Booman Tribune ~ A Progressive Community

Let's Talk Electability

by BooMan
Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 10:33:18 AM EST

I know that polls don't mean a whole lot this far out from the November elections, but the following Rasmussen polls show that Obama is currently a much, much stronger candidate against John McCain than Hillary Clinton.

National:

Obama: 46%
McCain: 43%
McCain: 49%
Clinton: 43%

Pennsylvania:

Obama: 49%
McCain: 39%
McCain: 44%
Clinton: 42%

Oregon:

Obama: 49%
McCain: 40%
McCain: 45%
Clinton: 42%

Colorado:

Obama: 46%
McCain: 39%
McCain: 49%
Clinton: 35%

I actually think McCain is doomed against either candidate. But these polls show that Clinton is a much bigger risk. There seems to be no way, for example, that she could win a state like Colorado. And that could doom the senate campaign of Mark Udall, who is polling even with his wingnut opponent.

Like most observers from both political parties, Straayer said Udall should be considered the favorite to win the race. But a Rasmussen poll released Thursday shows the two neck-and-neck, with 44 percent of voters saying they'd favor Udall, compared to 43 percent for Schaffer.

Meanwhile, Grover Norquist is trying to use Jedi Mind Tricks to convince Democrats that Obama is a "shady Chicago socialist."

Let's Talk Electability | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Let's Talk Electability (none / 1)

Durbin and Schumer are on Meet the Press talking up their home state senate buddies.

by BooMan on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 10:34:20 AM EST

Re: Let's Talk Electability (none / 1)

In the nationwide poll, it's looking good too:

GALLUP Daily Tracking: Feb. 13-15 results

Obama takes significant lead for first time

Clinton 42% Obama 49%

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 10:36:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's Talk Electability (none / 0)

That's great news. If he can pull out solid wins in Wisconsin and Hawaii, he'll be in great shape heading into March 4th, with two solid weeks of campaigning to go. I'm worried about WI, though. Hopefully it won't be as close as these polls say. And I'm trying not to imagine what a Clinton victory would mean.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 11:19:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's Talk Electability (none / 1)

take some comfort about WI.

The Clintons have scaled back their campaign schedule,here and have 'picked up their marbles and gone home' after Bill, appearing in a cow pavillion, scolds Wisconsin.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 11:37:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's Talk Electability (none / 1)

Wow, Massa Clinton ain't none too happy, sho'nuff. What an ass. Any idea how this is getting played in the local press? I read the big paper in Milwaukee endorsed Obama, and the Madison paper slammed the Clintons for their "Change begins March 4th" comment.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 11:58:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's Talk Electability (none / 0)

Ha! A socialist who takes corporate funding.

Oh, there you are, Perry. -Phineas -SLB-

by boran2 (blogistan@yahoo.com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 10:50:27 AM EST

Re: Let's Talk Electability (none / 1)

he doesn't accept corporate PAC money. What do you want him to do? Return all checks from people at that management level and above at a corporation?

by BooMan on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 10:54:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's Talk Electability (none / 1)

a TPM link.

how about that McCain goading Obama on public financing?

Obama should just say No to that. He already has public financing.

Such hypocrisy? McCain has all those fat cats, Freedom Watch and others ready to spend millions. And also, he turned to Bush advisers who raised millions for the 2000 and 2004 campaigns.

See that hug? gimme a break.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 11:08:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's Talk Electability (none / 0)

Indeed. Kos had it right here: Take the slight hit in the press on public financing, but hit back by pointing to the million or so donors who've given to him, as opposed to the three or four McCain's got.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 11:20:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's Talk Electability (none / 0)

there's another piece on this public financing stuff that Obama made no pledge with McCain. McCain is having dreams.

this business about 'McCain is a man of his word' can't be seriously considered given his flip-flop on waterboarding.... It's no longer torture. He voted not to ban.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 12:09:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's Talk Electability (none / 1)

Well, fortunately, the press seems to be picking up the McCain-as-Flip-Flopper meme. I figured they'd play him up as the awesome maverick we've been told about throughout his six- or seven-hundred years in Congress, but they seem to have gotten religion on that garbage.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 12:23:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's Talk Electability (none / 1)

here's their response to the Will.i.am "Yes We Can" video.

Watch this video: No, You can't

(h/t; Obsidian))

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 12:40:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's Talk Electability (none / 0)

And yet at the same time a member of Al Capone's gang. Remarkable man.

by Bob In Pacifica on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 11:48:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's Talk Electability (none / 0)

I heard that he drives the getaway car.

Oh, there you are, Perry. -Phineas -SLB-

by boran2 (blogistan@yahoo.com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 06:03:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Who knew? (none / 0)

I wasn't aware that Norquist was a Democratic superdelegate.

~~~THIS SPACE FOR RENT~~~

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 11:23:01 AM EST

Re: Who knew? (none / 0)

President Bush demanded it be buried in one of the war funding bills and the Dems in Congress caved. Of course it meant they had to hijack the DNC to follow through, but anything dear leader wanted.

by maryb2004 on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 11:34:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who knew? (none / 0)

he's a superduperdelegate

but his secret powers involve bathtub drownings... hard to use that one for good....

Join Soulforce-seeking Justice for God's GLBT children.

by its simple IF you ignore the complexity (simplecomplexity AT mac.com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 01:18:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who knew? (none / 0)

l didn't see that in the linked article.

surely you jest. if it's true, l'd assume they can toss his ass just like they did liebeman's.

the revolution will not be televised...

by dada on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 05:48:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's Talk Electability (none / 0)

I think we have to give Mark Penn the last word on this electability issue:

Two days later, after Obama's eighth straight victory, Penn told reporters: "Winning Democratic primaries is not a qualification or a sign of who can win the general election. If it were, every nominee would win because every nominee wins Democratic primaries."

So let's get the superdelegates to vote for Edwards. He won some primaries, back in 2004. That's good enough for me.

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

by Steven D on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 11:38:11 AM EST

HRC campaign -- screw "the village" (none / 0)

Doesn't this say something about how the Clinton campaign views us? Penn thinks we're stupid.

And if that doesn't work, it's more of the same -- we've all been scammed by Obama-mania. In other words, we're all deluded, i.e., stupid -- again.

Rather than convince us of the merits of a HRC candidacy, they've relied on what Peter Berger calls nihilation. And if that doesn't work, screw "the village" and take the nomination by tapping into the good-old-boy network.

"..the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. .. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked.." - Goering

by colinski on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 01:29:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Only poll that counts is in Nov (none / 0)

May we please choose a winner this time--it's so damn important.

This column says it's better to choose the person who best represents what you believe a president should do for the country. I tend to agree. Polls can be so misleading--as the author says here, vote for "who you believe will be the best president."

...we can toss around poll numbers that claim one thing or another about the general election. But as we've learned this year more than ever, polls can't be trusted (think Clinton versus Obama in New Hampshire last month). And history agrees: In March of 2004, John Kerry was slaughtering Bush in the general election polls; in July of 1988, former Governor Mike Dukakis was trouncing Bush the Elder. If you haven't heard of Dukakis, take that as an indication of just how unreliable polls can be - especially those conducted months in advance.
SNIP
With all these persuasive arguments swimming around, we can't be sure which holds the most water, what will occur in the nine months before the election to alter these electability equations, or whose theory will bear fruit come November. As such, Lengle admitted, "Basing your vote on electability is a dicey operation."

So I beg you: Do not vote for who you believe to be the most electable; vote for who you believe will make the best president.

http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2008/02/12/Opinion/Nicky.Berman. Trying.To.Find.A.Winner-3202713.shtml

by jawbone on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 02:58:31 PM EST

Re: Only poll that counts is in Nov (none / 0)

No offense to my school's newspaper or the author, but I highly doubt that is true. The DP is known for getting significant facts wrong from time to time, and I don't recall Kerry ever leading Bush by a substantial margin 4 years ago.

by PsiFighter37 on Sun Feb 17th, 2008 at 03:25:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's Talk Electability | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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