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On Rick Warren

by BooMan
Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 04:16:35 PM EST

I don't care about the politics of it, which may be beneficial to Obama's legislative goals; I care that inviting gay-bashing preacherman Rick Warren to do the inauguration invocation is gratuitous and mean-spirited. This decision is a needless insult to every gay person in the country and to all those that support gay rights. Obama will be roundly and loudly criticized for this decision, and rightly so. He should listen to what so many of his supporters will be saying about this. Obama says he values those with the ability to listen. If he hears, he will reverse this decision and apologize for hurting good people for no good reason.

Update [2008-12-17 16:41:5 by BooMan]:

People For the American Way 'Profoundly Disappointed' that Rick Warren Will Give Invocation
People For the American Way President Kathryn Kolbert responded today to the news that Rev. Rick Warren of Saddleback Church will deliver the invocation at the presidential inauguration of Barack Obama:
It is a grave disappointment to learn that pastor Rick Warren will give the invocation at the inauguration of Barack Obama.
Pastor Warren, while enjoying a reputation as a moderate based on his affable personality and his church's engagement on issues like AIDS in Africa, has said that the real difference between James Dobson and himself is one of tone rather than substance. He has recently compared marriage by loving and committed same-sex couples to incest and pedophilia. He has repeated the Religious Right's big lie that supporters of equality for gay Americans are out to silence pastors. He has called Christians who advance a social gospel Marxists. He is adamantly opposed to women having a legal right to choose an abortion.
I'm sure that Warren's supporters will portray his selection as an appeal to unity by a president who is committed to reaching across traditional divides. Others may explain it as a response to Warren inviting then-Senator Obama to speak on AIDS and candidate Obama to appear at a forum, both at his church. But the sad truth is that this decision further elevates someone who has in recent weeks actively promoted legalized discrimination and denigrated the lives and relationships of millions of Americans.
Rick Warren gets plenty of attention through his books and media appearances. He doesn't need or deserve this position of honor. There is no shortage of religious leaders who reflect the values on which President-elect Obama campaigned and who are working to advance the common good.

On Rick Warren | 38 comments (38 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: On Rick Warren (4.00 / 3)

Once he got the nomination his hearing acuity declined. And took another step down after the election.

by Heart of the Rockies on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 04:24:21 PM EST

Re: On Rick Warren (4.00 / 2)

yeah, this is a really lame-ass move on obama's part.
smell the change: it smells like rick warren helping to deny rights to gay people.

i can think of a whole bunch of other people who would be better (and nowhere near as bloated and ugly as the rickster: where does he get his fitness tips from, jabba the Hutt?)

John Mccain Called his wife WHAT??

by brendan on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 04:26:49 PM EST

Re: On Rick Warren (4.00 / 5)

It's not just the gays this diminishes. It's everybody who works to resist the wingnut drive to turn America into a Taliban-style theocracy. Haven't we had enough of this shit, and these shits, yet? I hope this report is wrong. Even Clinton didn't sink this low.

FDR's response to progressive demands: "I agree. Now go out and make me do it."

by DaveW on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 04:28:19 PM EST

Obama's Outreach Effort (4.00 / 2)

Obama, McCain Joint Appearance at Rick Warren's Church

Two years ago, Warren stirred controversy by inviting Obama to speak at a Saddleback AIDS conference. But while conservatives were furious at Warren for reaching out to a pro-choice Democrat, Obama's appearance was part of a larger outreach effort to religious leaders, relationships that the Illinois senator has cultivated since he was elected in 2004.

"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."

by Oui on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 04:30:15 PM EST

Re: Obama's Outreach Effort (none / 1)

Funny how he has never once - NOT ONCE - reached out to American Muslim religious leaders. Come to think of it, he has never once reached out to American Muslims of any sort.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 04:41:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Outreach Effort (none / 0)

Have you seen this? She was Obama's Muslim outreach director in Michigan. But the real story is how Blue America differs from Red America. Her district is 2% Muslim and she won it anyway (with the endorsement of her Jewish predecessor).

by BooMan on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 05:01:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Outreach Effort (none / 0)

I think most American Muslims would be surprised to hear that he had a Muslim outreach director anywhere, although only a fool would fail to have one in Michigan. Most Muslims did not feel the love but rather felt slighted. What they remember is that he did not enter a mosque, did not address a Muslim organization, when people wearing Muslim dress sat where they would be on camera during his speech they were asked to move, and while he consistently - and very correctly - denied being Muslim himself, he let the implication hang in the air that there was something wrong with being Muslim.

And just for the sake of accuracy, 2% of her district is Arab, which does not necessarily mean they are Muslim. A significant percentage of Arabs are not Muslim, and the number of non-Muslim Arab-Americans is disproportionate. And by the way, Obama also slighted Arab-Americans quite severely.

And for the record, I am sure YOU know this, but there is no natural enmity between Muslims and Jews. On the contrary, Jews, Christians, and Muslims have lived together peacefully for centuries, and still do in some places, despite the pressures brought on by Zionism. Intermarriage with Christians and Jews is explicitly permitted in the Qur'an, and has historically not been as unusual as people might think, especially in places like Iraq, the Levant, and North Africa. Islam does not support anything but respectful and even brotherly relations among adherents to the three religions. The Qur'an has a number of passages that are explicitly clear about this, and there are also Hadith that clearly support this kind of relationship.

by Hurria (Muslawia@gmail.com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 02:20:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Rick Warren (4.00 / 3)

Warren was recently on Hannity where he said it was ok for us to assassinate someone like Ahmedinejad...and used the bible to justify this. Preemptive assassination basically for people he 'thinks' are threats to us. As a so called religious leader this is so beyond horrifying that he shouldn't be able to show his face anywhere and certainly not to be even considered to speak at any president's inauguration.

My thoughts about Pastor Ricky aren't really fit to print.

'Poverty is the worst form of violence'--Gandhi

by chocolate ink on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 04:54:15 PM EST

Re: On Rick Warren (4.00 / 4)

This cuts too close to the bone for me.

I grew up "behind the Orange Curtain" (as I like to refer to Orange County, CA). My mother still lives there, and every Sunday gets loaded up with another dose of venom from Warren and his ilk.

I made the decision a few years ago to no longer have her in my life. Family Values, indeed.

by keres on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 05:14:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Rick Warren (4.00 / 4)

I don't live in Orange County..but a nice very red part on California-Bakersfield area...anyone who jokes about good old california being so liberal hasn't lived in various parts of the deep red areas.

Anyone who think Warren is more moderate than say Pat Robertson hasn't been paying attention.(if I remember right Robertson called for the assassination of Huge Chavez...nice religious leaders we have in this country)

No one should be allowed to speak at an inauguration that actively promotes discrimination(even hatred)to any group of americans. Family Values indeed keres.

'Poverty is the worst form of violence'--Gandhi

by chocolate ink on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 05:35:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Rick Warren (4.00 / 2)

I know the deep red areas of California all too well. My last home in the US was 25 miles east of Redding.

No one should be allowed to speak at an inauguration that actively promotes discrimination(even hatred)to any group of americans.

Spot f%cking on.

by keres on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 05:55:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I went to grad school in Irvine, so... (none / 1)

I know something of how you feel about being behind the Orange Curtain. Those people are hatemongers.

I'm sorry you no longer have a relationship with your mom; just leave enough room for her to recognize a few things later on and get back with you. There is always hope.

An untypical Negro

http://thisblksistaspage.wordpress.com

by blksista (gab1954@gmail.com) on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 09:14:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I went to grad school in Irvine, so... (none / 0)

I went to UCI straight out of High School, but dropped out after 2 1/2 years when I couldn't afford it any longer.

I appreciate your comments about leaving room for my mother to grow. Life is full of surprises.

by keres on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 04:26:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Rick Warren (4.00 / 4)

Someone is just damned tone deaf. It is shit like this, albeit on the surface what would appear to be only a small thing, that really makes me wonder sometimes what "change" is really going to mean going forward. I don't want to read too much into it, but it certainly gives me pause as to how much different things are going to be if we continue to lend credibility and legitimacy to people who, basically, are just purveyors of hate.

We've been fed hate and fear now on a 24-7 basis for the last eight years. Is it too much to ask that we make some kind of tangible attempt to turn away from this mentality given how much we have lost and how many people have died because of it.

This just makes me sad. And a little angry.

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity"

by MikeInOhio on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 05:22:46 PM EST

Re: On Rick Warren (4.00 / 3)

NSS: No Shit, Sherlock

Obama had to have approved -- he continues to dis - appoint:

where's our candy for working our A$$es off on his behalf?

OTOH

at the very least, the Pastor Warren pick to do the Invocation should put to rest the wingnuts' speculation that Barack Hussein Obama will take the oath on a Koran....that he's Muslim...born in Kenya and ineligible. The Warren Stamp of Approval stands against all those working to stop Obama taking office.

Justice Kennedy rejects 2 more challenges to Obama -
Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy has rejected two more efforts to get the court to consider whether President-elect Barack Obama is eligible to take office.
Kennedy on Wednesday denied without comment an appeal by Philip J. Berg, a Pennsylvania attorney, that claims Obama is either a citizen of Kenya or Indonesia and is ineligible to be president because he is not a "natural-born citizen" of the U.S. as required by the Constitution. Another appeal from California, based on Berg's claims, also was denied.

That said, stand by for more Obama insults. For me, it began with giving Hillary SoS - the top dog post.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 05:39:04 PM EST

Re: On Rick Warren (4.00 / 3)

I would be less bothered by Obama's choices if they veered leftward as often as they have tended rightward.
We could just rationalize it as, "win some, lose some." But from what I've seen so far, he has come down on the conservative/status quo side of things more often than not.

But I still harbor hope that he is taking a brilliant, and perhaps very effective approach by co-opting the opposition in a way that neuters them and the net result is a more progressive society.

by eagleye on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 06:21:43 PM EST

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 1)

A commenter at Kos offers the following from Salon.com:

"This time, though, the decision to get involved with Saddleback was actually not Obama's. The Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies, run by the House and Senate, put together the program for the swearing-in ceremony."

by eagleye on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 04:37:02 PM EST

Link (none / 1)

.
Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies

"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."

by Oui on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 04:46:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 1)

It's a bummer to see a nut case like Rick Warren get national airtime and the legitimacy that comes with it through his participation in Obama's swearing-in.

The congressional committee that made the selection should have considered that including Warren in the ceremony raises the possibility of a significant gay protest, messing up what otherwise could be a very positive event on Jan. 20.

by eagleye on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 04:59:16 PM EST

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 0)

IMHO, Inclusion necessarily means doing stuff with ridiculous evil bastards fairly often. I think we'll have to get used to it.

Declaring the bottom is the only way back up..

by anarchronarchist (mincers (-at-) hotmail (-dot-) com) on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 05:14:55 PM EST

Re: On Rick Warren (4.00 / 3)

It's one thing to "work with them" and another to give them legitimacy and a position of prominence.

Go back 40 years and Warren would have been using the Bible to justify segregation. The analogy is hardly a stretch, and couldn't be more glaringly and painfully ironic.

by keres on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 05:31:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 0)

'Give them'?

This guy didn't come out of nowhere, now.

Declaring the bottom is the only way back up..

by anarchronarchist (mincers (-at-) hotmail (-dot-) com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 08:33:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 0)

Yes he already has his throngs, and they are welcome to raise him to the level of prominence he so clearly has. That's their (almost exclusively Republican) choice. So why does a Democrat, and in some sense the Democrat, need to give this guy even greater caché?

by keres on Fri Dec 19th, 2008 at 04:51:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 0)

There needs to be someone at the wheel of the ship in order to turn it. At least he is coming along on points, A, B and C. I am sure the other guys who wanna play America's Pastor aren't quite as broadminded.. Of course there is that guy who just came out denying hell.

Would he do?

Pastors are by definition nuts or con artists, so relax. It's all lessor evils, anyhow.

Declaring the bottom is the only way back up..

by anarchronarchist (mincers (-at-) hotmail (-dot-) com) on Fri Dec 19th, 2008 at 07:10:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 0)

"...and are working to advance the common good." What a novel concept!

We need to push for Progressive change, now more than ever.

by keepinon (jaukkuri@sbcglobal.net) on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 05:24:22 PM EST

Re: On Rick Warren (4.00 / 2)

Rick Warren is most certainly not trying to "advance the common good." Unless the common good (still) does not include me and my family.

Terrance Heath
Washington, DC
www.republicoft.com

by TerranceDC on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 05:26:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 0)

Terrance: You misunderstood, I think. I was trying to support your closing line that there are many clergy who could have been picked that are working to advance the common good. "Common good" is a phrase I like to use when trying to sway some of my conservative friends. It is a phrase that seems to have lost favor in this country since about the time of Ronald Reagan IMO. I'm hoping that the phrase, and more importantly what it implies becomes once again a frequently used measuring stick to evaluate the validity of new government policy. I would argue that if it does not advance the common good, it is not sustainable on its face and should not be adopted. I hope that explains my comment. I meant no offense.

keepinon

We need to push for Progressive change, now more than ever.

by keepinon (jaukkuri@sbcglobal.net) on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 08:17:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 1)

Obama finally insults a group with money and now all the sudden is politically correct to "whine!"

Stray Roots Message Board,Thus far unmoderated! Dameocrat Blog

by StrayRoots (dameocrat@STUFFTOREMOVEpeacemail.com) on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 06:30:42 PM EST

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 0)

I can't help but quote one of my favorite bands...

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...."

These people don't seem to understand the growing dissatifaction the public has with their elected officials...as my 90 year old mother says "...its time for a good old fashioned revolution"...

Its come to this...sigh...

tapeats

by tapeats on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 11:27:05 PM EST

Is Obama being bigoted in his choice (none / 0)

of bigots? Where are the racists and anti-semites?? I want some Farrahkan and Metzgers in the crowd!

by JayGR on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 12:00:55 AM EST

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 0)

Questions:

How many on the Left are particularly religious and give that much of a crap about the invocation anyway? It will happen. They will wait through it.
How many on the far (religious) Right are particularly thrilled that Warren is essentially endorsing the Obama presidency?

The man is a nut job but this can have a marvelous effect of disarming those on the Right and lowering the level of rhetoric to a level that good shit actually gets done.

If he invites Warren and his clan in to write actual legislation, then I'll worry.

And not to be dismissive of the concerns of the G&L community, but I fully expect this administration to do far more for them than any in the last 16+ years.

by Andrew Longman on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 12:03:27 AM EST

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 0)

All I know is that it is painful to see this asshole validated. It has a political purpose, but it isn't right and it wasn't necessary. And that's all I'm trying to say. Obama shouldn't needlessly hurt people, especially his supporters. He should reverse this decision because it is the right thing to do.

by BooMan on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 12:41:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 0)

Assholes are like him are in the game. They validate themselves. They have contributors by the millions and their own TV shows. Pissing them off only firms their resolve.

Letting him him give an invocation is a very cheap way to steal their wind and sends a message to Warren's supporters that Obama may just not be the anti-Chirst.

Warren is like trash on the side of the road. Ignoring it won't make it go away. But pointing out that trash can be in better places than on the side of the road might put it in a place that is less offensive.

by Andrew Longman on Fri Dec 19th, 2008 at 12:36:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 0)

Sure, let's collect up the trash floating around on the interstate and put on the Washington Mall with an audience of a billion. That'll pretty up the joint. That'll discourage littering.

I said at the outset that I don't care about the politics. I concede the politics may be good. I still think this is wrong.

by BooMan on Fri Dec 19th, 2008 at 01:23:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 0)

Total fail. Not happy.

Recommended by Hideo Kojima

by robertdsc on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 01:19:59 AM EST

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 0)

I won't be watching....ministers don't really get much of my attention as I believe in separating state and religion. If Obama is making a move to bring in the conservatives then he'll find that many more moderates and liberals will find another candidate next time.

by donmyers on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 04:08:46 AM EST

Re: On Rick Warren (none / 0)

Maybe Pastor Jeremiah Wright saw more deeply into candidate Obama than we like to admit. By their fruits, you will know them. Hmmmm. Some of O's first harvest appear a bit shabby.

Suppose you scrub your ethical skin until it shines, but inside there is no music, then what? Kabir

by Dongi 2 on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 07:25:20 AM EST

I'm shocked, shocked (none / 0)

He promised to be centrist, and he is being centrist.

It's shocking.

by dataguy on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 08:18:33 AM EST

On Rick Warren | 38 comments (38 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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