Booman Tribune

Harold Ickes Can Bite Me

by BooMan
Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 03:35:47 PM EST

Harold Ickes can bite me:

A top Hillary Clinton adviser on Saturday boldly predicted his candidate would lock down the nomination before the August convention by definitively winning over party insiders and officials known as superdelegates, claiming the number of state elections won by rival Barack Obama would be “irrelevant” to their decision.

The claims no doubt will escalate the war of words between the campaigns, as Obama continues to argue superdelegates should vote the way of their districts. But the special class of delegates, which make up about 20 percent of the total delegate haul, are not bound to vote the way of their states and districts, as pledged delegates are.

Obama leads handily in the pledged delegate count and has won more states but trails Clinton in superdelegates, making them potential and controversial deadlock-breakers if the race ends up a dead heat come convention time.

Harold Ickes, a 40-year party operative charged with winning over superdelegates for the Clinton campaign, made no apologies on Saturday for the campaign’s convention strategy.

“We’re going to win this nomination,” Ickes said, adding that they would do so soon after the last contest on June 7 in Puerto Rico. “You’re not going to see this go to the convention floor.”

Ickes predicted Clinton and Obama would run “neck and neck” in the remaining states and that there would be a “minuscule amount of difference” between the two in pledged delegates.

But he said superdelegates would determine the outcome and side in larger numbers for Clinton, as they “have a sense of what it takes to get elected.”

Even though averages of head-to-head polls on RealClearPolitics.com show Obama beating presumptive GOP nominee John McCain in a general election and Clinton losing, the Clinton camp is stressing the electability argument.

Ickes said superdelegates must “exercise their best judgment” about who can win the White House.

In essence, he argued the party’s 795 superdelegates (Connecticut Independent-Democrat Sen. Joe Lieberman recently was stripped of his superdelegate status) were in a better position to assess electability and suitability for the presidency than party regulars who will attend the national convention in late August as pledged delegates.

He also said Michigan and Florida, which voted for Clinton, should have delegates seated at the convention even though the national party stripped them for holding early primaries.

Obama Campaign Manager David Plouffe on Saturday blasted Clinton for the strategy.

“The Clinton campaign just said they have two options for trying to win the nomination — attempting to have superdelegates overturn the will of the Democratic voters or change the rules they agreed to at the eleventh hour in order to seat non-existent delegates from Florida and Michigan,” he said in a statement.

“The Clinton campaign should focus on winning pledged delegates as a result of elections, not these say-or-do-anything-to-win tactics that could undermine Democrats’ ability to win the general election.”

Many top Democrats, among them House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, have said superdelegates should follow the will of voters expressed through primaries and caucuses and not trump those votes.

The Clintons clearly have no intention of maintaining their dignity.



Display:
How can they think that Democrats will fall in line and vote for Hill if they overturn the popular choice? Don't they realize that part of Obama's appeal is that he is NOT Billary?

If she overwhelmingly wins these last contests then, fine; let the Superdelegates make it look unanimous. But, if she continues to lose the endorcement of regular Democratic voters... reversing that will be the death of the Democratic Party.

It's on life support now and ignoring the will of the people would pull the plug.

by sjct on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 04:15:04 PM EST
"Ickes said superdelegates must "exercise their best judgment" about who can win the White House."

Ickes is parroting Howard Dean

BTW, Ickes voted to strip Florida and Michigan delegates being seated. (see coment in my diary on Pelosi).

I can't help but feel there's gonna be a fight leading to a damaging rift in the Party.

Dean, disagreeing with Pelosi and Gore only adds to the confusion.

I agree with Tad Devine super-delegates should back-off.

and let the campaigns be governed by the rules.

Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama, and their campaigns, are pressuring superdelegates to pledge support to them before Democratic voters in the remaining primaries and caucuses have made their decisions. But Democratic leaders need to let the voters sort out which one of these two remarkable people will lead our party and, we hope, the nation.

After listening to the voters, the superdelegates can do what the Democratic Party's rules originally envisioned. They can ratify the results of the primaries and caucuses in all 50 states by moving as a bloc toward the candidate who has proved to be the strongest in the contest that matters -- not the inside game of the delegate hunt, but the outside contest of ideas and inspiration, where hope can battle with experience and voters can make the right and best choice for our party and our future.

 

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 04:25:00 PM EST
moveon.org has jumped into the superdelegate fray:

MoveOn Jumps Into Battle Over Super-Delegates

"The superdelegates are under lots of pressure right now to come out for one candidate or the other," reads the petition from MoveOn, which has endorsed Obama. "We urgently need to encourage them to let the voters decide between Clinton and Obama -- and then to support the will of the people."

MoveOn says that if they get 200,000 signatures this week, they'll publish the petition as an ad in USA Today.

link

as of yesterday afternoon, they had over 257,000 signatures.

you may sign the petition here if you're so inclined.

the revolution will not be televised...

by dada on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 04:40:42 PM EST
a hot winter?

Sebelius calls out Clinton.

from the Obama campaign: it appears Governor Kathleen Sebelius has called on Senator Clinton and her campaign surrogates to stop discounting the votes of red state Democrats.

In Wisconsin, The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has endorsed Obama and is reporting

Clinton scales back campaign schedule here

"The move suggests the campaign does not think it can overtake rival Barack Obama here. Obama has already campaigned in the state Tuesday night, Wednesday, Friday, and today. He also has single events planned for Sunday (Kaukauna) and Monday (Beloit). "

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 04:58:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tried to go to the Eau Claire speech by Obama today, but only arrived two hours early, which turned out to be about an hour too late. Ended up going x-country skiing instead.

Kelly McCullough - author of WebMage, Cybermancy, CodeSpell, and MythOS - ACE (Penguin)
by KMc (http://www.kellymccullough.com/mail.html) on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 05:22:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
methinks clinton is writing WI off: Obama Outspending Hillary 4-1 On Ads In Madison and Milwaukee.

probably losing the ground game/gotv as well.

off to texas and ohio they go...in search of karl no doubt.

the revolution will not be televised...

by dada on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 05:04:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dada, too heavt.  they've downloaded his playbook.

Matthew Yglesias notes the Sebelius call out in full. more like a smackdown

Sebelius: We count

The governor of Kansas fired back against the Clinton campaign's habit of deriding entire states where they happen to lose elections:

    "Senator Clinton and her campaign surrogates keep deriding Senator Obama's wins in red states by saying that her victories in the 'big states' are the ones that matter," Governor Sebelius said. " The right Democrat, like Barack Obama, can carry red states, just like the 14 Democratic governors elected in states won by George Bush in 2004. We can't tell people their votes don't matter and then expect their support against John McCain in November. Senator Obama is reaching to Independents and Republicans because they desperately want to change our politics. I hope Senator Clinton will follow his lead and stop dismissing Democrats that don't live in New York or California."

good on her.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 05:46:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]


the revolution will not be televised...
by dada on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 05:57:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Absolutely! I've never heard of anything so dumb, and yet the Clinton campaign does this over and over again. Enough!

Can't hear ya, Peach!
by AP on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 06:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
can we spell desperate?

Here's another dumb quote: (via TPM)

"Winning Democratic primaries is not a qualification or a sign of who can win the general election. If it were, every nominee would win because every nominee wins Democratic primaries."  Mark Penn, Clinton's chief strategist.

does anyone think this guy understood what he said

or why he's being out-campaigned?

Thanks Mark for alerting us that should your candidate become the nominee we'll be screwed.

you go Obama.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 08:31:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's an AP report that leaves me speechless. The GOP ain't the only ones who have mastered the art of High Shameless Cognitive Dissonance:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Harold Ickes, a top adviser to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign who voted to strip Michigan and Florida of their delegates last year, now is arguing against the very penalty he helped pass.

In a conference call Saturday, the longtime Democratic Party member contended the DNC should reconsider its tough sanctions on the two states, which held early contests in violation of party rules. He said millions of voters in Michigan and Florida would be otherwise disenfranchised -- before acknowledging moments later that he had favored the sanctions.

Ickes explained that his different position essentially is due to the different hats he wears as both a DNC member and a Clinton adviser in charge of delegate counting. Clinton won the primary vote in Michigan and Florida, and now she wants those votes to count.

"There's been no change," Ickes said. "I wasn't acting as an agent for Mrs. Clinton. We stripped them of all their delegates in order to prevent campaigns to campaign in those states. ...Those were the rules, and we thought we had an obligation to enforce them."

Am I missing something here?

FDR's response to progressive demands: "I agree. Now go out and make me do it."

by DaveW on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 04:54:37 PM EST


~~~THIS SPACE FOR RENT~~~
by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 05:33:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I just love you!

That just made Mr. AP LOL--after hearing me LOL--and almost NOTHING makes him guffaw like that.

OK, I'm going to breathe deeply now. Inhale. Exhale. Inhale. Exhale.

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 06:33:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
this just made me laugh so much....you got it nailed....thanks for this...Maxine is the best cartoon that is ever around....thank again and she makes the point....
by BrendaStewart (stormyweather1@hotmail.com) on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 07:51:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I found this hilarious:

But he said superdelegates would determine the outcome and side in larger numbers for Clinton, as they "have a sense of what it takes to get elected."

I never knew that the best way to show that you can get elected is by consistently losing elections. Silly me.

The Underground Railroad
by Oscar In Louisville on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 04:55:13 PM EST
Oh, but you can! Just ask Mark Penn:

Winning Democratic primaries is not a qualification or a sign of who can win the general election.

See? There you have it.

Maybe you need more Merlot...! (How are you feeling, anyway?)

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 06:39:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm mean, like Penn said, "Carter won the nominiation in '80 and Mondale in '84."  So Clinton is right on track.

~~~THIS SPACE FOR RENT~~~
by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 06:43:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's hard to believe that this mindless dolt gets paid by anyone. That by itself is reason not to vote for her.

Can't hear ya, Peach!
by AP on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 07:02:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Much better - the swelling went down mostly and I can walk (slowly) without too much pain. All should be well by Monday, hopefully.

The Underground Railroad
by Oscar In Louisville on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 09:58:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, apparently the best way to get elected is by pissing off the voters through ignoring their wishes and having people who "know better" decide the election for them.

You know, kind of like the way it happened in 2000.

I for one welcome our new Twitter overlords. @Omir55

by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 07:09:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Oui on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 05:00:46 PM EST
And Harold Ickes actually said all of this stuff out loud? "On the record", and all that?

What else do you suppose Team Hillary is planning? I'm thinking shark with frickin' lasers on them...

by Renee in Ohio on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 05:14:42 PM EST
Then we can definitely say hello to President McInsane.

~~~THIS SPACE FOR RENT~~~
by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 04:19:12 PM EST
just watch these assholes fuck it up. They are absolutely disgraceful. AND, they will cost us the election. Just watch.
by billjpa (billjpa@aol.com) on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 06:01:13 PM EST
Like any three y.o., if they can't have it, no one can.

Can't hear ya, Peach!
by AP on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 06:40:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The more I think about this, the more I think the delegate stuff out of the Clinton camp may prove a fatal mistake. It all depends on how far this tiff gets into the wider public consciousness. If it becomes widespread, I think it will make people just want this nomination process to end sooner than later. It's getting too ugly and divisive, and promises much worse if it goes into the convention.

The other shoe: if Obama wins WI and OH or TX, it will probably end now and the nastiness can stop. If Clinton wins TX and OH, the campaign is likely to go on right to the convention floor, and a fight over the FL and MI delegates and the supers can only hurt Dem prospects in the general election. I think the Clinton campaign has opened a door that will slam them in the ass: a vote for Clinton is a vote against the electability of whoever ultimately wins the nomination.

FDR's response to progressive demands: "I agree. Now go out and make me do it."

by DaveW on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 06:55:31 PM EST
Not long ago I asked if anyone knew what Clark was doing.  Well, here it is from the Wisc JS

SATURDAY, Feb. 16, 2008, 4:40 p.m.
By Greg J. Borowski
Wesley Clark touring state for Clinton
As Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Rodham Clinton visited Kenosha this afternoon, retired Gen. Wesley Clark toured the state on Clinton's behalf, making stops in Madison, Waukesha and Milwaukee.

Clark, who sought the party's nomination in 2004, said Clinton was an easy choice, citing her "experience, judgment (and) character."

"She's just the best person in this race," Clark said in a telephone interview.

Clark said Clinton would be able to go toe-to-toe with Republican John McCain, who has all but officially won the GOP nomination, including on national security issues. And Clark declared Clinton's strategy for withdrawing troops from Iraq better than that of rival Barack Obama.

"It's easy in a campaign to create policy positions and put the words out there," Clark said. "You've got to look at what people have done."

Clark said he would be joining Clinton at tonight's state Democratic party dinner.

by Heart of the Rockies on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 07:27:38 PM EST
I notice a shift in the argument, away from a claim of Hillary's legitimacy as the rightful Democratic nominee to a far older argument.

"..the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. .. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked.." - Goering
by colinski on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 08:45:54 PM EST


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