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Post-Debate Thread

by BooMan
Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 10:36:43 PM EST

Pictorial representation of McCain's performance (and Naval career).

Post-Debate Thread | 55 comments (55 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

that was quick.

McCain lost a lot of women in his discussion on the abortion mocking a woman's health. Really.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 10:39:16 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Pundits are saying this was McSame's BEST debate. Seriously. I think Obama killed him 5-0-3 ties.

More at Zandar vs. The Stupid.

by Zandar1 on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 10:42:32 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

wait until the stock market falls again tomorrow. McCain still needs to find a message on the economy. cnbc is hilarious...

I don't want a tax cut, I want a job.

by americanforliberty on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 10:44:08 PM EST

Watch. (none / 0)

The "If you wanted to run against President Bush you should have run 4 years ago" line alone will bump McCain up 3 points in the polls.

Watch.

AG

Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie.-Mae West

by Arthur Gilroy (arthurgilroy<at>earthlink.net) on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 10:45:47 PM EST

Re: Watch. (none / 0)

Only if the media really hipes it up. It's not really comparable to Reagan's one-liners.

The CNN panel just determined that Obama won.

A-bomb, H-bomb, Minuteman / The names get more attractive
The decisions are made by NATO / The press call it public opinion
-- The Three Johns

by Alexander on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 10:49:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It WILL be hyped. (none / 0)

Remember...the media is in the business of selling air time to advertisers.

If this thing is all over...no more story.

No more story...lower ratings.

Lower ratings? Lower profits.

That's the way it works.

Watch.

AG

Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie.-Mae West

by Arthur Gilroy (arthurgilroy<at>earthlink.net) on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:17:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Watch. (none / 0)

The pundits are openly saying that this was McCain's best debate, and that they saw nothing that would change the tide from Obama.

by CabinGirl on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 10:50:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's what I said. (none / 0)

The "tide" for Obama will not change.

Not really.

It'll go out a little is all.

AG

Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie.-Mae West

by Arthur Gilroy (arthurgilroy<at>earthlink.net) on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:18:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Watch. (none / 0)

one line...at the beginning...kind of snarky....followed by snorting and weird ass facial stuff and ants in his pants plus comment negative to women.

Edible panties taste like crap.

by anna in philly (jrsygir1@aol.com) on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 10:51:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Watch. (none / 0)

According to the CNN snap poll McCain lost big time, including favourables down, unfavourables up. Obama's favourables with up, unfavourables down.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:05:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Watch. (none / 0)

this was McCain's worst debate because it showed him in his worst light. He was an irredeemable asshole the entire evening and the split-screen showed him for hate-filled jerk-off he really is.

by BooMan on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:07:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Watch. (none / 0)

Yes, but not everyone saw the split screen, though I agree about what it showed - unbelievable that he just couldn't contain himself, even though I am sure he's been told to tone it down.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:11:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Watch. (none / 0)

But...Booman.

That is precisely the audience at which he is aiming his campaign.

Irredeemable assholes and hate-filled jerk-offs.

Don't you get it?

He is betting that they are numerous enough to pull this thing off.

I think that he is wrong. But at least I understand his tactic.

Your innocence is overwhelming.

Touching, but...overwhelming.

Later...

AG

Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie.-Mae West

by Arthur Gilroy (arthurgilroy<at>earthlink.net) on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:33:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Watch. (none / 0)

If you think McCain is wrong then you agree with me and your stupid 'touching' remark is pointless.

by BooMan on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:43:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I think that his tactic will not work. (none / 0)

Thus it is "wrong".

I also think that his policies will not work.

Ditto on the 'wrong" idea.

But to write...and apparently believe...that:

...this was McCain's worst debate because it showed him in his worst light. He was an irredeemable asshole the entire evening and the split-screen showed him for hate-filled jerk-off he really is.

Says to me that you don't have a clue about what kinds of projected attitudes win elections in this country.

Like votes for like, Booman.

More than 49% of this country has voted for equally irredeemable assholes like Nixon, Reagan and the Butches. Irredeemable assholes who were quite clear about their attitudes during the campaigns that brought them to power.

What does that say to me?

It says the the irredeemable asshole vote is quite large here.

I think...I am hoping...that its size has shrunk somewhat since those times.

McCain thinks otherwise. That's why he selected Palin in the first place.

She is a irredeemable asshole MAGNET.

We shall soon see who is right.

2 1/2 weeks left and Obama still hasn't knocked this tomato can out.

I worry.

Sue me.

AG

Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie.-Mae West

by Arthur Gilroy (arthurgilroy<at>earthlink.net) on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 01:13:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think that his tactic will not work. (none / 0)

by BooMan on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 01:26:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Watch. (none / 0)

Sure it will. Still smarting on Obama picking Biden over Hillary, are we?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:54:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nope. (none / 0)

Just watching two pros play the game.

McCain helped himself tonight.

Obama played a prevent defense.

Will the whole tenor of the election change because of this debate?

Nope.

But if Obama wants to be able to do something real, he is going to need every vote he can get in order to lengthen and strengthen his coattails. That is why I wanted to see Hillary on the ticket, and that is why I a regretting his overly defensive position.

Too late now.

Better safe than sorry?

Sorry.

I don't know about that.

To me, Obama's approach resonates uncomfortably closely with the approach of the '06 Dem majority in Congress.

Too cautious by half.

Americans are impressed by real passion, by action.

If this debate had been a prizefight, both fighters would have been booed.

Bet on it.

Barry Goldwater said:

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.

Well, AG says:

Pattycake shit in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

Bet on it.

Later...

AG

Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie.-Mae West

by Arthur Gilroy (arthurgilroy<at>earthlink.net) on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:29:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope. (none / 0)

Dude, you are about to see the equivalent of John Coltrane elected president and you're still bitching.

by BooMan on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:34:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

'Trane took chances. (none / 0)

Obama reminds me more of Nat King Cole.

That's not a bad thing.

Nat was a motherfucker.

Really.

A great pianist and a great singer. But he played it safe.

VERY safe.

Safe and smoooooth.

Just sayin'...if you expect the kind of revolution in politics that 'Trane started in jazz...you're backing the wrong artist.

AG

Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie.-Mae West

by Arthur Gilroy (arthurgilroy<at>earthlink.net) on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:57:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 'Trane took chances. (none / 0)

Okay, fair critique.

In boxing, Obama compares with The Greatest.

by BooMan on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 01:01:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't see it. (none / 0)

Ali got in peoples' faces.

He had a mean streak a mile wide.

Obama just sits there.

Smiling.

More like the Cheshire Cat than the greatest.

I'm tellin' ya...the American people want an action figure. They're gonna get tired of this "above it all" shit. Sitting there watching the proles mix it up.

Before or after the election?

That's the only question left.

After, I hope.

AG

Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie.-Mae West

by Arthur Gilroy (arthurgilroy<at>earthlink.net) on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 01:20:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope. (none / 0)

"McCain helped himself tonight."

That sure isn't showing in the polls so far.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:40:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope. (none / 0)

Watch the real polls. Not the little make-news-now-and-snatch-a-little rating edge

By Friday or Monday,

Watch.

AG

Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie.-Mae West

by Arthur Gilroy (arthurgilroy<at>earthlink.net) on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:59:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope. (none / 0)

Yeah, I will.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 01:23:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Where are the instapolls? Arrrgh!

That format was perfect for Obama. He really came across as a leader. I think that was the final nail.

"Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." - Malcolm X

by Woodpecker on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 10:50:35 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

CBS instapoll of undecideds - who won?

Obama 53%
McCain 22%
Tie 24%

by maryb2004 on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 10:58:14 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

wow, more than 2-1 in favor of Obama.

by CabinGirl on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:02:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

CNN has similar numbers in favor of Obama.. 85% to 12% with 3% going with "no winner"

One way or the other, this darkness has to give....

by Denim Blue on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:03:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Of the undecideds who made up their minds 28% went for Obama and 14% went for McCain (58% stayed undecided.

On Taxes, when asked if the candidate would raise them, they compared before and after.

Before 56% thought McCain would raise taxes, after 48% thought so.

Before 68% thought Obama would raise taxes, after 63% thought he would.

On healthcare - would he manage healthcare right?
Before 27% thought McCain would and after 30% did.
Before 61% thought Obama would and after 29% did.

by maryb2004 on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:05:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Obama went from 61% to 29% on being the better one to manage health care?

One way or the other, this darkness has to give....

by Denim Blue on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:08:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Before 61% thought Obama would and after 29% did.

Is this a typo or did Obama tank the healthcare question for the folks in the CNN poll?

The CBS poll was before 61% thought Obama would be good on healthcare and after it was 69%

by nonynony on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:09:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Ah wait - I just realized that mary was talking about the CBS poll. So the 29% is a typo - it should be 69%.

by nonynony on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:11:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Whew!! Because I sure didn't like the implications of McCain health care plan.

Something that should be spread throughout the blogs is that if you're laid off and complete the 18 months of COBRA, under the HIPPA bill you are entitled to enroll with the insurer of last resort in your state (usually BC/BS) with community ratings which can not take into account your health condition or age. Digging that fact out via the web saved us $1000 (approx. $1350 vs. $350 a month) on the same plan.

One way or the other, this darkness has to give....

by Denim Blue on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:18:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 1)

oops, yep. it was a typo. should be 69%

by maryb2004 on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:15:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

On healthcare - would he manage healthcare right?
[...]
Before 61% thought Obama would and after 29% did.

Ouch. Probably the public would have responded positively to a simple message, like "Medicare for all". But Obama has been afraid to advocate a simple, true single-payer plan, because the insurance companies would go after him then.

A-bomb, H-bomb, Minuteman / The names get more attractive
The decisions are made by NATO / The press call it public opinion
-- The Three Johns

by Alexander on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:10:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

See above - should be 69% not 29%. Obama did fine - people don't trust McCain's plan and that makes them trust Obama's more.

I wish Obama's plan was more ambitious, personally, because I think attitudes have shifted a lot even in the last year and a cry of "Medicare for all" might go over real well among folks who are upset about the socialism for the rich that we've been seeing over the last few months.

by nonynony on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:18:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

I don't want Medicare. I am more than happy with the plan I have now and would not want to be forced to change.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:19:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 1)

I qualified for Medicare the 1st of this month and, believe me, it's better than what I was paying over $250 a month (that with community rating) for in an individual policy. I can see my doctor for $15 instead of $85, I can get a mammogram, a pap smear and other tests without paying out of pocket if I don't have cancer. If you're employed with a generous employer, your health care can be good, but for those of us laid off in our late 50s & 60s there aren't any jobs and you pay through the nose for 4th class coverage. Obama's plan is to let people with coverage keep it and those who don't join a plan that has actual coverage.

One way or the other, this darkness has to give....

by Denim Blue on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:27:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

I pay $10 to see a doctor, and do not pay anything extra for routine and diagnostic exams, including CAT scans, MRI, etc. Also, I pay a slightly higher premium in order to be able to decide for myself when I need a specialist without having to get a "referral" from anyone.

I don't have anything against Medicare, and thank heaven it is available for those who need it. I just don't want to be forced into Medicare or anything else when I have other options that I am happy with.

And yes, one of the things I like about Obama's plan is that it does not force people who are happy with their medical coverage to give it up.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:00:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 1)

Setting aside this idea of being forced to change, would you change if it meant 45 million uninsured people got insurance and your premiums went down?

by BooMan on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:28:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

My premiums are not high relative to my income, and I get good value for them, so it would not make much difference to me if they went down.

As for the first part of your question, I don't know. I guess it would depend, among other things, on what I would have to change to.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:02:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

I agree that forcing people to leave a plan that they are not happy with is not a good idea, politically. But that does not undermine the basic "Medicare for all" idea.

A-bomb, H-bomb, Minuteman / The names get more attractive
The decisions are made by NATO / The press call it public opinion
-- The Three Johns

by Alexander on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:29:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 1)

That depends on what "Medicare for all" means. If it means Medicare is available for all who need it, I could never object to that. If it means Medicare or nothing, I would have big objections.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:03:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

I was over-interpreting. I should have realized as others did that there was no way the numbers could have changed so drastically, especially given that what Obama said about his plan sounded very reasonable and middle of the road.

A-bomb, H-bomb, Minuteman / The names get more attractive
The decisions are made by NATO / The press call it public opinion
-- The Three Johns

by Alexander on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:26:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

I find Obama's numbers on health care impossible to buy.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:12:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Here's a link to the preliminary CBS insta-poll results. They warn that they could change as more respondents are added, but it looks like most of the results are in.

Wow - 2 to 1 said Obama won the debate. Will this shut up the screeching masses on the right insisting that McCain need to "get tougher" with the smears, or will they just insist that he's not doing it right and he needs to smear better? I suppose that we'll see tomorrow, as the brave souls who scour the wingnut-o-sphere for comedy and scary tidbits will let us know.

by nonynony on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:06:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Is that an online poll? If so, it is not at all scientific, and therefore cannot be taken seriously.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:13:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

No it was a real poll. They do insta polls after every debate.

by maryb2004 on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:15:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Did you follow the link? Not an online poll - it's a snap poll of undecided voters, both before and after the debate to see how attitudes shifted.

by nonynony on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:16:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Well, the bobbleheads will likely blather on for a while about the "should have run 4 years ago remark". It will excite them tonight and it might well move the needle a little on the instant polls.

But I just don't think that McCain's hyperactive intensity and simmering outrage tonight is going to have any long term positive impact for him. He seemed to me, once again, to consistently give erratic statements. And he often was unclear with his thoughts because of his constant high level of emotion.

I really don't think the segment where they discussed Ayers and ACORN did McCain any favors either. I got the impression that if the discussion had gone on another five or ten minutes that he was going to jump up and put his finger in Obama's face. During that he was definitely the "get off my lawn guy".

We'll see how it plays in the hinterlands. Many of the punditry, of course, just loved his "feisty attitude". I'm not sure that was really the kind of big time play that he needed, but it really was all he had left in his arsenal. To be a high strung ass out there throwing haymakers and hoping something lands.

And, as expected, I think Obama is just playing defense at this point. Just trying to move the chains steadily and watch the clock tick down.

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity"

by MikeInOhio (miken45054@yahoo.com) on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 10:59:16 PM EST

Obama Pulls a Palin (none / 0)

By constantly addressing the camera directly, Obama took a page from Sarah Palin, effectively connecting on a level he's lacked, or at least reserved.

Well done.

Content may have gone to McCain or not, but Obama just connected a home run with women who may have found him cold and men who need a confident and cerebral leader more than a scarred warrior king.

Viva Presidente Ezequiel - Aquí no hay quien viva!

by anarchronarchist (mincers (-at-) hotmail (-dot-) com) on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 10:59:30 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

GOLD PLATED CADILLAC TRANSPLANT ACORN!!!!

by bkharmony on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 at 11:07:15 PM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Since I missed the debate I don't completely get the Joe the Plumber stuff. But apparently one of Ben Smith's commenters wonders who is going to play Joe the Plumber on SNL next weekend. Which seems to be an excellent post-debate question. :)

by maryb2004 on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:19:23 AM EST

Re: Post-Debate Thread (none / 0)

Man, it's too bad we no longer have Chris Farley. I picture him as the perfect SNL plumber. He could definitely show a killer "plumber's crack".

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity"

by MikeInOhio (miken45054@yahoo.com) on Thu Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:51:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Post-Debate Thread | 55 comments (55 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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