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The Clintons Point of No Return

by BooMan
Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 02:57:34 PM EST

One lesson I have learned over the last sixteen years is that Bill Clinton will always find new ways to disappoint, if not humiliate, his staunchest supporters. Today is no different.

In an interview Monday, President Clinton mounted a less-than-vigorous defense of comments a prominent supporter of Senator Clinton's presidential bid, Robert Johnson, made which many interpreted as a reference to Senator Obama's admission of drug use during his younger years.
The interviewer, Roland Martin of WVON-AM in Chicago, played Mr. Johnson's statement Sunday in which he praised the Clintons for having "been deeply and emotionally involved in black issues since Barack Obama was doing something in the neighborhood - and I won't say what he was doing, but he said it in the book…" Mr. Martin sounded incredulous about Mr. Johnson's subsequent denial, in a statement issued by the Clinton campaign, that he was referring to drug use by Mr. Obama. "When you listen to that tone and the inflection, he was not talking about community organizing. It seems to me very clear what he was implying," Mr. Martin said.
"Ironically, this is the first time I've heard it, what you just said," Mr. Clinton said. "I listened to it on the tape and I think we have to take him at his word."
Mr. Clinton then launched into a defense of his "fairy tale" comments from New Hampshire which had not been raised at that point.

If you are looking for an explanation for this, you might want to start by looking at Bob Johnson's political contributions. Notice that he gave $28,500 to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC) this year alone. That is in addition to maxing out with $4,600 for Hillary's campaign ($2,300 for the primary, $2,300 for the general). And he gave $1,000 to Mitt Romney and $250 to John McCain. He gave $1,000 to bankruptcy-bill loving Rep. Al Wynn, and tossed in some cash to Reps. Donald Payne (look into his record), Charlie Rangel, James Clyburn, and Melvin Watt.

Clearly, Mr. Johnson is not the kind of man that a Democratic politician will readily criticize. No, not even when he uses a shared stage to call Barack Obama a lazy-ass crackhead posing as a Dr. John Wade Prentice-like wannabee. But take a look at the real Bob Johnson and ask yourself...'why would any self-respecting Democrat want this man's endorsement in the first place?' What does it say about the Clinton campaign's priorities that they would even appear with this swine on stage, let alone revel in his endorsement, let alone sit by while he calls Barack Obama a shiftless ghetto negro from their podium?

Bill Clinton says we have to take him at his word that he was only talking about Barack's (presumably shameful) community activism on behalf of the poor. At what point do the Clintons pass your point of no return?

The Clintons Point of No Return | 33 comments (33 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (4.00 / 2)

At what point do the Clintons pass your point of no return?

A very long time ago. The most basic question was and is will we have a better future for our kids if "X" gets elected? In her case no. With or without her husband.

by rba (nearnight12@yahoo.com) on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 03:32:37 PM EST

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (none / 1)

A very long time ago? Do you mean when Bill promised the Reagan revolution Democrats and everyone else that he would "change welfare as we know it?"

Well since everyone knew that welfare was a code-word for lazy good-for-nothing Black promiscuous cheating young women on the dole, that did it for me. No one didn't immedidately think of Chicago welfare queens driving around in Cadillacs of Reagan's creation a deacde earlier. And it did not matter that local newsmen looked and looked but were never able to find even one of these so-called welfare queens.

It was racism at its subtle best from the man, or should I say the couple, and thus Hillary, who now proports to have done more for Blacks than any other candidate.

by shergald on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 07:23:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (4.00 / 2)

The Clintons have created the myth that somehow they played a historic role in supporting African-Americans in their struggle for civil rights. The reality is that when Bill Clinton was Governor of Arkansas back in the 1980's he played golf at a racially-segregated Country Club in Little Rock. At the same time Hillary as a member of Rose Law Firm was providing legal advice for Walmart. There is no evidence of any civil rights activity on the part of the Clintons during this period.

by eddeevy (eddeevy@cs.com) on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 03:53:08 PM EST

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (4.00 / 2)

Yeah, I've wondered where the hell that myth came from. I keep waiting for one of them to start talking about being attacked by dogs, water cannons, and rubber hoses. Their involvement in the civil rights struggle is every bit as fictitious as Mitt Romney's.

What they did do was "reinvent" welfare to Reagan-era specifications, with a consequent increase in homelessness and childhood malnutrition while sending as many US jobs overseas as possible.

---Cthulhu for President: Why vote for the lesser evil?

by eodell (eodell at naqada dot org) on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 04:07:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

At that time Bill Clinton was also running around (none / 0)

looking for, as his golfing bud, grey Dem eminence gris Vernon Jordan might say, "p---y." And singing "D-I-V-O-R-C-E" in hallways.

I kid you not. I saw this in a magazine before the shyt really hit the fan about Har-Monica. Can't remember which, unfortunately. But those two items have stayed in my mind.

Vernon Jordan oughta talk. He was shot in Fort Wayne, Indiana in the Seventies, and the word went around that he wasn't on Urban League business when it happened. He was meeting up with a white woman.

An untypical Negro

by blksista (gab1954@gmail.com) on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 04:18:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (4.00 / 2)

At what point do the Clintons pass your point of no return?

When a potential Bloomberg run became more palatable than a Clinton primary win. Seriously!

John McCain - Less Jobs More War

by ask on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 04:04:48 PM EST

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (4.00 / 3)

Thanks BooMan. I was just slammed on DKos for being a Naderite for saying pretty much the same thing. I am not a Naderite. I happily voted for Al Gore, and was one of those people who actually liked John Kerry. I was also one of those blind loyalists who covered my ears and said "Blah, blah blah, I can't hear you." when my friends critiqued Bill Clinton from the left. The Clintons support of the Bush foreign policy agenda forced me to take my hands off my ears and pay attention to what they really stand for (nothing).

My apologies to all the blind Clinton loyalists out there, but I'm moving on. I will not vote for any candidate who would send my kids to die in Iraq or Iran based on a calculus of political expediency simply because that candidate has a "D" after their names on the ballot. Some people would blindly vote for Lynne Cheney if she ran as a Dem. I am not one of those people.

by beltanevt on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 04:28:45 PM EST

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (none / 0)

Your post captures my sentiment exactly - I have been a life long Democratic activist. I told friends a couple of weeks ago that I would hold my nose and vote for Hillary if she got the nomination - it seemed certain until Iowa - After the NH distortion choice email by the Clintons (which is clear evidence of fraud) I cannot vote for Hillary. I so wanted to have a woman president but she and Bill have shown they are Republican lite (better positions of social issues - just as corrupt and elitist and Republicans on ethical issues)

by Moonwood on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 06:46:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (4.00 / 2)

Shiela Jackson Lee who iadmire was just on tweety and loses ALL credibility she had, by defending Bob Johnson, saying his comment was about Obama's drug use....WOW....The Clinton surrogates are willing to go over the cliff with them, This is simply amazing.......

by gaiilonfong on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 05:31:31 PM EST

I lie (4.00 / 3)

I tell people that I voted for Bill Clinton twice, but I didn't. I voted for him in '92. In '96, I decided he could suck my left tit. The Clinton's didn't bother me per se, because after 2000, they weren't an option. I looked at the sexist and unwarranted hatred of Hillary Clinton in the left blogosphere as something close to psychosis. I still don't get it.

But now, there's an election year and a Clinton will be on my ballot on Feb. 5th. If you had posted this around Thanksgiving, I probably would have some snarky comment for you. You're either voting for Clinton or not, but "point of no return" would be dramatic.

Well, my point hit right after the double header of Kerrey's comments and Shaheen's comments. I didn't even blog on them because I was stunned that those comments had been said. From a Clinton? WTF? Right?

Then they kept coming...well, if the Clinton's want to play the race-baiting, Southern Strategy game, let them. I'm a live-and-let-live sort. If people want to defend them, go for it.

Sen. Obama was never an option for me. On a good day he was an extremely distant, I mean two planets away distant, 2nd. The only thing the Clinton campaign has done is push me to the Obama camp and ensure that I work harder to defeat Clinton than any of the nutjob-y Republicans.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 05:51:33 PM EST

Re: I lie (none / 0)

What's struck me is the degree to which some of our "leaders" (elected or otherwise) have prostituted themselves for the Clintons. There's just no other word for it. There are people I had a tremendous amount of respect for, but it's all gone. Damn, does Billary own their self-respect, too? My God, they just look ridiculous.

I finally saw some clips of Bob Johnson yesterday, and I'm sorry, but he looked like a complete handkerchief head. It was just painful, and I hope someone clues him in to how big a fool he looked.

But he's long had his dignity for sale. Maybe he and Andy Young can start a new fraternity called Damned Fool Omega...as in last place.

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 06:04:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

One thing that kills me (none / 0)

Is that the BET blog has a section called Pamela on Politics and it's decidedly pro-Obama. I even decried the lack of attention the other candidates were getting.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 06:28:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Speaking of BETs politics blog (none / 0)

There was a post the other day titled, "Clinton's plans to go negative? Keep in mind that until that post Pamela on Politics barely noted the Clinton smears.

I have a comment "awaiting moderation" for 2 days now. It's the 8th post on the page. There have been 75 posts since mine and mine is still not posted:

Going negative? The Clinton's have been on a full bore smear campaign. I highlighted it all in my own blog post Is it a "dog whistle" when White people do it? and And They Keep Coming.
Even in my post, Women, Race and Clinton I wrote:

But let's take that experience at face value and ignore the fact that she's basically asking us to elect her to a 3rd term...When someone like Clinton wants something from me, my first (selfish) question is, "What have you done for me lately?" With Clinton (Bill or Hillary), it's "What have you done for me period?" Because every core supporter they could have had (Blacks and Gays specifically), they threw under the bus long ago to strengthen their insider ties. At least Bill could make you feel good while he screwed you over. His mantra was always, "Later...your time will come later." Well, it's "later" and Sen. Clinton has most certainly picked up that refrain. What exactly are we waiting for? More backroom deals? More compromises that still leave many Americans with unequal rights?
Too many people like to live in a fantasy world where Clinton was the great White Hope for black people. I truly believe the Clinton's live in that world. I know our self and media-appointed black "leadership" believe it. The Clinton's may have helped them, but they most certainly did not extend that grace to everyone in this country.

Meanwhile the post right after mine that was approved:

To trina blacks are more racist than white people are i lived around blacks and i know how they are.from experience no bigot here you people dont like to hear the truth.blacks carry and have more std's and aids than any other race and thats statistics.black women having kids just so they can get on welfare and dont have to work cuz there lazy.hip-hop teaches black men to degrade women.and black moms are not doing there job teaching there sons to respect women.they let there kids run wild.and trina native americans owned this land my ancestors they would send blacks back to africa if they owned this country.so trina i'll pray for you.i hope terrorists bomb all black neighborhoods to get rid of you people.god washed you guys out with hurricane katrina take that as a sign that noone wants you here.and you blacks keep on killing eachother the less the better.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 06:44:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I lie (none / 0)

The only thing the Clinton campaign has done is push me to the Obama camp and ensure that I work harder to defeat Clinton than any of the nutjob-y Republicans.

Yup. I'm leaning Edwards, but I'm so furious with the Clintons and their dirty racist campaign tricks that I feel like supporting Obama just to stick a finger in Billary's eye and give them a hearty "F U".

Bill's radio appearance today just added to the lameness of their excuses for what they're doing.

by CabinGirl on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 06:25:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (none / 1)

"At what point do the Clintons pass your point of no return?"

They did that in the 1990s. NAFTA and PRWORA did it for me.

Oh, and Ricky Rector was pretty fucking shameful too.

Brendan Calling John Mccain

by brendan on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 03:35:51 PM EST

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (4.00 / 2)

Geez, I don't even know where to start. The first Clinton reign was bad enough that I actually started voting for Republicans. (I know, I know. I'm older and wiser now.)

Several things stick out in my memory: NAFTA, the gutting of welfare, the V-Chip, the Waco massacre, the DMCA, expanded police powers, backing down on integrating the military, Sister Souljah, the continual bombing of Iraq, and the cruise missile attacks on Somalia and Afghanistan that always seemed to happen whenever Monica Lewinsky took the stand. And, of course, mismanaging the health care debate so effectively that we lost Congress to the GOP.

Oh yes, let's have more of THAT.

---Cthulhu for President: Why vote for the lesser evil?

by eodell (eodell at naqada dot org) on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 04:02:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (none / 0)

The tone of this campaign will help niether Hillary nor Obama. It is uniformly damaging. The likely beneficiary/ies are across the aisle.

Fear will keep the local systems in line. -Grand Moff Tarkin Survivor Left Blogistan

by boran2 (blogistan@yahoo.com) on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 03:56:40 PM EST

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (4.00 / 2)

It would not be the first time the Clintons handed a giant victory to the other side.

---Cthulhu for President: Why vote for the lesser evil?

by eodell (eodell at naqada dot org) on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 04:07:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (none / 0)

That was exactly the Clinton's intent - to raise Obama's negatives. When Obama won Iowa they had to stop the momentum. They have but I think they have damaged themselves and the Democratic party. When you go negative you always risk raising your own negatives - the Clintons, I suppose, thought it was worth the risk -
Obama seemed unstoppable - One big problem they have though is even if they win the nomination Hillary had high negatives to begin with and its likely this little mudfest they created will raise them more.

Its very sad for me. Character means a lot. Obama has Character above everything else - I think the Clintons may have done him in.
I hope not but I am afraid so.

by Moonwood on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 07:04:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The negatives (none / 0)

That's what I don't get. I saw a poll at the beginning of the year, I think it was a CNN poll that had Clinton's negatives around 80% (don't ask me MoE). If anything, this attack is raising her negatives. What is the goal?

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 09:17:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (none / 1)

Given my long-standing disenchantment with the Clintons, I'll forgo speculating on their motivations and intentions, but the result of bringing race into the foreground of the primary campaign will almost certainly work in their favor. Obama has had to walk a very narrow line between being attacked as a sellout by the more militant blacks, and an angry black man by "moderate" chronically frightened liberals and independents.

Until now he managed to strike an effective balance, letting his background suggest that he represents hope for something new, while at the same time remaining clearly a member of the cultural mainstream. The series of "slips" by Clinton supporters (and fanned by some of Obama's) threatens to wreck that balance and bring racial attitudes into the nomination process. Maybe that was inevitable.

I don't think the Clintons are racist in any way. And yet nothing could have worked better for their electoral prospects than these casual remarks that the idiot media predictably blew up into headline news. We'll see how it all plays out, but if the Dem campaign shatters the hope and belief that we have moved past the day when race underlies all political discourse, our side may face stunning disappointment come November. Or, if it goes on long enough, primary voters may turn away from both frontrunners and choose somebody more comfortable. All I know is that my interlude of optimism for the Dems and America is now officially over.

Bush is "the first President to admit to an impeachable offense." --Former Nixon counsel John Dean

by DaveW on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 04:11:24 PM EST

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (none / 1)

Sadly, we have failed to disabuse the Clintons and the entire Democratic party of the notion that "we will vote for them anyway because no matter what they do, they're not Mike Huckabee's backwater ignorance, Rudy Guiliani's overt fascism, or John McCain's endless warmongering."

And yet the ignorance, fascism, and warmongering continue to increase almost daily.

Look, I come from a strongly Catholic family of pro-life Democrats (as rare as that is, we do exist.) There is a limit. People like my parents will either sit out or vote for somebody like McCain if the Democrats can't get their shit together.

by Zandar1 on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 04:26:26 PM EST

Re: The Clintons and Civil Rights (none / 0)

Read Chapter Five "Justice Jim" Rides Again of Conason and Lyons' The Hunting of the President to consider Bill Clinton and his relationship with civil rights in some historical context.

Pages are available online, by going to books.google.com and searching for "jim johnson bill clinton orval faubus".

by aegidius on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 04:27:32 PM EST

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (none / 1)

Booman, is your site getting "hammered" because I've been getting a lot of error messages the last two days. The Clintons are shamefully trying to box Obama as the "black " candidate. And that shows how the Clintons are out-dated, out-of-touch, out-of-step with the new Democratic party. If you want change vote Edwards or Obama.

I think we need to get back on point, Hillary voted for the war in Iraq, she voted to start a war with Iran, she won't commit to pulling troops out of Iraq.

by americanforliberty on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 05:21:55 PM EST

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (none / 0)

To answer your question:

It was early in '93.

by peacearena on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 05:42:11 PM EST

Democratic Leadership Council (none / 0)

I do wonder if people simply forget why the DLC was formed and that the Clintons have never been on the side of Black folk - Bill simply rid us of the Reagan-Bush years and he got love for that. Right about now that love is nothing more than a second-hand emotion - Anna Mae ain't eatin' no mo' m'fing cake!

The Underground Railroad

by Oscar In Louisville on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 06:47:23 PM EST

Re: The Clintons Point of No Return (none / 0)

The real problem here, and a source of GREAT disappointment to me is the FAILURE of the National Democratic Party Chairman, Dr. Howard Dean!! The obnoxious tabloidistic publicity fogging up the Obama and Clinton campaigns is directly due to his lack of leadership as the chairman of the party committee. Will somebody PLEASE give this man a wake-up call while there is still time to preserve the chances for a Democratic victory in the GENERAL election? Cheeze!!!

by parvenu on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 07:02:03 PM EST

WTF? (none / 0)

The National Democratic Party Chairman has about as much sway over presidential candidates as the UN Secretary-General has over the US and Russian presidents.

None.

So what, exactly, would you have Howard Dean do? Ask the Clintons to play nice? Threaten them with, um, what exactly? Perhaps the real problem here is a lack of understanding about how the national parties actually operate.

The Underground Railroad

by Oscar In Louisville on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 07:09:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WTF? (none / 0)

Oscar, you are excused for the amazing deficit in your perspective. Fortunately, the people who matter in the politics of the Democratic party have much more concern than you. Charlie Rose program on PBS tonight opened with a 1/2 hour segment with Rep. James Clyburn (D_SC) from Washington. Rep Clyburn who just arrived back in the country was greatly disturbed by the "Race vs Gender" discussion that has been escalating in the national media. He requested time on Charlie Rose's TV show in an public appeal to put a halt to this very divisive topic and return to the real issues of the day. Now according to your estimate his concern carries no weight on either campaign. However, he said Bill Clinton called him upon his arrival back in Washington. He also said that he spoke with Senator Obama soon after his conversation with Bill Clinton. He said he strongly requested that both campaigns "tone down the rhetoric out of consideration of the people of South Carolina.

In my estimation this is something that the Chairman of the DNC should have done. Who do you think runs the Democratic Convention? My friend me thinks you need to learn quite a bit about leadership and taking responsibility.

by parvenu on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 11:54:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

way to come out swinging, boo (none / 0)

lol. statements like your opening paragraph are why you are a) a real progressive and b) never going to get the invites to the elite cocktail parties in the beltway. kudos for speaking truth and going against the grain.

by chicago dyke (anheduanna at yahoo.com) on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 07:07:12 PM EST

thinking on the "matter," (none / 0)

my reaction is mostly "feh." boo's most important point is about why johnson seems to be supporting all the wrong dem groups (from a progressive perspective). wynn? barf. (and it's sort of hard to call johnson a "racist" if he's given lots of money to wynn and rangel, right?) but johnson's funding choices tell me all i need to know. as well as the fact that he's given money to republicans. like they need any! no, it's not the 'racist slur' of sort of mentioning obama's drug use, it's dirty money for dirty DINOs and antiprogressive policies and their authors. so yeah, by defending johnson, clinton disappoints. again.

but as to the reference to drug use- well, obama did use drugs. so what! that's one place where i totally respect obama, he came clean, explained the circumstances, and moved on. like most americans want, i suspect. it's only thing to say "i was a drunk and cokehead for 40 years and fucked up everything i touched because i was an out of control addict." that should disqualify you, or at least be a big red flag, when it comes to the highest office (no pun intd.) but smoking a little reefer, coming clean about it years later, why is that an issue? i really don't think people care.

now, horserace watchers and people who are all caught up in the day to day of the campaign communications- sure, that set will make this a "big" issue. there are plenty of ways to spin it. a) anyone who mentions obama used drugs must be a racist or b) obama isn't to be trusted and it's just plain speaking to say we shouldn't have a drug user in office and so on. but as far as "what matters" it's really not an important issue. not what obama did with a joint decades ago, nor what clinton supporters have to say about it.

let's talk about the issues, and the candidates' policy and voting records. for example, i haven't yet seen any real discussion or comparison on the various candidates' positions on the "war on drugs" or the prison-industrial complex or mandatory sentencing laws. isn't that more important for voters to know? this intracampaign chatter is meaningless by comparison, and a distraction.

by chicago dyke (anheduanna at yahoo.com) on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 07:23:56 PM EST

Devil's Advocate (none / 0)

On the issues the candidates - at least in what they've said and published - are relatively similar, enough so that the results would be essentially identical once their proposals get through Congress. The use of this intramural affair is that it shows us - very clearly - which constituencies matter most to each of the candidates. If there's tension between one constituency and another this shows us who will get fed and who will go hungry depending on which candidate gets the nomination, and within a party primary I believe that to be rather important.

The Underground Railroad

by Oscar In Louisville on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 07:38:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Devil's Advocate (none / 0)

Though I know this is off topic, I just thought I'd throw this thought in the mix. I'm just disgusted at how "black leadership" has prostrated itself before all that is Billary. They are supposed to champion our interests and they've failed miserably. Their self-respect is for sale. Worse, they think we're stupid.

Might it be time for a few primary challenges?

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Tue Jan 15th, 2008 at 05:07:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Clintons Point of No Return | 33 comments (33 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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