Booman Tribune ~ A Progressive Community

Obama Can't Win

by BooMan
Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 02:51:38 PM EST

Anyone want to count the ways in which this essay is offensive?

Obama Can't Win | 18 comments (18 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Offensive? Yes, some.

But I found it very interesting to hear this perspective from a black european. He's an interesting man whose led an interesting career, and I think it's good to press snooze on the self-righteousness and hear what he has to say.

by eeblet (bethbudwig at g mail) on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 04:17:39 PM EST

Re: Obama Can't Win (none / 0)

I didn't get past the "pinprick of irritation" comment before taking off my gloves and slapping my computer screen.

by Bob In Pacifica on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 02:56:50 PM EST

Re: Obama Can't Win (none / 0)

I expect there's a lynching part somewhere in there. did not get past the first 3 words. the Hitler pic was enough.

This essay does not deserve the ink. is not worthy of a pinch of shit. there would be a stinking outrage if Obama was a Yid, (Jew).

enough of my energy.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 03:15:02 PM EST

Re: Obama Can't Win (none / 0)

His analysis is derived of a review of a book that has already been proven wrong, and his own jealousy that a black man not bound to a slave past can emerge a leader.

Big yawn there.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 03:19:26 PM EST

Re: Obama Can't Win (none / 0)

Who is this British prick and what qualifies him to comment on American elections or our history anyway? Somebody sic Andrew Sullivan on him.

by RandyH on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 03:35:13 PM EST

Re: Obama Can't Win (none / 0)

a Andrew Sullivan find:

Morin nails it

lvoe it.

and Hillary is pulling out all the cards. In San Antonio today, she was introduced by Gloria Steinem who pleaded to put a woman in the White House. I heard no mention of character, etc.

Well, "You can't vote for war and disown the results"

by idredit on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 04:10:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Can't Win (none / 1)

Gloria Steinem is an old CIA hack. Whenever you see her in public her role is to divide the Left. Always has been. Remember, she was on Henry Kissinger's arm when brown women and children around the world were dying because of his triangulations.

by Bob In Pacifica on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 05:16:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Can't Win (none / 0)

Thanks - if you hadn't said it, I would have. Gloria Steinhem really IS a CIA hack. There's no other way to put it.

I wonder who the CIA favors more - Clinton, or McCain. I think they must be leery of the unknown kid....

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 09:11:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Can't Win (none / 0)

I don't think I can count that high even with a computer. The couple of morsels of truth in there are drowned in the steaming pile of his shitty analysis.

we've got the "not black enough" argument, lots of nonsensical racialism, and a completely gratuitous Osama reference.

For white America, this separation makes the guilt associated with slavery an everyday reality.

um, no. I get that he WANTS me to feel that way but that isn't my reality.

There are, Steele says, two kinds of influential black figures in US public life. The "challengers"--Garvey, Malcolm X, Jackson--wield power by making whites feel guilty about the old crime and only allowing the guilt to be relieved in return for concessions of one kind or another... "bargainers"... strike quite a different deal by saying to white America: "I will not use America's horrible history of white racism against you, if you will promise not to use my race against me."

This is the part I think has a little truth in it, but the spin is interesting. I'm actually tempted to read Steele's book to see if he's being accurately quoted, because he is himself very much from the "bargainer" side, being the Republicans' favorite black author.

I think he's framing it in the most offensive way possible, but the division is real. The "challengers" spend most of their time talking to black people; the "bargainers" notice how much more successful they can be if they get some white fans as well. The writer tries hard to paint this as selling out. But Obama can't get elected president, or US Senator, without lots and lots of white votes, and he's not ever going to get those votes by talking race.
Maybe I am a racist. But no one is going to win my vote by calling me one and appealing to guilt.

The Four Horsemen of Bushism: War, Corruption, Hypocrisy and Greed

by esquimaux (esquimaux1 at gmail dot com) on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 03:49:03 PM EST

Across the Pond (none / 0)

.
A lot of discussion on same article with further response. I like the comment from Colorado: "US young voter generation have grown up 'colorblind'."

Trevor Phillips responds

Those who have been enjoying the debate stirred by Trevor Phillips's article on Barack Obama in our current issue (on this blog and elsewhere) may be interested to read his response to some of the criticisms that have been levelled at him, printed as a letter in the Independent today.

Trevor Phillips - biography
Chair, Equality and Human Rights Commission, London SE1

"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."

by Oui on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 04:40:31 PM EST

Re: Obama Can't Win (none / 0)

Won't it be wonderful when Booman does not lead us into an article with an opinion prefaced to frame our review of same.
Don't quite see it the way you've suggested, but that's not surprising with you and I.
And won't it be wonderful when Booman and I agree on something.
Love ya!

Click here to step into the Village Blue2

by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 04:46:17 PM EST

Re: Obama Can't Win (none / 0)

You don't see anything offensive in that essay?

by BooMan on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 07:28:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Booman (none / 0)

You know what Booman, I have been more personally offended as a human being, by comments made on this site many times and most recently with regard to HRC...that I think have been beyond the pale.
I read an English Black man giving his opinion on a number of things, including a book written by another man, with a lot of material about what he and the author think about the black/slavery/english/black/non slavery/obama/election/black status in America and on and on...well it's his opinion and I think interesting to read from the point of view as another commenter mentioned to see what one man of color in another country thinks about all of these things.
Why should I be offended by his analysis, can I not just agree or disagree without being offended, I have no personal stake in what he says.
However on this site I see comments by people whom I have been reading their writings for several years now and I have a more personal involvement with them so as to be disappointed and possibly offended by things they write, yet I do not count them off in numbers and even then I question my right to be offended as I think they have a right to their opinions and words, offensive to me or not.
Oh and another thing I question why you feel it necessary to forwarn of possible offensive (unless it be pornographic) material when you direct us to a link, which is your subjective opinion in any case. It is clear that you see no other outcome for reading said material, but you do take something away from us the directed, in that we begin the article with a prejudicial imprint and then must look to justify or deny same.
I wasn't even going to answer this comment, I am very busy crocheting and can barely put it down, but I'm such a sucker for a comment from you.
Won't it be wonderful when?????????

Click here to step into the Village Blue2

by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 09:10:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Booman (none / 0)

for starters, he's indignant that Obama's father's family wasn't enslaved. That's just for starters.

by BooMan on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 10:53:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Booman (none / 0)

R u kidding me, he's indignant, I can't believe you got that from that article.

Click here to step into the Village Blue2

by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 11:05:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Booman (none / 0)

Maybe I got it from this?

There's also a part of me that feels indignant on behalf of my Caribbean slave ancestors. Many of the big figures in African-American political history had Caribbean roots--Marcus Garvey (Jamaica), Malcolm X (Trinidad), Sidney Poitier (Bahamas). Yet a man whose African ancestors never endured transatlantic slavery has become the standard-bearer for the black presence in the US.

by BooMan on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 11:20:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Booman (none / 0)

If that's the way he feels, how does that offend me, it is the way he feels, why does the way someone think have to fall into a manner that you or others find acceptable or is it that he dared to say it and truly I am not going to go back to the article and find what led up to him saying the above, cause I get giant headaches from these discussions with you where you always seems to be searching and sure enough find something for you to get "indignant" about, or perhaps I should take your cue and start getting indignant about things you say and post here and then become offended that you said them.
You take the above statement out of context of the flow of the article and use it to support your argument that there is offensive material in there, where it came out of the flow of the area he was exploring, which to me was interesting insofar as I saw into how this one man was thinking and possibly others do as well. You neatly wrapped up a series of thoughts to come to a seemingly to you statement that he "is indignant that Obama's father was not a slave" that is completely a simplistic connection
I have no need or desire to judge him for his thinking, for his own thoughts, I can agree or disagree, but I don't have to take offense, I'm sure that was not his intention to offend me, perhaps not to offend anyone but lay out his feelings, his ideas, his thinking, that for whatever reasons do not concur with yours, just as mine don't right now, with you, so are you offended and me not being offended.
How about intrepreting that as he is indignant reg. his ancestors, that a descendent of one of them did not rise to the level Obama has...there is a decent argument in there, however you like or dislike it. The whole article began in regards to why a black man like Obama has not risen up in England, and then went on to discuss it from that perspective and from the perspective of an English black man which would surely be different than a white American. That is my opinion of the article.
Perhaps we could have had a better discussion if you changed the word to disagreed, then I could agree with you.

Click here to step into the Village Blue2

by diane101 (dianed101 @ yahoo.com) on Sun Mar 2nd, 2008 at 12:34:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I should admit (none / 0)

That I think Phillips is a a hack. Britian's Juan Williams, if you will. And he reinforces this by actually quoting Shelby Steele. Shelby fucking Steele? No black person takes him seriously. He's in the same category as JC Watts. Just knowing that, you know that it will be an offensive article. Glad to see that Phillips lives up his end of the bargain.

~~~THIS SPACE FOR RENT~~~

by fabooj (fabooj [at} mail [dot} com) on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 09:07:51 PM EST

Obama Can't Win | 18 comments (18 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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