Booman Tribune

Open Thread

by BooMan
Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 02:00:56 PM EST

The only way that the whole Lieberman fiasco can possibly be partially justified is if it results in the Democrats having an extra seat on every committee in the Senate. I say 'partially' because Lieberman could have sustained harsher punishment (like the loss of his Armed Services subcommittee chair) and still stayed in the caucus. One little piece of food for thought...if the Democrats run the table on the elections in Alaska (probable), Minnesota (iffy), and Georgia (doubtful), they will have 60 members in their caucus and they'll be able to organize the Senate any old way they want. It will be that organizational vote that sets committee strengths that will be the real pay-off for accepting Lieberman back into the fold. As for filibusters, we still need to convince Ben Nelson, among others, to vote like a Democrat.



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Then why didn't the postpone this for when the recounts were decided?

Stray Roots Message Board,Thus far unmoderated! Dameocrat Blog
by StrayRoots (dameocrat@STUFFTOREMOVEpeacemail.com) on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 02:29:39 PM EST
A good question.  Apparently they may not be done soon enough.

Oh, there you are, Perry. -Phineas -SLB-
by boran2 (blogistan@yahoo.com) on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 03:12:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The whole thing's a crock of shit. This is the resistance to change happening, and it is taking the upper hand. If Obama out-geniuses all of the recidivist, ass-covering aristocrats in the American Establishment it will be the first time in a long time that such has happened. He is a very smart man, and I can only Hope (TM) that he has a strategy. But color me doubtful.

The Democrats in Congress are showing just how little interest they really have in the issues of Civil Rights and Liberties. There will be no consequences for the criminals in the Bush Administration, and the next generation of proto-fascist ideologues will learn the same lesson as the players in Iran-Contra: There are no consequences in the United States for abuse of power by the powerful, and the rule of law is a fairy tale used as window dressing for the cunning and as a locked gate to keep the interests of the majority strictly constrained. And ever shall it be. Tom Paine rolls in his grave.

The more control, the more that requires control. This is the road to chaos. -Frank Herbert, The Dosadi Experiment

by chimneyswift on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 03:07:57 PM EST
Try old England ca. 1850. Marx took a look and made a life out of writing about what is going on here. Yes, "The whole thing's a crock of shit." Money talks, an old American saying.

by shergald on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 03:18:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No doubt that the numbers game is what the Democrats are thinking about. So why should they express their disdain for Lieberman when there might be higher goals in mind.

Joe sucks, no question about that. But why spite your....you know the saying. But many Democrats will feel nausea when they swallow on this one. If there is an upside, then tolerating Joe might be worth it.

by shergald on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 02:21:39 PM EST
I have yet to see any brilliant strategy out of the Democratic Congress.
by Heart of the Rockies on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 04:21:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Reid, even Pelosi, think numbers, not principles. Must be a political thing. Personally I am for principles and Joe should have been shunned, in the good old Quaker way. You play with the team you have, not the team you would like have.

So as things "changed" in this election, they remained the same.

by shergald on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 05:06:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Booman, you are completely missing the big picture here. Lieberman is a bête noir of progressives, and Beltway Democrats know that. This is about Senate Dems showing just how little they care about what we think or want. Even Kos understands this.

And it's also worth reading what David Sirota has to say about this:
Senate Dems: "The Left Has Been Foiled".

Seems to me that House and Senate leaders have declared an all-out war on "the Left." In fact, "seems" is the wrong word. It doesn't "seem" like that. They are actually saying it explicitly.

Why do you persist in the delusion that Congressional Dems are on our side? They see us as their enemy. They don't represent us or the American people more generally; they represent the plutocracy that they belong to.

by Alexander on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 02:23:23 PM EST
I hope you didn't just realize that the United States Senate is the home of the plutocracy.  The people's house it ain't.  But it was never intended to be.
by BooMan on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 02:28:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What was the point of the Seventeeth Amendment, then?

The amendment specifically changed Article I, Section 3 of the Constitution to the extent the amendment provides for the direct, popular election of U.S. Senators by the people of the state they represent, rather than that state's legislature electing or appointing its two Senators.

I didn't realize you were so cynical.

by Alexander on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 02:47:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just wondering why President Bush is against helping GM, Ford and Chrysler? Did we get wage concessions from Bank of American, JPMorgan, and CitiGroup when we bailed them out.

I think GM should start closing its dealerships in Alabama and the home states of other Senators that oppose their "bridge Loan." Like the one we gave to AIG.

by americanforliberty on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 02:26:03 PM EST
Sorry for the stupid question, but how often are chairmanships decided?  At the beginning of each legislative session?
by RollaMO on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 02:48:37 PM EST
each Congress...every two years.
by BooMan on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 04:07:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
with all the military show of force in the Gulf and Indian Ocean, what going on here with all the Somali pirates?.

This is the seventh cargo ship hijacked in the last twelve days-- Makes 92 ships off the coast of Somalia for the year

BBC interview blames Bush for removing the Islamic Courts from power...said at least they kept peace and good order.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 03:32:25 PM EST
I am not even upset.

I was against Joe keeping the chair.  But, we have a REALISTIC chance of 60, and if that takes kissing Joe's butt, so be it.  That, my friends, is politics.  It is not the art of purity, but the art of the possible.  And Joe is needed to get to 60.  

So, here's to Joe Lieberman.  He now owes Obama, BIGTIME.

by dataguy on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 03:52:27 PM EST
Owing is not something that moves Lieberman. Don't forget, God put him where he is, not Obama. His only loyalty is to nonexistent objects. Which is pretty convenient, when you think about it.

Plus, the "60 vote" line is just nonsense -- some kind of belief in magical numbers. What percentage of Senate votes are ever straight party line?

FDR's response to progressive demands: "I agree. Now go out and make me do it."

by DaveW on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 06:02:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
sistah sarah, queen of the 26%ers goes for the gold. Sarah Palin's failure set to reap her $7m book deal
:

She failed to save John McCain from presidential election doom, but Sarah Palin, the Republican senator's controversial running mate, may yet emerge as the saviour of the American publishing industry. Literary agents are queueing up to sign her to a book deal that could earn her up to $7m.

With Barack Obama's election victory certain to generate dozens of volumes from politicians, strategists and journalists - and with another shelfload of memoirs expected from members of President George W Bush's administration - Palin's personal account of her tumultuous introduction to national politics is widely regarded as the book most likely to repay a multi-million-dollar advance.

"She's poised to make a ton of money," said Howard Rubenstein, New York's best-known public relations adviser.

"Every publisher and a lot of literary agents have been going after her," added Jeff Klein of Folio Literary management.

...

"Nobody is waiting for George W Bush's memoirs," one New York agent noted.

brings to mind warhols' adage about 15 minutes of fame...combined with the old standard: strike while the iron's hot...the lady is nothing, if not opportunistic.

h/t to mudflats, always a good read for all things pfalin.

the revolution will not be televised...

by dada on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 03:55:45 PM EST
npr is reporting that eric holder has been offered the position and has accepted...subject to senate approval, which obama's aides have been privately courting:

WASHINGTON November 18, 2008, 03:39 pm ET · President-elect Barack Obama's aides have privately asked senators whether Washington attorney Eric Holder would be confirmed as the next attorney general, according to a person involved in the talks.

The talks suggest that Obama is deeply interested in Holder, who served as the No. 2 official in the Justice Department under President Clinton.

In the past week, Obama aides have asked Senate Republicans whether they would support Holder. In particular, the aides questioned whether Holder's confirmation would be delayed because of his involvement in the 2001 pardon of fugitive Marc Rich by President Bill Clinton.

Newsweek, quoting unidentified legal sources close to the presidential transition team, reported Tuesday that Obama offered Holder the job and he accepted. Newsweek said Holder still has to undergo a formal "vetting" review by the Obama transition team before the selection is final.

One person involved in the talks told The Associated Press that the Obama team has received some assurances that, while the Rich pardon would certainly come up during hearings, the nomination likely wouldn't be held up over that. The person spoke on condition of anonymity to describe the private conversations.

change?

we shall soon see what change really means.

the revolution will not be televised...

by dada on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 04:10:21 PM EST

Well, it IS the Clintons' third term!

not to mention how sloppy, leaky and disjointed the transition phase has become.

Move on ...nothing new here...nothing to see.

Like all re-threads, material fatigue and blow outs do happen. Sooner, rather than later. And with this bunch, it'll be sooner --  the load is weighty.

Obama should have bought new.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 04:33:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Kansas Republican retaliate against members who donated to Barack Obama.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/story/895973.html

by americanforliberty on Tue Nov 18th, 2008 at 11:04:17 PM EST


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