Booman Tribune

FISA Outline

by BooMan
Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:09:13 PM EST

The debate on FISA in going on now and can be watched on CSPAN-2. A source in Majority Leader Harry Reid's office has provided me with the following outline (edited a bit for clarity):

Right now there is no agreement in place whether various FISA amendments will be subject to a simple or super majority.

The expected first vote that will take place today will be on the Senate Judiciary Committee version (the better version), which will take place around 2 pm EST. It will be a GOP motion to table that amendment subject to a simple majority.

In other words, the Judiciary bill will be dropped at this point if two Democrats vote to table it. Trust me, this will happen.

The way the procedure is set up right now Senator Reid is making the Republicans filibuster on the floor today. If the Republicans want to impose 60 vote threshold on Dodd/Feinfold's amendment (which Senator Reid supports as he remarked on the floor today) they will have to filibuster and run the time.

Reid has set it up so a united Democratic caucus can pass amendments. Too bad they are not united.

  • Right now the Senators are debating the bill that came out of the Senate Judiciary Committee (SJC) as an amendment to the version that started from Senate Intelligence Committee (SIC) which doesn't contain the immunity provision

  • There is no agreement in place on whether a vote on the SJC version will be subjected to a 60 vote threshold.

This doesn't matter because the Judiciary Bill will be tabled and not put to a vote.

  • At 2 pm EST today the Republicans will move to table the SJC version which will be subjected to simple majority

  • Senator Reid will oppose that motion to table

  • If the motion to table SJC version is successful, we will revert back to SIC version which is the base bill

  • At that point we are going to have debates on various amendments to that base bill:

    • Senator Dodd/Feingold will be submitting their amendment against immunity which Senator Reid will support

    • Senator Rockefeller/Bond will have their own amendments which includes their modifications from the Senate Intelligence Committee which includes an amendment submitted by Senator Wyden

    • Other Senators will also look to submit various parts of legislation that came out of SJC as individual amendments

  • Currently there is no agreement in place on whether roll call votes on those amendments will be subject to super majority or simple majority

  • Senator Reid is on record saying he will not facilitate any agreement wrt to Super Majority. From the floor today:

    As I have said before, if there are senators who don't like these amendments and think they should be subjected to 60-vote thresholds, these senators are going to have to engage in an old-fashioned filibuster. These amendments are by and large germane, and I believe they should be adopted if a majority of the Senate supports them

  • Again that remark from this am is directed towards Republican Senators.

  • At any point during the debate Senator McConnell may file cloture to cut off debate on the entire bill

Enjoy.



Display:
My man Dodd is at it and he rocks.  Looks so presidential.  Crap that makes me depressed.
by BlueMonkey on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:25:35 PM EST
Dodd is the man of the hour - no, the DAY. He's on my TeeVee and I suspect he'll be there for a good portion of the day. I hope he's got his bladder and stuff under control. He could be there for a long time when the filibuster gets underway..

If this gets into full-blown fillibuster mode:

If anyone has Senators in support of his actions, encourage them to go and ask questions, without asking him to yield the floor, just yield for questions. Then ask long drawn out questions, encouraging him to sit for the question and perhaps have a drink of water while they ask it.

by RandyH on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:35:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can hear the money clanging in Saxby Chambliss' pockets.
by BooMan on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:40:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Effing tool.

I'm sure only to be surpassed by Kit Bond.

Gah.

by BlueMonkey on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:47:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OrrinHatch2000.com is praising Rockefeller.
by BooMan on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:49:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, just heard that.  Condescending little prick.

I can't take any more.  They've driven me back to my work.

Asshats.

Oh, great, Orifice has a chart.  That's it.  I'm done.

Rage on, good people.

by BlueMonkey on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:55:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I just wish somebody could explain why the Dems can't just refuse to pass any FISA bill at all if it contains immunity. We can get along just fine without one.

Bush is "the first President to admit to an impeachable offense." --Former Nixon counsel John Dean
by DaveW on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:19:26 PM EST
Because Reid has decided to bring this vote up in a way that ensure that a mere majority can kill the Judiciary Bill, but it takes 60 votes to kill the Intelligence version that has immunity.  And because  (probably) most Democrats would prefer to grant immunity than let the law lapse.

In other words, because the Democrats are caving.

by BooMan on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:24:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I hate them all. Anyone that goes along with this gets my undying enmity.  I'll show up at their funerals 60 years from now just to piss on their corpses.

Brendan Calling John Mccain
by brendan on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:28:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what? No crucifixion?
by BooMan on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:32:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's the thing: there will be no crucifixion, so abusing their corpses is about all we have.

Brendan Calling John Mccain
by brendan on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:42:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
listened  to VP Cheney's speech at the Heritage Foundation and came to the conclusion the Bush Administration is or was spying on everday Americans. Because, I would support protection for the big telecoms from being sued by "terrorist" or persons convicted of terrorism. However, Cheney wants blanket coverage which is only reasonable if  the big telecoms were assisting the government on spying on the average American without a warrant.
by americanforliberty on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:29:42 PM EST
Bingo.
by BooMan on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:31:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A DUH moment: Sooo, when we have a telecom disconnecting a wiretap service because of an unpaid invoice, just what kind of a fee (or a discount therein) would your average All American telecom charge for data mining? Since I'm assuming these are no-bid contracts, and just like isolation pay there must be a premium for the added risk, (although I'm sure they were assured that GW had it under control) I just wonder how such a contract of complicit agreement that no one wants advertised, gets to the point where they cut off the govt? Just muttering.


No Hillary, you were outspent by the people not the Obama campaign.
by mainsailset (rideback@gmail.com) on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 02:11:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
FACT SHEET - POTENTIAL FEINGOLD AMENDMENTS TO FISA BILL

As the Senate resumes consideration of the Senate Intelligence Committee's FISA bill, Senator Feingold will continue to oppose any FISA legislation that does not adequately protect the privacy of innocent Americans or contains immunity for telecommunications companies that allegedly participated in the President's illegal warrantless wiretapping program.  He also plans to offer a series of amendments to help fix the deeply flawed bill.

·                    Dodd-Feingold Amendment Stripping Retroactive Immunity

Along with Senator Chris Dodd, Senator Feingold will offer an amendment to strike Title II of the Intelligence Committee bill, which provides immunity to telecommunications companies that allegedly cooperated with the President's illegal warrantless wiretapping program.

·                    Feingold-Webb-Tester Amendment to Provide Protections for Americans

Senator Feingold intends to offer an amendment along with Senators Jim Webb and Jon Tester to allow the government to get the information it needs about terrorists and purely foreign communications, while providing additional checks and balances for communications involving Americans.  Under the Intelligence Committee bill, many law-abiding Americans who communicate with completely innocent people overseas will have their communications swept up, with virtually no judicial involvement or oversight.

·                    Use Limits Amendment

This amendment, which was part of the Senate Judiciary Committee version of the FISA bill, gives the FISA Court discretion to impose restrictions on the use of information about Americans that is acquired through procedures later determined to be illegal by the FISA court.  This enforcement mechanism is needed because the government can implement its procedures before it has to submit them to the FISA Court for review to determine whether they are reasonably designed to target people overseas rather in the United States.

·                    Prohibiting "Reverse Targeting"

Senator Feingold successfully offered this amendment in the Judiciary Committee to add a meaningful prohibition on "reverse targeting," a practice by which the government gets around FISA's court order requirement by wiretapping an individual overseas when it is really interested in a person in the U.S. with whom that supposed foreign target is communicating.  The Director of National Intelligence has agreed that "reverse targeting" is unconstitutional.  Senator Feingold's amendment requires the government to obtain a court order whenever a significant purpose of the surveillance is to acquire the communications of an American.

·                    Prohibiting "Bulk Collection"

Senator Feingold successfully offered this amendment in the Senate Judiciary Committee to prohibit "bulk collection" -- the collection of all international communications into and out of the U.S to a whole continent, or even the entire world.  Such collection without a foreign intelligence purpose would be constitutionally suspect and would go well beyond what the government has says it needs to protect the American people.   Yet, the Director of National Intelligence testified at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing that the Protect America Act - which was enacted last year -- permits "bulk collection."   The amendment makes clear that bulk collection is not authorized by requiring the government to certify that it is collecting the communications of foreign targets from whom it expects to obtain foreign intelligence information.    

·                    Giving Congress Access to FISA Court Materials

This amendment assists Congress in its legislative and oversight functions by requiring that Congress be provided timely access to FISA court pleadings related to significant interpretations of law, which may be necessary to understand the court's rulings, as well as past FISA court orders containing such interpretations.  The amendment was part of the bill reported by the Judiciary Committee and is based on language approved on a bipartisan basis by the Intelligence Committee when Senator Feingold offered it as an amendment to the intelligence authorization bill.

by BooMan on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:30:52 PM EST
I am not ashamed to admit I have a man-crush on Feingold.  It's my fervent hope that after a Democrat is elected President this year, they'll be smart enough to appoint him to the next SCOTUS opening.

Tengo un sueño.
by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:50:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Me too. Big time man-crush on Feingold... always have. When he speaks, I perk up and listen. The whole Supreme Court idea is an excellent one. Never thought of that before. I'd love to read his opinions.
by RandyH on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:58:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Feingold's my senator now, not as good as Wellstone was when I lived in MN ... but still puts up a good fight.

I get the sense that this isn't just politics, that some of the Senators are more fearful of this FISA vote than is really warranted.

Not to get all black helicopter here, but does the intelligence community have sh*t on some of these Senators?

by shaej on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:56:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No black helecopters or tinfoil hats required...

Of course they do. This program was put into place in Feb 2001, 7 months before 9/11 and just days after Cheney took office. It always has been about collecting data on political opponents and that is why we can't allow telecom immunity. Anything else can be changed in the future, but once immunity is granted, it can't be taken back. Right now, the only way we're gonna get any facts out of any kind of investigation is through the discovery process in civil lawsuits against the telcos. Everything else will always be "classified."  

But yes, this has never been about "terrorist surveillance," but about "political opponent surveillance."

by RandyH on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 01:06:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
passing a FISA bill with whatever crap Bush wants with a 12 month horizon.

The Dems would then have the whip hand.

by dataguy on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:53:45 PM EST
give them immunity?  That's an obstruction of justice under the cover of law.
by BooMan on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:55:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When does the statute of limitations run out?
by dataguy on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:56:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you can't repeal immunity.
by BooMan on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 12:58:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Once it's granted, it's good going forward?
by dataguy on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 01:16:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
of course.
by BooMan on Thu Jan 24th, 2008 at 01:18:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Display:
Go to: [ Booman Tribune Homepage : Top of page : Top of comments ]
Menu
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password





Proud member of

The Liberal Blog Network

a FeedBurner Network


Advertise in The Liberal Blog Network

Subscribe to this network

A-List Blogger

Find textbooks at Alibris!

NOTE: Overstock bests Amazon's prices and is "blue."

THE BOOKS WITH "BUZZ":
______________

Learn the real story behind the WMD in Iraq:

The Way of the World: A Story of Truth and Hope in an Age of Extremism
by Ron Suskind

Read Barack Obama's vision for America:

The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream
by Barack Obama

DaveW recommends:

I Am a Strange Loop
by Douglas Hofstadter

Need some laughs?

I Am America (and So Can You!)
by Stephen Colbert

rae recommends:

Dark Ages America: The Final Phase of Empire
by Morris Berman.

On BooMan’s shelf:

The End of Iraq: How American Incompetence Created a War Without End
by Peter W. Galbraith

This looks interesting:

Adventure Divas
by Holly Morris

Here’s a good one from
Elizabeth Gilbert:

Eat Pray Love
by Elizabeth Gilbert

"Crash" * Best Motion Picture, Academy Awards * Only $11.79 at Overstock * 2006 SAG Winner, Best Ensemble

Check out
Powell's new section:
NEW FAVORITES

Selected new arrivals at 30% off

Recommended by Indianadem and ejmw:
The Conscience of a Liberal
by Paul Wellstone

From northcountry’s bookshelf:

The New Golden Age:
The Coming Revolution Against
Political Corruption and Economic Chaos
by Ravi Batra

A novel about contractors in Iraq from the woman that runs The Spy That Billed Me:

Outsourced: A Novel
from RJ Hillhouse.


SOTW-120x90
Download Sleeper Cell on iTunes (Better than "24") Download Weeds on iTunes (Hilarious 1/2-hour adult comedy starring Mary-Louise Parker) Download Late Nite with Conan O'Brien on iTunes
John Belushi - SNL
Download South Park on iTunes
Verve Vault

James Hunter - People Gonna Talk:
James Hunter - People Gonna Talk
icon


Great Deals
----- * ^ * -----

Find mystery novels by Nancy Pickard ("Kansas")



Challenging Empire: How People, Governments, and the UN Defy US Power by Phyllis Bennis (interviewed on DN!)


Featured by Keith Olbermann, New (Powell's Sale): Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower by William Blum (whose other books merit serious consideration)


"Explosive" State of War: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration
by James Risen


The book the CIA doesn't want you to read: Jawbreaker: The Attack on Bin Laden and Al Qaeda: A Personal Account by the CIA's Key Field Commander
Larry Johnson's review


BT's all-time best seller:

PERMACULTURE:
A Designers' Manual

$79.95 * Sale: $59.95


Unequal Sisters: A Multicultural Reader in U.S. Women's History (Third Edition)


The Undercover Economist: Exposing Why the Rich Are Rich, the Poor Are Poor And Why You Can Never Buy a Decent Used Car!


The Worst Hard Time: The Untold Story of Those Who Survived the Great American Dust Bowl
by Timothy Egan


Green Press Initiative
----- * ^ * -----


Journalistas: 100 Years of the Best Writing and Reporting by Women Journalists by Eleanor Mills * NYT review


Bury Me Standing: the Gypsies & Their Journey


1491: New Revelations of the Americas before Columbus



Brokeback Mountain
by Annie Proulx
----- * ^ * -----
Check out Powell's
"At The Movies"


Imperial Ambitions: Conversations on the Post-9/11 World by Noam Chomsky (Power & Terror: Post 9-11 Talks)


The Price of Privilege:

How Parental Pressure and
Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of
Disconnected and Unhappy Kids

by Madeline Levine


Save 35-70% on
name brand clothing,
footwear, and outdoor gear
at SierraTradingPost.com

:





We listened to PEN American Center's "State of Emergency" and found 1940s books by Curzio Malaparte only at Alibris. (Selection (MP3) excerpted from "The Skin.")

Alibris - Books You Thought You'd Never Find
Banned Books * Are you a fan of Film Noir, Art House, Documentaries or Hong Kong Action? * Searching for a long-lost children's book or a first printing of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue on vinyl? Find it at Alibris!

:
:
www.Patagonia.com



Booman Tribune Homepage
admin@boomantribune.com
powered by Scoop

A-List Blogger

Blogarama - The Blog Directory

More blogs about Blogs at Technorati.

Listed on BlogShares

© 2007 Booman Tribune