Booman Tribune

Addressing Global Warming Post-Bush: A Frog-Pond Brainstorming Session

by Knoxville Progressive
Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 01:26:06 PM EST

OK, we've got several weeks to go until the Pennsylvania primary, so to keep from going stark raving mad with all Obama-Clinton, all the time, here's some food for thought in the meantime:

The problem:  Developing nations, most prominently China and India, have issues with the Kyoto protocol, but due to their sheer immensity and rapid industrialization, they have a large and rapidly growing impact on the levels of greenhouse gases (GHG) in the atmosphere.  There is both a need and a desire to get them on board with some post-Kyoto treaty to control GHG, but they are unwilling to accept proposals that would cap emissions and limit their opportunity for modernization.  After all, goes the argument, if the Europeans and Americans were entitled to pollute for progress, then so are we.

And we need to get America on board - which all three presidential candidates at least seem to recognize, and have addressed in their proposals to varying degrees.  So that is at least some progress post-Bush.

But how do we get past the obstacles in the way of an effective climate change agreement?  This is what we're going to collectively brainstorm today:  What suggestions / recommendations would you give the next president for how to get the process moving in the right direction?

Any solution (it seems to me) must meet the following (by no means exhaustive) criteria:

  1. It must put all nations on a path to reduced GHG emissions (although the "glide path" for reductions on the part of nations like China and India - and the rest of the "developing world," for that matter - may be adjustable to allow for their right to develop and their specific national circumstances).

  2. It must have sufficient "carrots" in it to get developing nations to agree to it.  It must be worth their while to get on board, and not just "to save humanity."  That argument hasn't gotten US on board, so how can we expect it to fly for folks in more dire circumstances?  Realistically, nations are not going to buy into a return to the 18th century.  We need to offer a vision of progress, but sustainable progress.  Which likely means it's going to look more like this than this, no matter what our personal thoughts on the matter, if we're to avoid this and this.

  3. It must have a fair system of "sticks" for everyone.  Even signatory nations, while paying lip service to Kyoto, are failing to meet their agreements under the existing treaty (for example, Canada).  We're not going to get the job done at this rate:  the science increasingly shows that the scenarios presented by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (co-winners of the Nobel Prize with Al Gore) are too optimistic - we need deeper cuts, sooner, if we're to avoid catastrophic climate tipping points.  I won't detail those here, to keep the discussion on the post-Kyoto treaty; you can check out the links in this sentence for more details.

Some possible pieces of the puzzle:  These may or may not be part of the next-generation treaty we develop - I'm throwing them out for group consideration to get the discussion going:

Do we want to consider a global carbon tax?  To be politically realistic in the US, it probably would have to be administered at the national level, with funds going into a "World Carbon Bank" (WCB) whose mission is to reduce GHG levels by apportioning a scientifically-determined and annually-shrinking pool of carbon emission credits between nations.  

The WCB may also work with organizations like the World Bank to fund carbon sequestration projects and take actions to promote energy-generating technologies that do not release GHG.  Do we give nations credits against their carbon taxes for implementing clean energy technologies?  How?

China yesterday announced they intend to keep their one-child policy in place, and explicitly pointed out that by not giving birth to an additional 300,000,000 people, they have cut their GHG emissions by 1,300,000,000 tons of carbon dioxide a year from what they would have been.  Since the environmental issue that dare not speak its name (although it once could) is the link between population growth and rising GHG emissions (absent technical innovations), is it reasonable to somehow reward this behavior in terms of their national carbon tax debt?  How?  How to keep this from causing a massive reaction against the treaty, torpedoing it? (Not just US Republicans, but also the Roman Catholic Church, Islamic conservatives, those who see it as a secret genocide policy against non-Caucasian races, etc.)  The policy isn't popular in China - do we offer this as a temporary option for credits until a nation gets through its developmental and demographic transition?

And how do you deal fairly with nations that are already relatively energy efficient but are concerned that under a new regime they're not going to get credit for good works already accomplished - like Japan?

Anyway, that's enough on the table to get the discussion going.  I look forward to reading your thoughts.



Display:
...apparently you don't forget how to do this, even if it's been a long time.  :-)

"Money ruined Democracy. Washington is lost. We only have the grassroots left." - Bill Moyers
by Knoxville Progressive (green_planet_2000 (at) yahoo (dot) com) on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 01:27:14 PM EST

Ideally? The best possible thing we could've done would have been for America to take the lead on this twenty years ago and develop green technologies, then sell those cheaply to developing nations, quickly bringing them up to speed without the attendant, lethal pollution.

Unfortunately, Americans all went temporarily insane and elected Ronald McDonald twice, then Ronald McDonald's little shoulder devil, then Grimace (twice), then Hamburgler. Twice.

I think we can still do this, but it's going to be harder. There's too much perception that carbon-intensive industries and technologies are somehow essential to development. See, for example, the recent fixation on cars as symbols of wealth and status in India and China. We've got to develop the green technologies - green wind, green solar, green transport, green architecture, green urban planning, green everything - and redefine modernity as something environmentally-friendly. Heavily-polluting, oil-dependent technologies aren't "modern", they're "archaic".

So... I think the first step is addressing global warming in the US, Canada, Europe, and Japan. Where the G8 leads, the rest will follow. If we can get the G8 to stop leading us off a cliff...

Kill because somebody was killed. Get killed because he killed. Do you think peace will ever come like that?

by Egarwaen on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 09:54:28 PM EST
I like this thought:

...redefine modernity as something environmentally-friendly. Heavily-polluting, oil-dependent technologies aren't "modern", they're "archaic".

Sometimes I think that we're not going to save the world unless it somehow involves person A profitably selling something to person B that person B thinks is fashionable.  

There's still a role for government even if that is true, however, and that's keeping other entrenched industries from nipping the new industry in the bud (like happened to high-mileage and electric car research), providing research and seed money (What is the Department of Energy for, again?), etc.

Of course, that's a minimal level, what I'd expect from a president John McCain dealing with a Democratic congress.  We need to set more ambitious goals and lay out a path to achieve CO2 reduction if we're going to get the job done in the timetable that the latest science is telling us we must meet, like the Energize America plan.

"Money ruined Democracy. Washington is lost. We only have the grassroots left." - Bill Moyers

by Knoxville Progressive (green_planet_2000 (at) yahoo (dot) com) on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 04:28:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, "storming" might be the best word to describe the condition of my brain when I think about climatic changes. I know so very little, yet I keep taking the snippets of what I read and try to come up with something that might do something...round and round I go.

I am really hesitant to suggest anything for fear it will seem so foolish.

Maybe it is because spring is happening...maybe it is because I saw a you tube link over at ET about 10 acres in Jordan that was brought into bloom by digging a trench, mounding the dirt on the sides, mulching with compost normally burned, planting trees on one side of the swale to add nitrogen, planting another mix of trees and bushes to grow...and it worked! The salty, over fertilized soil was rejuvenated with the salt neutralized, using much, much less water than current methods.

Maybe it is recollecting a German(?) film maker visiting with women in Afghanistan after the Taliban were removed who met with the women to ask them what they wanted...and the women said they wanted the women's garden which the Taliban destroyed, to be restored.

And I think of the rising oil prices here in the U.S. and the rising food costs and the spreading financial crisis...and I think of local gardens and Community Sustained Agriculture and container gardens...all over.

There was a person I read about who was taking polluted water and running it through a variety of tanks, each with its own ingredients, from microbes to various plants. The water was cleaned. He even built plant rafts to float on lakes and they cleaned the water.

So, maybe a garden movement here in the U.S.?

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. (George Carlin)

by tampopo on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 01:01:43 AM EST
Excellent idea, IMO. Community gardens are one of the ideas I really like. Nothing beats fresh herbs and vegetables that you've grown yourself, particularly from heirloom seeds. The problem is that you need organic community gardens, which requires a bit of expertise that we've been neglecting for nigh a century.

Kill because somebody was killed. Get killed because he killed. Do you think peace will ever come like that?
by Egarwaen on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 01:16:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Was John Todd the person you were thinking of for the natural wastewater treatment?  He's been promoting that kind of thing since I was a tadpole...  I think I first saw him in a Whole Earth Catalog (now I'm dating myself!)

"Money ruined Democracy. Washington is lost. We only have the grassroots left." - Bill Moyers
by Knoxville Progressive (green_planet_2000 (at) yahoo (dot) com) on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 03:54:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes - that's him. I read about it in a sample magazine I received (HOPE).

From it I was imagining how to collect and process my gray water, growing plants and fish, and cleaning the water.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. (George Carlin)

by tampopo on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 04:56:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Unfortunately, in a lot of places legal restrictions (for health reasons) apply to home grey water treatment and reuse.  Some examples:

California
Colorado
North Carolina

However, Bill Richardson signed a bill to make it legal in New Mexico.

"Money ruined Democracy. Washington is lost. We only have the grassroots left." - Bill Moyers

by Knoxville Progressive (green_planet_2000 (at) yahoo (dot) com) on Fri Mar 14th, 2008 at 11:04:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
KP - you and Egarwaen wrote that wonderful series of diaries on Environmentalism with many, many ideas on what can be done.

Again, focusing on the U.S., I'm thinking about the development of community level programs and services. But instead of the emphasis going directly to environmental efforts, I'm thinking about programs that help us with conflict resolution - mediation and mediators and with communication. Cooperation is much when there is communication. So a new CCC effort - Communication - Cooperation - Conflict-Resolution?

Corporations spend millions on advertising their "good neighbor" qualities and efforts. There must be something very important in being a good neighbor or they wouldn't bother with either the very real contributions they make or the hype.

Maybe this can be done in schools - after hours and on weekends and through the summer. How to get people to participate? Maybe with gas coupons or utility credits? (Why thank you oil companies and utilities for your generous community contributions!)

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. (George Carlin)

by tampopo on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 10:22:27 AM EST
An interesting article on the actual impact of biofuel technology, including some interesting opportunities for carbon management.

Kill because somebody was killed. Get killed because he killed. Do you think peace will ever come like that?
by Egarwaen on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 01:14:22 PM EST


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