Booman Tribune ~ A Progressive Community

Plan 2012 Continues

by BooMan
Sat Mar 29th, 2008 at 11:52:27 PM EST

The Washington Post reports that Hillary Clinton is going to contest the election all the way until the convention and then try to win a credentials committee fight to seat the lopsided Michigan delegation (as well as Florida) and then hope the superdelegates take her side. I think this is mostly bluster...a way to try to stop the drip drip drip of stories calling on her to drop out of the race. But it's definitely not what any Democrats wanted to hear (her diehards excepted).

If she were actually to do this she would badly undermine party unity as well as the perceived legitimacy of the nomination. And her chances of winning won't improve one bit. It's up to the party to preserve itself. They must find a way to avoid a convention fight.

The only thing we can do is whatever we can to help Obama win Pennsylvania. It's an uphill climb for sure, but if Obama can somehow win Pennsylvania I think the Clintons really will drop out. It might even be the best thing that can happen to them, and their legacy.

Plan 2012 Continues | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (4.00 / 2)

The recent press over the question of whether Clinton should withdraw misses the main point, IMO. Even though there are strong arguments for her withdrawal, especially since victory appears unobtainable, it's not as if there aren't valid reasons for her to continue.

The main point is how the Clinton campaign has conducted themselves.

I, too, have pointed out that the only objective the Clinton campaign is achieving at this point is the harming of the eventual 2008 Democratic nominee. It would be different if Clinton and her campaign had conducted themselves as, for instance, John Edwards did.

Moreover, it's hypocritical to profess certain goals and then act in a way that is destructive to those goals. The arguments the Clinton campaign have put forth, such as Hillary is the only person who can achieve certain goals, strike me as arrogant or disingenuous. I'm willing to entertain other possibilities for the Clinton campaign's behavior, such as ego, etc., but alternative possibilities are becoming less viable.

ad bellum purificandum - Kenneth Burke

by colinski on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 01:36:52 AM EST

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (4.00 / 2)

Why should anyone care about the Clintons' legacy, whatever that is? Well, I don't. They just need to go away.

by Quentin on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 02:21:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (4.00 / 2)

I feel the same way. They were tolerable, the lesser of two evils, in their two elections. But please. Don't ask me to CHOOSE them for our nominee.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 02:28:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (4.00 / 2)

and Obama said it's OK with him if she goes all the way. I thought that was a pretty classy move on his part,myself.

by Bright Creature (kelpie (no spam filler) . b @ gmail . com) on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 02:37:48 AM EST

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (4.00 / 2)

He's been a class act throughout.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 03:02:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

C'mon...wake up. (none / 0)

He is a practical politician and he was acceding to the fix if it is necessary and practical.

From a comment of mine posted elsewhere recently:

The current fix.

Couple this statement from Harry Reid:

Las Vegas Review-Journal:

While Democrats across the country are anguished about the bitter fight for their presidential nomination, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid doesn't appear to be losing any sleep over it.

Asked about it last week, Reid said he remains convinced the nominee will be decided well before the August national convention. He wore a serene and mysterious smile.

But Reid isn't one for lengthy explanations. The conversation went like this:

Question: Do you still think the Democratic race can be resolved before the convention?

Reid: Easy.

Q: How is that?

Reid: It will be done.

Q: It just will?

Reid: Yep.

Q: Magically?

Reid: No, it will be done. I had a conversation with Governor Dean (Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean) today. Things are being done.

That's all the Nevada Democrat would say about it.

With this part of Mario Cuomo's recent Boston Globe op-ed:

If they are not capable of doing that, the two could announce they will complete the primary schedule and convention with the winner becoming candidate for president and the other agreeing to be a candidate for vice president, thereby mollifying to some extent the constituency of the candidate who was not chosen as the nominee for president.

And you have the current state of the Dem fix.

Bet on it.

All fixes are in flux, of course. Sometimes the tomato can says "Fuck it. I'm taking the champ out" and proceeds to do so. And sometimes someone gets...hurt...before the fix can be applied. But all things being equal, this is what is going to happen on the Dem side.

Watch.

For more on this subject, I refer you to a recent comment of mine that was published elsewhere.

The fix is ALWAYS in.

Watch.

I don't care who wins...Obama, Clinton or maybe Gore. (Hear that distant rumbling? It's the giant Senator's ego and belly beginning to make waves.)

Watch.

For whom the fix tolls?

It tolls for the winner.

Bet on it.

The will of the people?

Give me a BREAK!!!

If "the people" were to be told the ongoing truth of the matter, NONE 'a these motherfuckers would win and there would be political lynchings going on up and down Pennsylvania Avenue.

Can't have THAT, right?

Who'd close the deals?

Please.

The fix?

It's what"s for dinner.

Wake the fuck up.

Reid?

He's from LAS VEGAS, fer chrissake!!!

Where the fix is legal.

He cannot possibly be straight and still have succeeded in Nevada. Las Vegas is still owned by the mob. They have just cleaned up their act and hired some PR people. It was most certainly owned by it in the '60s and '70s when Reid came up. i worked in Vegas then and saw it from the inside. Rotten through and through. And so is he.

Bet on it.

That "serene and mysterious smile?"

I got yer serene and mysterious smile.

Right HERE!!!

Carmine DeSapio. Possibly one of the greatest fixers of all time, the last head of NYC's Tammany Hall.

The smile of a cheating winner.

Someone who knows that however things turn out it will be the way that he wants them to turn out.

Yup.

Bet on it.

Bet on it.

AG

Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie.-Mae West

by Arthur Gilroy (arthurgilroy<at>earthlink.net) on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 09:15:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (none / 1)

lol! It's smart politics on his part to be classy.

His campaign knows what it's doing. Get the attack out there from a surrogate. Then have the candidate takes the high road and back away from it. The subject of the attack is still out there. The candidate looks good.

Not many candidates can ever actually pull it off as well as Obama.

Every day I am more impressed with his political skills.

Help me raise money for Jay Nixon, the next Democratic governor of Missouri

by maryb2004 on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 10:17:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (none / 0)

NO argument!

I view being classy as being smart.. period. Classy is always well received..but so few people bother with it. Mostly people like the instant gratification of the extended claws or the knife in the back.

by Bright Creature (kelpie (no spam filler) . b @ gmail . com) on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 03:19:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's a money thing (4.00 / 2)

She's pretty much broke, and who knows how bad her cash flow is? The money she's reported is part pledge, and the pledges may even walk on her. If she even suggests she's out, or may be out, the money really dries out and she's out.

Michaela

by michaelmt (MrMichael_t@yahoo.com) on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 06:32:52 AM EST

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (none / 1)

Anyone have any polls more recent than 3/24?? I'm dying to know if he's gaining ground. I can't imagine he is not. He's gaining nationally....

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 12:20:07 AM EST

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (none / 1)

To be clear - I'm looking for PA polls.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 12:20:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (none / 1)

3/28 - HRC 51 BP 39
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/

No Hillary, you were outspent by the people not the Obama campaign.

by mainsailset (rideback@gmail.com) on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 12:56:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (none / 0)

dang.

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 02:27:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Rasmussen Poll (none / 0)

.
● Rasmussen HRC 49 - Obama 39
● RealClearPolitics Avg HRC 52 - Obana 36

"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."

by Oui on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 02:14:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen Poll (none / 0)

ooof! better, but...

by eeblet on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 02:21:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rasmussen Poll (none / 0)

Word!

"If you look for the social economic motive, you will not have to wait for history to tell you what was propaganda and what was truth." - George Seldes

by Real History Lisa (lpeaseRemoveThis@gte.net) on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 02:27:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If you believe this: (none / 0)

It's up to the party to preserve itself. They must find a way to avoid a convention fight.

What you need to do for the future is get the party to move the convention to the month of March. That way all the primaries would have been contested - Pennsylvania and all the others would have had their say and we can be done with all this bullshit.

Because the candidate is chosen at the convention. That's where the delegates vote. Whether "pledged" or not, they have to cast their votes.

by Ed J on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 07:58:22 AM EST

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (none / 0)

if she is building her hopes around making it to the convention so the credentials committee can make decisions, then we should worry. the 3 co-chairs of that committee are all beholden to Billary.

The sleep of reason begets tyrants. -Goya

by joe in oklahoma on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 09:28:20 AM EST

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (none / 0)

michaelmt is right. she's broke.
check this out:
http://fromtheleft.wordpress.com/2008/03/30/deadbeat-hillary-cant-pay-her-bills/

http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080213/NEWS/80213011

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/nyregion/23owe.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Clinton+AND+campaign+AND +court&st=nyt&oref=slogin

The sleep of reason begets tyrants. -Goya

by joe in oklahoma on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 09:37:54 AM EST

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (none / 0)

The March finance reports should be out this week. She'll have some 'splaining to do. The nexus of TX, unpaid bills, smaller $'s coming in even during a month that included Rev Wight will paint a bleak picture going into April & PA.

It's not going to help her w/the unpaid bills with new vendors in upcoming states who will start to request payments UP FRONT. That could be crippling.

No Hillary, you were outspent by the people not the Obama campaign.

by mainsailset (rideback@gmail.com) on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 01:22:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (none / 0)

Whenever I think about Hillary's Campaign That Will Never Die(tm), this clip from the Clerks animated series comes to mind:

...nothing can kill the Grimace.

by Zandar1 on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 10:13:15 AM EST

Re: Plan 2012 Continues (none / 1)

Andy Borowitz has been hilarious this election but today's is especially good: Hillary vows to stay in race 100 years:

The New York senator's comments echoed a strategy outlined in a recently leaked internal campaign memo, which calls for her to remain in the race long after the Democratic National Convention, even if Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill) becomes the party's official nominee.
According to the memo, Sen. Clinton plans to follow Sen. Obama's campaign bus around in a Chevy Suburban in the hopes of running it off the road.
"If necessary, we will sideswipe or ram into his bus," the memo said. "Just really mess him up."

Help me raise money for Jay Nixon, the next Democratic governor of Missouri

by maryb2004 on Sun Mar 30th, 2008 at 10:36:32 AM EST

Plan 2012 Continues | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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