Focus on drawing up a dispassionate, legal, factual bill of indictment. Keep it credible and realistic. Forget the rhetoric. Then ask the media, Congress, candidates, the public which, if any, counts they disagree with. If any points are not dismissed, ask why there should be no prosecution of criminal offenses. Do you want a country where the powerful need fear no legal consequences or investigation for their actions?

FDR's response to progressive demands: "I agree. Now go out and make me do it."

make the specific charges the issue, not the broad question of whether impeachment would be proper.

FDR's response to progressive demands: "I agree. Now go out and make me do it."

I wish I could have been at that meeting so I could spit in John Conyers' face.

I don't know why anyone bothers to listen to that lying sack of shit. He talked big right up until he had the power to actually do something, and then he stuck his thumb up his ass and did nothing.

So we're up to another election cycle and he wants to drum up another handful of impotent outrage votes. This is news? Did anyone ask him why Sibel Edmonds doesn't exist in his universe? Or about his oath to defend the Constitution?

The man is an accessory to the war crimes and treason of the executive branch. We're not going to get Bush indicted unless we can somehow indict people like Conyers, too.

Sorry, but Conyers and his ilk have zero credibility. Zilch. None. Nada. He's a craven, cynical opportunist without a shred of moral decency.

---Cthulhu for President: Why vote for the lesser evil?

Stink up the place with the truth about our president and his administration.

Don't talk or write about anything else.  We should never be drawn into a gossip-fest over the intelligence of Rush, Bill, or Timmeh.  Especially never over which ivy league graduate is more elitist.

Criminal indictments are lovely, but the media are where it's at in this country.  They all need to feel the wrath of the people.  Let them eat what they have done to us all.

The next time somebody gets shot in the face by a drunk, I want to see a real furor.  Remember we are at war.

First of all, you must get over the futile fantasy that the Dems will take any action no matter how much political capital that they accrue in the elections.

They will continue to make the same mistake that Bill Clinton made-- assume that they're not in an existential fight with rightwing ideologues seeking to turn the country into a fascist dictatorship. The right wing repaid Clinton's generosity in turning a blind eye to Iraq-Contra by impeaching him after years of crippling warfare.

The best bet is to solicit big money and injured parties sue in civil court. Use discovery and the threat of perjury charges to bring to light the corrupt, shady and illegal activities of the Cheney/Bush Administration.

     ClammyC has a great diary up at Daily Kos-where he writes that the only way to straighten this out is to hand down some criminal indictments. In my book, he's on to something. We do need criminal indictments. Plenty of them.

On political conservatives: "I was so shocked I nearly dropped the Bible I was using to help me masturbate into my gun." Bill Maher

Whatever you write send a copy to the World Court in the Hague because nothing is going to get done here in the US of A.

Maybe when Bush is transferring planes somewhere outside the country on his way to South America someone will show up at the airport and arrest him. Maybe some kind of Pinochet action.

Hey Boo- are you serious.You really don't know what to do?
Well-here is what you have to do-- NOT A DAMN THING! There isn't a damn thing to do. Any actions possible have long been gone. Make lists. Stand on the corner and cry. Give me a break. Those that could and those that should have sold this country down the drain.
You want to know what to do?
Make sure your passport is up to date and check into all possible exit points from this country. Pack a bag with what you will need. Keep it ready and wait for the shit to hit the fan. That is what you should do. And while you are at it- maybe you should elicit a list of :how to get a passport. Where are the exit points. What should be included in your suitcase or back pack.
fugeddabowtit.

Special prosecutor, definitely.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

The best way to get serious traction for impeachment is to threaten the RNC with RICO for vote fraud, intimidation, etc.  They will sell their mothers in a heart beat.

Tomorrow edition of the Scotsman is going to have a story saying that Gore and Carter are getting ready to have a "Come to Jesus" moment with Clinton.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to you country.

this calls for a sternly worded letter.

We were just talking about that over at EuroTrib.

I wrote about this yesterday, but seriously, what is it going to take? The US President brags on TV about authorising torture, and the reaction is a big shrug?

We're all complicit.

The question is, at what point does moral outrage become such that one is compelled to step outside the system altogether? For example, Brian Haw was most definitely not complicit in the war on Iraq, but how about the rest of us who continued going about our lives, doing our jobs, and paying our taxes?

At what point does resistance become a moral obligation?

That is the question, and it is a hard one.  As far as I know there is no bright line anywhere, no boolean test that we can apply to the slippery slope of national moral failure.  But surely when our chief executive confesses on national television for all the world to hear that he and the entire top echelon of our national government actively conspired to commit torture, an international war crime, surely we have crossed some undeniable threshold.  

Have I ever told you about my poor memory?

This may be very off the wall but since you asked...

There may be a point to saving impeachment till the very, very end of Bush's term. I have no clue if this is Conyer's plan (or Pelosi, Reid, etc.). It's certainly possible they have no plan at all, and are just being chickenshit, as many have said.

But we live in hope. Maybe there is a plan, and maybe this is it.

WHAT IF.... they are planning to impeach both Bush and Cheney just before the end of the term?

Why wait till then, you say?

Pardons. Maybe.

We all know damn well that on 1/19/09 Bush is going to pardon everybody and their cousin. I just wrote a DKos diary on this, wondering if one way to nullify these pardons might be for the next President to take the position that the Presidential power to grant pardons includes the Presidential power to revoke pardons, under limited circumstances. Many people shot down my harebrained speculation, and on reflection I'm sure they're correct, and that way won't work.

But the problem still remains. Is there any way to short-circuit Bush's inevitable January pardons?

What does the Constitution say about pardons? The language is that the President "shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment." That's the whole thing.

Notice that last clause. Is it possible that Conyers, Reid, et al are thinking a case can be made that "except in cases of impeachment" means that while an impeachment is under way, the Presidential pardon power is not available?

For going on two years, Reid has said that he doesn't have the votes to convict, so he isn't going to support impeachment. Everyone else has gone along, and many here in Left Blogistan have been frustratingly baffled as to why.

Maybe this is why. What if the Dems are planning to take the position that while a Senate impeachment trial is under way the pardon power is on hold? What if they spring an impeachment on Bush at the last minute?  What if the Senate impeachment trial runs from, say, November through the end of Bush's term? No pardons. At least, according to this hypothesis.

Wishful thinking? Maybe. I'm probably just as full of shit today as I was yesterday. But damn, I'd love to find a way to shut down Bush's last minute pardon power.

With so many smoking guns, it's almost become a smoke screen.  Which one leads to the tipping point, where the media, Congress, and the public can no longer stick their heads in the sand?

Politicians can be scared by a legitimate opposition from within their own party or by convincing their largest contributors.

The press can be influenced by threatening it's perceived legitimacy or (to more effect) its ad revenue.

The Administration can be influenced by 'Lies They Want to Hear.' It's easier influence a gold prospector with tales of nuggets than tales of silk.

Declaring the bottom is the only way back up..

Does a special prosecutor have a time limit? In other words, can the prosecution process extend beyond the end of Bush - Cheney's term?

If the answer is yes, then I think the idea of doing something is important - very important, perhaps even unifying many of those who have splintered over the primary process. A Republican friend sent me the link to the NYT article on our torturing. He felt it was important for people to know. There may be a great many more people who can look at this as citizens, not party members.

I think the focus on the lack of media coverage is not worth our time. Imo, the media follows.

Getting the administration to do anything also seems rather fruitless. As others have noted, Bush still has an incredible grip on congress - beyond anything he should have had given his ratings and the change in the '06 election.

So, focusing on getting a special prosecutor - IF the investigation-prosecution process can be carried into the next administration.

But rather than direct energy toward members of congress, I think our efforts should be directed toward getting businesses and organizations to speak out against torture and for a special prosecutor. The ABA, the AMA, unions, associations - heck, even PTAs.

Maybe businesses that do international work might be ready to stand up. Plus, with this administration just about finished, haven't they moved on to funding and shmoozing with the next round of contenders?


Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. (George Carlin)

If I may recycle a comment I just posted on EuroTrib:

The US is polarized between a minority that screams for high-level prosecutions and a majority that favors, at most, a change of administration and policy.

I think we can be confident that the high-level prosecutions will never happen, and I think that most here would agree that it isn't enough to quietly change people and policies (for an election cycle or two).

Neither attempting to prosecute nor ignoring the crimes and moving on can heal the US -- no more than prosecutions or denial could have healed South Africa.

I advocate what has succeeded in similar cases: a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. (According to this Wikipedia article, Josh Marshall has already called for this).

From the page linked above:

A truth commission or truth and reconciliation commission is a commission tasked with discovering and revealing past wrongdoing by a government, in the hope of resolving conflict left over from the past. They are, under various names, occasionally set up by states emerging from periods of internal unrest, civil war, or dictatorship.

This seems to fit the case better than any alternative I know.

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.

My answer: Swarm the Clinton and Obama campaigns. Demand that they devote some time during CNN's "Compassion Forum" tonight to the question of torture.

If elected President, I will expose and publicly revoke all this psychotic torture shit that George Bush and Dick Cheney have done in our names. It is wrong. It is barbaric. It is unamerican. It has made us less safe. I will end it and work tirelessly to make sure it cannot happen the next time the American people happen to elect a sadistic monster President.

The US is polarized between a minority that screams for high-level prosecutions and a majority that favors, at most, a change of administration and policy.

Where is the data to support this?  I would like to see the results of a poll asking now, in light of recent admissions that the top officials in this administration were approving of application of SPECIFIC torture methods, do you favor prosecution?

Despite the media diversion to orange juice and bowling, I think a surprisingly high number might vote for prosecution and/or impeachment.

Amazing that this is not being asked regularly, and published widely!

I came here from Tristero's post which included your question.  Here's my response:

Impeachment is the sole means by which we have any hope to stop this constitutional dictatorship and to reverse the silent coup d'etat which has been achieved.

I would put all efforts into sending this message to Congress:

failure to do everything proscribed by the Constitution to halt the continued assault on it by Bush, Cheney and "The Principles" is itself an act of treason. You (elected member of Congress) will be held accountable should you fail to do your Constitutional duty effectively and in a timely manner, and you will be supported when you act to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution by bringing forward articles of impeachment and voting on legislation which restores habeas corpus, repeals the Military Commissions Act and fully restores the Constitution and all of the rights of we, the people.

Military officers must resign their commissions en masse in response to orders which are illegal (preemptive war, occupation of a country which is not an imminent threat). The national Guard must be released from service in foreign lands, and service members and respective equipment returned home, where it can be ready to defend against domestic enemies.

This is the heart of the matter. This is the only form of resistance we have.

It is critical to send one uniform, powerful message. It is critical to be clear that we, the people, have not relinquished our government of the people and by the people under the rule of law. It is imperative that we convey the consequences of Congress' failure to do its duty and to be accountable to the will of we, the people.

It is absolutely critical that we act upon that message in a public, transparent, unified and effective fashion. That may mean voting personable, party favorites out of office. That may mean voting in non-traditional ways. It may mean voting for country over party.

This is our last chance and our only chance. We absolutely have to get this right. Now.

What we do is stay on the topic to the exclusion of everything else.  I've tried to do that at Pruning Shears.  If we're serious we should take the "No Primary Pledge".  For God's sake stop contributing to the Clinton/Obama drama.  Every word we write on it gives aid and comfort to the horserace paradigm.  I've seen a lot of hand wringing over it on the left-leaning blogs but every word posted on it dignifies the talking heads.  We might not be able to change them but surely we can change ourselves.