Booman Tribune ~ A Progressive Community

Its not race. It IS GENDER!!!

by anna in philly
Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 03:39:28 PM EST

From The Washington Post - Chris Cillizza;

"The Gender Gap: For nine states covered by exit polling data purchased by The Post, the gender gap on the Democratic side showed up in full force. Taking out the two candidates' home states, the exit polls reveal a vote split clearly down gender lines. Obama won the male vote in all six of the seven non-native son/daughter states (he crushed Clinton by 39 points among men in Georgia) while she won men in Tennessee by three points. Among women, Clinton rolled to double-digit victories in five of the seven states; Obama won women in Georgia by a whopping 28 points thanks to his strength among black voters and beat Clinton by a single point among women in Missouri. The numbers in individual states were eye-popping -- Clinton did 27 points better among women than men in Massachusetts, 26 points better in California and 20 points better in New Jersey."

I really believe this proves my point that men are not as threatened by a well educated, articulate, half black man then they are by a strong white women.

Several people have insisted its the candidates themselves....but if that is true these discrepancies just would not be this high. Women arent stupid....if Hillary is that bad why are they voting for her in such large numbers?

Racism and sexism are alive and well in America.....Obama is benefitting as a black man who isnt coming off as that black while Hillary cant be seen as anything other than a woman.

Let me go even further....its ok for a black man to "act" white....its not ok for a woman to act manly...then she is a bitch.

And probably a lesbian.

And lets not forget women won the right to vote 50 years after black men did.

Im not writing this to get into a pissing match about which group is more likely to be penalized for who they are....there is plenty of hate to go around in all groups towards all groups....i just think its really interesting to look at the underlying things that are happening here....we need to dissect this stuff and get some understanding of it so we can fight it....self awareness is always a good first step.

It will be even more interesting to see how republicans handle these issues.

Its not race. It IS GENDER!!! | 16 comments (16 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Its not race. It IS GENDER!!! (none / 1)

I don't know. Hillary goes around actively reminding everyone she's a woman all the time, where Obama doesn't constantly present himself as a black man. How much has that contributed to the current atmosphere by reinforcing sexist stereotypes?

I've watched Hillary with the tears lately, and been disgusted because I can't be the only person sitting here thinking to myself what fun the Republican candidate can have with the footage of that for their campaign ads..."Does Hillary Clinton think the terrorists will give in to her tears?"

And that thing last fall where her campaign started crying that "all the boys ganged up on her" during the Philly debate didn't impress me much either, but that was because I thought of all the women who have gone before her and kept at it so she could be where he is today, and I felt like she was dishonoring them by using her gender and accusations of sexism as an excuse for her poor debate performance.

We all know what happened to the last presidential candidate who cried...wasn't his name Ed Muskie?

Anywho, that's my $0.02...and probably not even worth that much. :)

by CabinGirl on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 04:56:31 PM EST

Re: Its not race. It IS GENDER!!! (none / 0)

it is in obamas best interest not to remind people he is a black man.

Edible panties taste like crap.

by anna in philly (jrsygir1@aol.com) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 05:03:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And he doesn't need to (none / 1)

Just like when you look at Clinton and see a female, when you look at Obama, you kinda notice he's not Aryan material.

But that's okay, the Clinton's have gone out of their way to remind people that Obama's black...in case they forgot. Somehow.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 05:11:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its not race. It IS GENDER!!! (none / 0)

And Hillary has been wearing her ovaries on the outside for the same reason.

Just sayin'.

by CabinGirl on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 05:12:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And as I said yesterday (none / 1)

These extrapolations mean shit. I guess to pro-Clinton white women, it's threatening and heart-clutching and such, but I'm looking at this logically. If this was a race between Sen. Obama and Sen. Boxer, I'd be like, "Obama-who?" There's no way I'd vote for him over Boxer.

It's not gender, it's Hillary. It's no to a 3rd term. It's Clinton-fatigue. It's the '90s weren't all that great, they're only better than the '00s. It's playing racist politics and then blaming the target of those politics for it.

But you know what? When I'm reading women saying that they're voting for Clinton because she's a woman, it's stupid. Just as stupid as anyone saying they're voting for Obama because he's black.

I think that if any other white woman was running against Barack, it wouldn't even be a contest. He wouldn't have a chance. You can get into the Steinem whining of who is more oppressed (yawn)--which you did, no matter that half-attempt at a denial, or do the crazed NOW-NY thing, but don't even try to blame your candidates faults on a black man. Sen. Obama didn't make Sen. Clinton what she is today. Apparently, she's had 35 years of experience to do that.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 05:09:41 PM EST

Re: And as I said yesterday (none / 0)

first off i didnt vote for her because she is a woman....im glad i got the chance to vote for a woman...just like i was glad i got the chance to vote for a black man when jesse jackson ran in the dem primaries...

second....who is more oppressed is a damn good question....in my mind neither black man or white woman wins that contest.

3rd i was disgusted by the now-ny bullshit....totally embarrassed by it.

4th i wouldnt vote for boxer over obama....at least i dont think i would....id have to research her more just the way i researched obama whom i had barely heard of before the primaries.

5th where did i blame hillary's faults on obama? they both have plenty of faults.

6th who hillary clinton is today is exactly why i voted for her....its almost an intangible thing you feel inside....i wanted edwards....i had to choose between obama and hillary....i think either of them will make great presidents.....i personally feel hillary is stronger in personality, tears aside...and like my daughter said....hillary will fuck the republicans right up the ass.....obama will roast marshmallows with them around the campfire....i like the assfucking idea better.

7th...this wasnt really about me...its about all the women who voted for hillary....collectively....men are voting for obama and women are voting for hillary....if they are equal i guess you could explain this awat as an affinity for your own "kind" whatever that is....but according to you hillary is the devil incarnate...so why are so many women voting for her?

i "FEEL" like we are being told we are stupid for voting for hillary by people like you and others i read in the so called progressive blogosphere....read some of bitchphd's blogging on this subject....she is much more eloquent than i.

im still waiting for someone to objectively look at this and explain whats happening....what is it about the herds? form a sociological standpoint....whats happening here?

without running down hillary or spinning obama....can someone offer insight.

Edible panties taste like crap.

by anna in philly (jrsygir1@aol.com) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 07:27:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Devil incarnate? (none / 0)

That's a stretch. I'm sick and tired of people telling me that I've said horrible things about Clinton. That wasn't true. In fact, up until about the middle of Jan. I was still defending her as a woman, despite her racist politicking. I only recently said that I would not vote for her in the general and that was because of her racist politicking.

That out of the way, I keep saying the same thing. You can not say that men don't want a female leader, because this is Clinton we're talking about. As I've repeatedly said, if it were any other woman, it would be interesting to see. And you feel like you're being told you're stupid for voting for Clinton. As I've said above, I think anyone voting for Clinton just because she has ovaries is an idiot. Just like anyone voting for Obama because he has more melanin is an idiot. It's that simple.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 08:50:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Devil incarnate? (none / 0)

you havent really spoken to the issue

why are men voting for obama and women voting for hillary?

and as an aside....if hillary is so bad why does she lead in popular votes? what other woman could have gotten this far? you keep saying with any other woman it would be a different story.....what story would it be? the woman would be way ahead? with all these negatives why is she still viable?

here is the fact...more people are crossing the race line than are crossing the gender line.

im trying to understand why.

and will this translate to republicans.

if condoleeza rice was running against colin powell for the repub nomination....would republicans be more likely to cross the gender line.....the race is the same....if condoleeza was running against mccain how do you think things would break?

if condoleeza rice were running against hillary clinton in the general, would men stay home?

more women voted for bush then for either kerry or gore in the general....something i will never understand...has something changed?

Edible panties taste like crap.

by anna in philly (jrsygir1@aol.com) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 09:18:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's easy (none / 0)

I've read on the internets and heard too many women, so-called progressive women, who said that they'd vote for Rice just because she's a woman. There's no logic involved it's all simpleton solidarity. It's a sad state of affairs. I doubt Mrs. Merkel won because the female part of the German populace was feeling sisterly.

And yes, I honestly do believe that more men would for Rice if she were running against Obama. Powell, maybe not so much since there's a war going on. Politics aside, she's a smart woman and clearly has made her way on her own. She didn't come from rich parents or is married to a former president (at least legally ;P).

And here's a fact, that you seem to willfully ignore: The Clinton's choose to go the KKK route. That hurt them, especially among black women. But I've spoken to Asian, Middle Eastern and Latino people who were also disgusted by that. I talked to a Syrian guy at the mosque a few months back who said, "If they'd go after a group that has supported them like that, imagine what they'd do or say about people like us? Oh wait, we don't have to, they think that being Muslim is a smear." He chose Obama.

This isn't happening in a vacuum in other words. It's not as simplistic as you'd like to make it to be.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 10:31:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's easy (none / 0)

OK, I admit that when John Edwards was in the game I pretty much ignored all the b.s. the Clintonites and Obamaites were throwing at each other. To me it's just politics as usual. KKK? Did someone in the Clinton campaign cite the KKK?

ITMFA!

by librarylil (librarylil at g mail etc.) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 10:49:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's easy (none / 0)

ok evidently im not getting my point across.

im not trying to figure out what it is about them (the candidates)..im trying to figure out what it is about US (the larger voting public)....not us you and me individually....not specific random people you know or i know....the herd.....im talking about the herd.

understanding the herd is what im after.

i appreciate you are one of the few people who have bothered to discuss this issue....thanks.

i also must say that some of your comments have felt very sexist and patronizing....and im sure you have felt some of mine have been racist.

sorry about that.

Edible panties taste like crap.

by anna in philly (jrsygir1@aol.com) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 11:25:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gotcha (none / 0)

BTW, I'm extremely patronizing or so I'm told. I don't try to be, but I get that both online and IRL, so it must be true.

I know that I'm not sexist toward Clinton, though I do have a low view of herd mentality no matter what the herd is. With women in particular, I'm much harder on them in regard to this herd mentality. If that makes me sexist, then so be it. I just expect more out of women than I do from men.

Blogging While Brown Convention Atlanta, GA July 25-27, 2008

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 01:01:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You nailed it (none / 0)

You nailed it with this comment:

It's not gender, it's Hillary. It's no to a 3rd term. It's Clinton-fatigue. It's the '90s weren't all that great, they're only better than the '00s. It's playing racist politics and then blaming the target of those politics for it.
But you know what? When I'm reading women saying that they're voting for Clinton because she's a woman, it's stupid. Just as stupid as anyone saying they're voting for Obama because he's black.

The armchair psychoanalysis diaries (recent comments from AG come to mind; I don't want to single Anna out - I just happened to reach my tipping point just now) are getting really old. As if we're so driven by our reptilian brains we cannot tell the difference between the DLC candidate and the last remaining alternative to the DLC candidate.

"Money ruined Democracy. Washington is lost. We only have the grassroots left." - Bill Moyers

by Knoxville Progressive (green_planet_2000 (at) yahoo (dot) com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:14:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You nailed it (none / 0)

we ARE controlled by our reptilian brains...although i prefer to think of it as our caveman brains....you cant overcome nature that easily.

one more comment about the herd....if the lion doesnt understand the herd, the lion starves to death.

Edible panties taste like crap.

by anna in philly (jrsygir1@aol.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 11:28:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, I might agree (none / 0)

if Hillary was a strong white woman.

But she ain't.

She's just a stalking horse for Bill.

It's one guy against another, mano et mano, except that Bill uses Hillary as his little puppet.

If it was a strong white woman, I might oppose her for that reason.

But I oppose Hillary because she is NOT a strong white woman. She's just a shill for Bill.

by dataguy on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 01:10:57 AM EST

Re: Well, I might agree (none / 1)

that's total bullshit.

by BooMan on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 01:20:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Its not race. It IS GENDER!!! | 16 comments (16 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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