing some emotion last week. It was ridiculous.

And of course, our primary isn't until late April, so the rest of the country will most likely have already made my decision for me, making this all a moot point. :)

"Little people are very stuff-intensive."

by CabinGirl on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 02:15:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

the Clintons should show some decency and start disavowing anyone

It seems to me that according to the diary written by Booman, disavowing would be just he signal to him that they had indeed planned this so they could disavow it. So which way could they go to prove or disprove something they may or may not have done, by supporters who may or may not have been racists or made race directed remarks .

What would your response be Cabin Girl, when after reading this diary you said "It's official, I now hate her." This diary led you to that point which is my whole point,i.e. based on what, someone's suppositions. So, say they did make a point of disavowing this, would you even believe they were sincere or that is was just another part of their grand diabolical plan...

Or have they already disavowed it, but it wasn't good enough for you and others. Question is would it ever be good enough based on your personal biases.

Click here to step into the Village Blue2

by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 03:17:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

Here's how they disavow it if their intentions are indeed honorable - issue a public statement, saying, "Anyone who in any way is associated with my campaign that in any way alludes to Senator Obama's race, creed or color will be immediately removed from my campaign. We are better than that and America deserves better than that. There will be no further discussion of this matter, only swift action if the need should arise, and it better not arise."

That would be impressive - an inverse Sista Soulja moment that would actually win her some support - but I'd bet my soul that nothing even remotely close to this will come to pass. After all, I said it about a month ago that this race-baiting strategy is where Hillary's campaign would inevitably resort to once she found herself behind in the polls, and here we are. But let's see what they do - they may yet find their way out of the abyss, but I believe that they will remain stuck in a deep dark pit of ignorance...

The Underground Railroad

by Oscar In Louisville on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 03:56:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

I think Oscar in Louisville apeaks to my point very well in his response; I wish the Clintons would heed his advice. Maybe they will, and if that's the case, I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong if/when it happens.

I'd just like to point out that it wasn't this diary, but rather the pattern of actions of the Clintons/Clinton campaign that led to this diary that pushed me over the edge today.

And I think this is where I'm going to politely bow out of the discussion and go put my Knit-a-palooza diary together.

"Little people are very stuff-intensive."

by CabinGirl on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 05:14:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

Hey Diane, I don't think you should feel uncomfortable here as a supporter of Hillary. fwiw, I don't hate Hillary. I'm not going to vote for her, but if she wins I won't be devastated like some.

But I disagree with you a bit on the "thinking adult" part. Part of the purpose of political blogging is to talk about the issues. But another purpose is to talk about the political strategies that a campaign may or may not be using.

I for one find these types of discussions interesting. Political races have dynamics based on strategies that aren't always apparent to the public eye. In fact, that depend on not being apparent to the public eye. To be able to discuss them is one reason that I read political blogs and one reason I came back to this blog. And much of the discussion is going to be guesswork based on past experience. And some of it may be biased based on the person's own feeling toward a campaign.

Boo put out his theory on a political strategy that he thinks the Clintons are using. Now he can defend it. I think you can disagree without fear that Boo will jump all over you or do anything but discuss it with you. You can disagree with his reasoning and even have your own theory that his reasoning is flawed because of his personal biases and ask him to address that. No one would hold that against you. And who knows, maybe you'll make him re-think part of his work?

by maryb2004 on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 01:16:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (4.00 / 2)

Thanks Mary, I take your point and it's a good one. And in essense isn't that what I am doing, challenging his conclusions. But still I don't think I would ever feel up to posting a pro Hillary diary.
However I do think we bloggers get way too caught up in analyzing things, finding hidden meanings and twists. Perhaps we should concentrate that more as to the other side.

In any case good to connect with you again Mary.

Click here to step into the Village Blue2

by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 01:30:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (4.00 / 3)

Well, Diane, it's a difficult situation. It was not my decision to engage in this type of politics. I suppose we can try to put ourselves in the shoes of decent Republicans that might well have argued in 2000 that criticisms of the Bush campaign for attacking John McCain and his wife and his family would be a problem if Bush went on to win the nomination. After all, they must have thought an Al Gore presidency would be the end of the world.

Honestly, Diane, Hillary Clinton supporters are welcome here and I encourage them to make the case for their candidate. I know that a lot of people will argue against Hillary, but we do maintain a respectful climate for debate. I mean, compare this forum to the others, where Obama, Edwards, and Clinton advocates have been bashing each other for months.

I obviously oppose Hillary's campaign for ideological reasons, irrespective of their campaign tactics, but that doesn't mean that I want to run off people that share her ideology, or who support her for other reasons.

In my opinion, I'm reporting on a concerted strategy here, and one that deserves to be rebuked in strong terms. But if someone thinks I'm wrong, they should feel free to say so, and no one should be disrespectful to them, provided they are making a good faith argument.

by BooMan on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 12:19:58 PM EST
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Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

Please see my comment above and I reiterate, it's your supposition and conclusion, not a fact and no matter what you say I cannot see it in any other way.

It's one thing to report on occurances, but you are drawing conclusions that cannot but be based on your own personal biases and in my opinion unfairly so.
About posting any positive Hillary diaries here, I would not want to subject myself to the comments that I know would follow, and I don't think many but perhaps AG would want to either.

Click here to step into the Village Blue2

by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 12:35:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

I can understand the reluctance to post a diary when you can anticipate that the majority of the response will be negative or skeptical, but, again, it's not my fault that the Clintons and their surrogates are saying these things. You're right that I am drawing conclusions from disputable facts and that I have a bias against the Clintons. I did not vote for Clinton in 1996 because I thought he would be impeached for campaign finance violations (the irony) and I worked for Bill Bradley's campaign because I was so vehemently opposed to Al Gore and DLC politics (I'm one of those people that knew all about Joe Lieberman before others realized he was a dangerous troll). I can't really imagine voting for a Clinton, although that doesn't mean that I would come out as an advocate for third party voting. I can't imagine that either. Regardless, you're right that my interpretation of these events is uncharitable. I encourage you to read what black bloggers are saying: Jack and Jill and the field negro are good places to start.

If I'm wrong, then they're wrong. And that is always a possibility. But if we are not wrong then maybe it is time for some supporters of the Clintons to make a reassessment. Maybe not.

In any case, debate is open and encouraged.

by BooMan on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 12:44:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

I have read all those links Booman, and I watch cable endlessly , read all the major papers, listen to talk radio, read Dk, here and other sites,etc. so I am not uninformed. "The field negro" has a bit of a problem him/her self I would say, calling other blacks, house or field negros. Is this not perpretrating the racial divide. Is this what we look to for answers.

I also was very informed about the Clintons when they were in office as I was very interested in them. I watched with horror all the things that were said and done to them, and I was relieved when they faded from the picture a little so as not to have to hear it.Of course it never did go away did it, and no matter how nothing was ever proven, it still did not go away.
The innuendos stuck, and they are stuck now on a lot of people who should have known better.
However now we are in this new situation and it's all starting up again.. Good lord to ever think the clintons would be called racists, not in my wildest nightmare did I ever think such a thing and it's just a little bit suspicious to me that this is happening now. Does this remind you or anyone of McCain vs. Bush, S. Carolina, 2000. Think about it.
I think in many ways it was the inverse psychology, that made him look bad for not being racist that drove some republicans and others against him, as in cozy up to the blacks. Now that the questions is Clintons vs. black candidate, what better way to discredit him, or any opposition other than to call racist.
BTW, someone made reference to playing golf with blacks to look good, please note that Clinton's golf partner was a lifelong friend from childhood I believe.
Another point, as smart as they are, and as coniving as you seem to believe, don't you think they would avoid any such implication, if they indeed were racist. Oh I know the boomerang effect you have supposed.

Talking about rethinking....If you want to take another look at Clintons floor speech re. Iraq war, please follow this link and refresh yourself courtesy of DK.
link

Click here to step into the Village Blue2

by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 01:13:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

I don't think the Clintons are racist but I do think they understand the role of racism in American politics. And it is definitely in their interest to inject race into this campaign in order to get people to think of Obama as a black candidate. It's also to their benefit to stir up the traditional black spokesmen that white America so loves to hate and have them tie themselves to Obama.

It's cynicism I accuse them of, not racism. They are exploiting other people's racism because they are in dire jeopardy of losing this thing, and they are not going down without a fight.

by BooMan on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 01:57:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

Well then it cynacism that I accuse you of....and further that you know how the Clinton's, either one of them think. Another suppostion, "it's in their benefit to stir up" really Booman, you think so, yet look, what has it stirred up but more hatred of them...oh yeah they are at once dumb and smart, can't think anything through to a logical conclusion unless it's nefarious.

They are exploiting other people's racism because they are in dire jeopardy of losing this thing, and they are not going down without a fight.

another great conclusion stated as a fact i.e., "they are", not I think, it's possible, maybe, but "they are". You have not made a logical conclusion in my estimate, unless it's "I think therefore it is". Put this in a court of law, how far would your case go. "They are" really?

Note to someone who suggested I go read another site to see what they say, puleeeeese, I need to read what more negative people are saying? Please refer to my list of reading, is that not sufficient.

Click here to step into the Village Blue2

by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 02:16:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

Well, you're right. I am cynical. You and everyone else can make a fair judgment about whether I am justified in my cynicism. I don't just apply my cynicism to the Clintons. Remember when I said that Abu Zarqawi was largely a myth? That was pretty tin foil, right? And then:

THE US military is conducting a propaganda campaign to magnify the role of the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq, according to internal military documents and officers familiar with the program.
The effort has raised his profile in a way that some military intelligence officials believe may have overstated his importance and helped the Bush Administration tie the war to the organisation responsible for the September 11 terrorist attacks.
The documents say that the US campaign aims to turn Iraqis against Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian, by playing on their perceived dislike of foreigners. US authorities claim some success with the effort, noting that some tribal Iraqi insurgents have attacked Zarqawi loyalists.
For the past two years US military leaders have been using Iraqi media and other outlets in Baghdad to publicise Zarqawi's role in the insurgency. The documents explicitly list the "US home audience" as a target of a broader propaganda campaign.
Some senior intelligence officers believe Zarqawi's role might have been overemphasised by the propaganda campaign, which has included leaflets, radio and television broadcasts, internet postings and at least one leak to an American journalist.
Although Zarqawi and other foreign insurgents in Iraq have conducted deadly bombing attacks, they remain "a very small part of the actual numbers", Colonel Derek Harvey, who served as a military intelligence officer in Iraq, told an army meeting in Kansas last year.
In a transcript of the meeting, Colonel Harvey said, "Our own focus on al-Zarqawi has enlarged his caricature, if you will - made him more important than he really is, in some ways."
There has been a running argument among specialists in Iraq about how much significance to assign to Zarqawi, who spent seven years in prison in Jordan for attempting to overthrow the government there. After his release he spent time in Pakistan and Afghanistan before moving his base of operations to Iraq. He has been sentenced to death in his absence for planning the assassination of a US diplomat, Lawrence Foley, in Jordan in 2002. US authorities have said he is responsible for dozens of deaths in Iraq and have placed a $US25 million ($34 million) bounty on him.
The military's propaganda program has largely been aimed at Iraqis, but seems to have spilled over into the US media. One "selective leak" about Zarqawi was made to Dexter Filkins, a New York Times reporter based in Baghdad. Filkins's resulting article, about a letter supposedly written by Zarqawi and boasting of suicide attacks in Iraq, ran on the Times front page in February, 2004.

So, my cynicism sometimes turns out to be fully justified, Diane. In this case, we're unlikely to ever get the kind of confirmation I got with Zarqawi, but my conjecture is based on a broad base of experience, and cannot be written off as just bias. Although, I confess, I am biased, and you and everyone else should take that into account.

by BooMan on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 02:28:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

Just want to point out that in courts of law jurors are asked to make inferences to determine state of mind. And closing arguments are often full of declarative statements.

What you are saying is that Boo didn't make his case to you. Fair enough.

State of mind is incredibly hard to prove since, as you point out, we can't read minds. But because you can't prove it doesn't mean the state of mind isn't there. It also doesn't mean the that the end result didn't occur with or without the alleged state of mind.

In this case, imo, all of these incidents lead to a political climate that is beneficial to the Clinton campaign whether or not the Clintons planned them or are even pleased by them. Why? Because in my experience, when the specter of racism enters a campaign the white candidate usually benefits. So, to me, whether the Clintons are completely clean as to intent or not, they are going to reap the ultimate benefit unless Obama figures out a way to change the narrative.

by maryb2004 on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 02:38:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

Very interesting comments Maryb, thank you....
Yes you are right Booman didn't make his case to me and I am presenting the opposing view I suppose, let the jury decide, eh. I really wish he was more objective and less subjective, more positive and less negative.

I think you are wrong about race benefiting the white candidate, perhaps that would be true in any other case but this one, I feel that due to the rabid anti Hillary factions and feelings that this is just the sort of thing to lose her votes in the Dem party, however she may get some from the Reps. So maybe we will have a switch over election, or maybe time for an independent.

Click here to step into the Village Blue2

by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 02:57:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

not just black bloggers. Add Too Sense.

Diane should be encouraged to read the comments of soccer moms, baby boomers and under 30s in the Seattle Post- Intelligencer.

BTW,

My question of the month:

Why is Bill Clinton running for a 3rd term?

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 01:46:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

The slime is simply terrible. They have no shame.

It makes me sympathize with points the Rs have been making for years regarding the couple's dishonest and scheming nature.

by shaej on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 12:11:06 PM EST

F-Bombs Away (none / 0)

One last time, fuck Hillary Clinton and the horse she rode in on.

The Underground Railroad

by Oscar In Louisville on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 01:23:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

I see we are at it again. Eating our own when there is a whole slew of Racist Republicans out there running for President. We Democrats are really something. We would rather tear apart our own than focus on the true enemies of democracy. I don't suppose it will ever change.

Everywhere I go on Political blogs I see that we are not satisfied to support whichever candidate we might prefer. It is much greater sport to attack and tear down the other Democratic candidates.

Frankly I wouldn't give you a nickel for any of them, but I will support the nominee. I don't have a horse in this race so all of this is just silly and childish to me.

There are so many true, vile and unrelenting racists around I wonder at how quickly and easily we suppose and suggest that other's are racist when the evidence, if any, is slim at best.

The irrational hatred of Hillary and Bill is just too funny to even comment on. But the media loves to play it and like a flock of sheep we all seem to want to jump on the band wagon or follow the leader over the cliff.

I know hatred spurs a lot of emotion so that we can feel like we are still "alive," and it also helps us cover up our own feelings of poor self image. . .if we hate someone then we are BETTER than them. It's worked for several millennium, and by god how else are we going to feel good about ourselves if we don't hate others?

Someday, and I wish I would live to see it but that's doubtful, we may figure out that the need to put others down in order to raise ourselves up is at the root of our wars, and endless dissatisfaction with most things in the world.

Carry on, as I know you will.

Shirl

don't miss ~ Matters of Spirit and Expanded Views

by shirlstars (shirlstarsw@aol.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 02:02:43 PM EST

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 1)

shirl, I love you, but I gotta ask, 'what is the most innocent explanation, here?'

I'll try to answer that. The most innocent explanation is that a bunch of people that happen to support the Clinton campaign are very insensitive jerks. In fact, there are enough of them that it appears to be more than a trend, but a strategy. Why is her campaign attracting these people? Why do 'Clinton advisers' feel free to be quoted as such when making racially charged comments?

As to your point, what are we supposed to do about this? Are we supposed to take it lying down, or should we make sure there is a very big penalty to pay for engaging in this type of behavior. Maybe, if the Clintons are truly innocent, it will spur them to do more than explain themselves to Al Sharpton. Maybe, just maybe, they'll send out a memo telling their surrogates to knock it off.

For me, the bottom line is that I will stand by and let this go on without comment in the interest of unity.

Someone wrote a diary last night at Daily Kos entitled, 'Obama supporters, please don't bash Hillary'. I asked quite simply, 'shouldn't this read 'Hillary supporters, please stop bashing Obama''?

And isn't that where the primary blame for this lies? Aren't the Kerreys and Cuomos and anonymous advisers the ones making racially insensitive remarks? Shouldn't they stop?

Sorry if it bothers you to see a liberal take on a likely nominee, but I can't stand by and let this go on without protest.

by BooMan on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 02:13:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

Love ya back, Boo. I understand the point you are wanting to make, I just don't understand what basis in fact there is to support your conjecture. It is a fact that the media has put this idea out there. That seems to be the only fact. So if one believes the media, then I suppose it is so. I just haven't found any reason in at least the past 8 years to believe the media about anything.

Just my opinion.

don't miss ~ Matters of Spirit and Expanded Views

by shirlstars (shirlstarsw@aol.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 02:36:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

Someone at Orange said it in a much better way than I am able. It is well worth the read:

In my opinion, the best hope for Dems and the country has long been to unite the blacks and whites (and Latinos) of moderate means. Knowing this, the GOP uses racially charges issues--affirmative action, welfare, etc--to peel away working class and middle class whites. Division between blacks and whites helps the GOP--it preserves the GOP--and now we see that very division emerging in the Democratic Primary, of all places. We're doing the Repulicans' work for them. To be more specific about my worries: If Clinton wins, blacks will be alienated and pissed off, thinking that racism won it for her. If Obama wins, it will be largely without the support of white working class voters, who will be ripe for the plucking by McCain.

Orange Place

Cheers and Hugs
Shirl

don't miss ~ Matters of Spirit and Expanded Views

by shirlstars (shirlstarsw@aol.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 02:49:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

Martin Luther King Jr. put it better:

The other day I was saying, I always try to do a little converting when I'm in jail. And when we were in jail in Birmingham the other day, the white wardens and all enjoyed coming around the cell to talk about the race problem. And they were showing us where we were so wrong demonstrating. And they were showing us where segregation was so right. And they were showing us where intermarriage was so wrong. So I would get to preaching, and we would get to talking--calmly, because they wanted to talk about it. And then we got down one day to the point--that was the second or third day--to talk about where they lived, and how much they were earning. And when those brothers told me what they were earning, I said, "Now, you know what? You ought to be marching with us. [laughter] You're just as poor as Negroes." And I said, "You are put in the position of supporting your oppressor, because through prejudice and blindness, you fail to see that the same forces that oppress Negroes in American society oppress poor white people. (Yes) And all you are living on is the satisfaction of your skin being white, and the drum major instinct of thinking that you are somebody big because you are white. And you're so poor you can't send your children to school. You ought to be out here marching with every one of us every time we have a march."
Now that's a fact. That the poor white has been put into this position, where through blindness and prejudice, (Make it plain) he is forced to support his oppressors. And the only thing he has going for him is the false feeling that he's superior because his skin is white--and can't hardly eat and make his ends meet week in and week out. (Amen)
And not only does this thing go into the racial struggle, it goes into the struggle between nations. And I would submit to you this morning that what is wrong in the world today is that the nations of the world are engaged in a bitter, colossal contest for supremacy. And if something doesn't happen to stop this trend, I'm sorely afraid that we won't be here to talk about Jesus Christ and about God and about brotherhood too many more years. (Yeah) If somebody doesn't bring an end to this suicidal thrust that we see in the world today, none of us are going to be around, because somebody's going to make the mistake through our senseless blunderings of dropping a nuclear bomb somewhere. And then another one is going to drop. And don't let anybody fool you, this can happen within a matter of seconds. (Amen) They have twenty-megaton bombs in Russia right now that can destroy a city as big as New York in three seconds, with everybody wiped away, and every building. And we can do the same thing to Russia and China.
But this is why we are drifting. And we are drifting there because nations are caught up with the drum major instinct. "I must be first." "I must be supreme." "Our nation must rule the world." (Preach it) And I am sad to say that the nation in which we live is the supreme culprit. And I'm going to continue to say it to America, because I love this country too much to see the drift that it has taken.

Of course, without LBJ King was just some schlub shoveling false hope...

The Underground Railroad

by Oscar In Louisville on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 03:42:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons' Racial Strategy (none / 0)

Some time back I had read that the Clinton campaign hired something like 4000 people to do nothing but comment on blogs, trying to steer readers to support her and bash people making critical statements about the Clintons.

For all I know, this may be a tactic employed by all of the campaigns. Who knows, but realize that you may find yourself getting into a conversation with one of these paid operatives, flaming and playing victim because you're attacking "their girl."

It's a rotten tactic by the campaign(s) and it's a just a job for the paid commenter. I have a feeling Steven encountered a bunch of them when he posted his piece critical of Clinton over at Kos.

by RandyH on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 03:21:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Deflect with Humor (none / 0)

I posted a diary about this at Big Orange. Perhaps it will be better received here:

The best thing for Obama to do would be political judo. Present a couple of the remarks frankly, so that people can see them for what they are. But instead of attacking their racism, turn them into jokes and turn them against those who made them. For example:

"A Clinton adviser was quoted as saying that young people supported me because I was their 'imaginary, hip, black friend'. Well, I have news for you, Senator: I am not imaginary."

(Changing this now, I would not have him address it directly to Hillary, as she did not make the remark. But I think this is the approach).

The remark speaks for itself, but the joke turns it into a compliment. After all, the Clinton adviser has just called Obama young, hip, and a friend to the voter. By contrast, is Clinton old, out-of-touch, and an enemy to the voters (don't say this, leave it implicit)? Here's another example:

(I don't want to overburden the comments section, so the rest can be read at this URL)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/12/24922/7667/774/435521

by bento on Sun Jan 13th, 2008 at 04:58:32 AM EST

The Clintons' Racial Strategy | 58 comments (58 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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