Booman Tribune ~ A Progressive Community

Deep Thought

by BooMan
Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 06:57:31 PM EST

It's strange to see Pelosi whack Dingell like this. Who says progressives can't act like Good Fellas? Or did you forget that she's an old member of the Progressive Caucus? And the Old Bulls and Blue Dogs howl.

Deep Thought | 24 comments (24 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Deep Thought (4.00 / 2)

Seniority schmeniority. Let's have a system where the best person wins. Gee, what a thought.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 07:33:42 PM EST

Re: Deep Thought (4.00 / 2)

Well, as with all things, it's actually a bit more complex. If you're of the Rangel/Kaptur/etc. generation/world view, you favor seniority because that was the rule when they first came in. And that was a time when all the Cmte Chairs were of course, run by the white guys.

So imagine that you play by the rules all this time, and finally achieve some power, only to find that you can be upended after tilling the fields for so long.

I'm sympathetic, to a degree, for some of the Members who truly believe this. For some of the others, it's just a bad excuse not to do what needs to be done. For others, they feel threatened because they're not getting the job done. Tough.

Dingell, like most people, things and situations, is more complex than "Big 3 and NRA protector." He has goo-gobs of institutional knowledge. The man knows how to do oversight, and was legendary for putting the fear of God into the Administration officials who would dare try to BS him. He's good on a lot of things like health care, as was mentioned by Boo.

And when I had an issue with an agency that frankly was screwing up, a friend who was a former staff member proved to be immensely helpful for insight and options I could pursue to get their attention.

Did Dingell need to go? Absolutely. Am I sad to see him go? In some ways, yes, only because while I didn't agree with him on everything to a sometimes frustrating degree, I know he's not a boogeyman or a monster but a damned good legislator.

But he doesn't have the vision nor detachment to what is necessary for the nation or his own CD, and Waxman does. The time to act on the environment and the auto industry is now, and Dingell simply has too many blind spots to move forward.

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 10:52:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 1)

Let's have a system where the best person wins. Gee, what a thought.

What are you -- French? ;)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 11:16:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (4.00 / 3)

All I have to say is "Nancy, where was your f'ckin hardcore mode over the last 20 months when America needed it?"

If she had put a fraction of the effort behind stopping FISA, torture, telcomm immunity for illegal wiretapping and funding the disaster that is Iraq that she did in sandbagging Dingell, then I'd be willing to forgive her.

All this does is highlight how terribly ineffective and spineless she's been.

More at Zandar vs. The Stupid.

by Zandar1 on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 07:51:12 PM EST

Re: Deep Thought (none / 1)

I dunno. She just picked up 23 seats, or so. Almost all of them voted against Dingell. I think the strategy was to forego impeachment and just give them enough rope to hang themselves. They couldn't stop any of that shit anyway.

I still think they made some seriously punk moves, FISA chief among them. But, they were covering their own asses, too. Everyone lost their minds after 9/11. Everyone.

by BooMan on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 08:16:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 1)

We'll see.

There's just so much work to do, it's overwhelming.

Still, best way to get the work done is to start...and this is a decent start.

More at Zandar vs. The Stupid.

by Zandar1 on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 08:49:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

But how hard did Nancy work to attain those seats? She's been much worse than a disappointment. I think the Dems could have picked up more seats if Pelosi had exercised some chutzpah and defunded the occupation, stopped the revision of FISA, stopped the passage of the largest defense department spending bill of all time, etc. She's spineless, put in place by the Northern California Democratic machine just because she does what she's told to do. She had little history or presence in San Francisco when she was elevated to the House. She's a pretty face for the machine, nothing more.

Share. Share resources, share delight, share burdens, share the healing. Sharing will bring us back from mass suicide. www.share-international.org

by Isis on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 09:52:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

Huh?

by BooMan on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 10:25:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

I lived in SF for 7 years during her rise. She was born from the machine in Northern CA. She was a nobody that got promoted by the big bucks of Silicon Valley and the Democratic investment bankers of San Francisco.

Share. Share resources, share delight, share burdens, share the healing. Sharing will bring us back from mass suicide. www.share-international.org

by Isis on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 11:16:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 1)

you know who her father was, right?

by BooMan on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 11:33:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

See comment down thread.

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 11:37:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

Well, I think there's some truth to that, but I also think Pelosi is more than capable of being completely gutless and ineffectual. The truth is usually somewhere in between two extremes.

I disagree with you about 9/11. A lot of us didn't lose our minds, Boo. A lot of us saw 9/11 and responded the right way, advocating an end to our dependence on oil and our presence in the Middle East as, collectively, the only surefire way of defeating terrorist groups.

Most of the country did lose its mind, becoming easy prey for the Republicans and their plan to kill a bunch of Iraqis for no reason other than to create a path to stealing their oil.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 11:14:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 1)

I concur. Many of us didn't lose our minds. I never understood the hysteria, no matter how awful the incident. And the willingness to give up our freedoms and go to war never made any sense to me.

by Heart of the Rockies on Fri Nov 21st, 2008 at 12:54:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (4.00 / 2)

Whatever. They can go Suck. On. This.

I'm happy Dingell is gone from the chairmanship; he was an enabler for the auto industry for far too long. Now Waxman can force them to get their shit together and make cars people will actually buy.

by PsiFighter37 on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 07:51:22 PM EST

Re: Deep Thought (none / 1)

Well, a major part of the problem is that people WERE buying those cars for a long time. I mean, yes Dingell was responsible for not pushing them to look towards the future by raising CAFE standards, etc, but a lot of the inertia in domestic automotive development was exactly because those gas guzzlers were so popular.

Tengo un sueño.

by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 10:59:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

People will buy whatever's put in front of them. We are not smart consumers.

Share. Share resources, share delight, share burdens, share the healing. Sharing will bring us back from mass suicide. www.share-international.org

by Isis on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 11:17:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (4.00 / 3)

Well, I would say that we are easily deceived consumers, and that those pushing the consumables have mastered the art of deception through marketing.

If you think that the majority of people aren't able to make good decisions when informed, then democracy is bound to fail too.

Tengo un sueño.

by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 11:44:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deep Thought (none / 1)

Kaptur weeps for the heartland? Maybe Obama could create an Undersecretary of Drama Queen post so she could use her special talents.

There are some pluses for the seniority system, but I hope this event does indeed blow some big holes in it.

Bush is "the first President to admit to an impeachable offense." --Former Nixon counsel John Dean

by DaveW on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 07:13:35 PM EST

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

Yeah, I really treasured that one. Weeping for the heartland? Those awful Californians, taking over everything. Where's Chicago?

by BooMan on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 08:18:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We do not have a 2 party system (none / 1)

The parties caucus as bimodal groups in order to orgainize office space, but in fact the Blue Dogs are a separate party participating in a coalition government.

Pay attention, Greens! Get ten seats, and you upend the entire system. Caucus with the Dems, of course, but force us all to look at two progressive sides of every issue.

Michaela

by michaelmt (MrMichael_t@yahoo.com) on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 08:36:27 PM EST

We do not have a 2 party system (none / 0)

The parties caucus as bimodal groups in order to orgainize office space, but in fact the Blue Dogs are a separate party participating in a coalition government.

Pay attention, Greens! Get ten seats, and you upend the entire system. Caucus with the Dems, of course, but force us all to look at two progressive sides of every issue.

BTW: I'd encourage the same thing of Libertarians. But there's a real question as to which side they caucus with for organizational purposes.

Michaela

by michaelmt (MrMichael_t@yahoo.com) on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 08:37:13 PM EST

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

It just occurred to me that maybe Dingell has done some big no-no, and Nancy is covering his tracks by taking the spotlight off of him, reducing the impact of a scandal. Hmm?

Share. Share resources, share delight, share burdens, share the healing. Sharing will bring us back from mass suicide. www.share-international.org

by Isis on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 09:57:30 PM EST

Re: Deep Thought (none / 0)

huh?

by BooMan on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 10:23:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Seriously OT re: Mukasey (none / 0)

Mukasey Collapses While Giving Speech In DC.

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 at 11:36:29 PM EST

Deep Thought | 24 comments (24 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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