Booman Tribune

Another Bad 'Serious Person' Argument

by BooMan
Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 08:53:58 PM EST

Kevin Drum offers Barack Obama some truly craptacular running mate advice.

I don't have a brief one way or the other for Biden — though he certainly fits the traditional loudmouth-attack-dog-who-says-things-the-president-can't-say profile pretty well — but this objection doesn't seem right. Once he leaves the cozy confines of a primary where the anti-war base is enough to win, Obama is going to enter the chillier territory of a general election where he'll need to draw a bunch of votes from the ranks of people who once supported the war. He needs a good way to signal these folks that he doesn't consider them tainted forever by their erstwhile support, and what better way than by choosing a moderately hawkish senator who once favored the war but has since changed his mind? The opposite tack — insisting that he'll associate only with the pure of heart who opposed the war from the beginning — would be something of a disaster. People won't vote for a candidate who tacitly seems to be calling them idiots.

This is just a variation on the 'serious person' argument. Only people who were for the war can be president or vice-president (in this case) because people don't like to be reminded that they are effing stupid, or because they don't trust people that do not use military force first and ask questions later.

Run on your superior judgment in opposing the war and then make your first major decision picking a running mate that voted for the war.

Seriously, Kevin, WTF?



Display:
I see that Kevin got his degree in Higher Broderism, where being right is less important than compromising.  So, you need to balance the ticket by picking someone with poor judgment to go along with someone with good judgment.  Makes sense.

Tengo un sueño.
by ejmw (ewitham (at) umich (dot) edu) on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 09:27:54 PM EST
I disagree.  

Biden's vote notwithstanding, he's been unrelentingly critical and in my view, honest about the war in general.  He knows what is happening in the rest of the world, and would be a fantastic attack dog, as Kevin pointed out.

I've never understood the blogosphere's general dislike of Biden.  I find him refreshing and smart.

I'm not saying he would be my first choice at all, I'm saying dismissing the idea out of hand is a bit shrill.  

John O

by jonorato (jonorato42@yahoo.com) on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 09:10:18 PM EST
it's his reasoning I find ridiculous, not Biden per se.

However, I'd want him to keep a packet of immodium in his mouth at all times.

by BooMan on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 09:16:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dislike of Biden in the blogosphere probably has many roots. The man is intemperate at times, after all. However, I would wager a lot of it comes from Biden's championing of the Bankrupcy "Reform" bill that passed a few years back. That law brings us very, very close to a precursor-to-feudalism relationship with regards to credit card banks.

The more control, the more that requires control. This is the road to chaos. -Frank Herbert, The Dosadi Experiment
by chimneyswift on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 11:49:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I pay off my credit card every month so I could vote for him in a pinch.
by Bob In Pacifica on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 12:15:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
With that kind of "I'm in it for myself" attitude, why don't you just vote Republican?
by Alexander on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 10:14:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
he was snarking on the bankruptcy bill.
by BooMan on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 10:31:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry, missed the snark. (My excuse is that I didn't get enough sleep.)
by Alexander on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 11:40:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Would Drum's judgment possibly be skewed by the fact that he originally supported the war himself?
by Joe Bourgeois on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 09:53:37 PM EST
I think it's called projection.
by Heart of the Rockies on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 11:22:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Definitely.

Obama is going to enter the chillier territory of a general election where he'll need to draw a bunch of votes from the ranks of people who once supported the war.

Umm...but hasn't he been endorsed by people in the party who once supported the war? So what's the problem here?

Oh...right--there is no problem. He's just pretending that he's not trying to frame who'd make a "suitable" and "proper" set of veeps from which Obama must select. Of course, the last time a campaign listened to the musings of the columnist clique, we were stuck with Joementum. Not that Biden's is as bad...I'm just sayin'...maybe the columnist clique isn't the best wisdom source. But I'd imagine that Obama's campaign knew that already.

I'd have more respect for him if he'd just say why he was pro-Biden and list the reasons why.

Can't hear ya, Peach!

by AP on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 04:39:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
his post needed a meta tag
by lutton on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 09:55:29 PM EST
There is no way in hell Biden should be VP. I haven't forgotten that he started taking credit for the Leslie Gelb idea of dividing Iraq.
by Cee on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 10:36:42 PM EST
Wasn't Biden the one behind the disastrous bankruptcy reform bill that's been one of the things murdering people in the present economic depression? Wouldn't that automatically disqualify him from the ticket?

Kill because somebody was killed. Get killed because he killed. Do you think peace will ever come like that?
by Egarwaen on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 11:27:56 PM EST
Yes, why, yes he was, and yes, why, yes it should.

I for one welcome our new Twitter overlords. @Omir55
by Omir the Storyteller (omir.the.storyteller -CAT- gmail -DOG- com) on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 11:39:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I really think that Sherrod Brown or Richardson would be the best choices. Biden would be a horrific for just a number of reasons. I really think if Obama is smart he'll pick somebody to his left for the vice presidency so that it's quite clear that nothing good will come if something grassy knoll "bad" were to happen to him...You want the shooters to think "Oh great. A hispanic president..." or "Oh great. A pro union anti wto/nafta president..."

Philip Shropshire
www.threeriversonline.com

PS: Someone please tell me that Sherrod Brown is pro choice.

Philip Shropshire http://www.threeriversonline.com

by pshropshire on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 11:33:53 PM EST
I liked Booman's idea about that guy from Rhode Island.
by Bob In Pacifica on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 12:16:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've made no secret that I don't mind the idea of Biden as a VP, but that is the worst reasoning...

What it is is a habit of selling out. Well, we're not really anti-war. I mean, you know, war is still cool and all. You guys'll still like me, right?

Yech...

The more control, the more that requires control. This is the road to chaos. -Frank Herbert, The Dosadi Experiment

by chimneyswift on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 11:43:29 PM EST
but you know, really I mostly don't mind the idea of Biden as a VP candidate. As I VP, he's far from ideal.

The more control, the more that requires control. This is the road to chaos. -Frank Herbert, The Dosadi Experiment
by chimneyswift on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 11:54:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, Biden's duller than shit. A disaster in the making as a campaigner. What is it with Apparatchik Old Dem Fighting Liberals and their thing for malfunctioning outpatients from the Disney Animatronics Lab? Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Biden?
by John Shreffler on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 05:37:55 AM EST
People won't vote for a candidate who tacitly seems to be calling them idiots.

Raise you two Bushes and a Cheney.

Have I ever told you about my poor memory?

by ignorant bystander on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 06:55:31 AM EST
"Serious people", as the word is used by that self-described group, never saw an unnecessary war.

There are necessary wars, but they almost always begin as unnecessary wars started by someone else. The exceptions are few. I think most reasonable people would say that if a foreign leader starts talking about the necessity of war with your country and begins a massive mobilization of their armed forces, you should definitely mobilize your own and seriously consider whether you should strike first or plan on a defense in depth strategy.

Needless to say, only two countries share a land border with us, and neither of them are credible opponents. Short of the rise of another actively expansionist world power like Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, all American wars at present are, therefore, unnecessary.

Really serious people understand this.

"Serious people", on the other hand, are formulating foreign policy from their personal psychological complexes, often including a need to be seen as "serious people" and a need to impose their will violently upon others. George Bush launched an invasion of Iraq not because of WMD or any other threat to the United States, but because his personal psychological inadequacies required him to. In layman's terms, he's mentally ill and a danger to others.

Really serious people keep hoping that the general public will eventually wake up to the realization that much of what has passed for "serious" leadership over bulk of human history is a symptom of serious psychological disorders.

I realize that many of you may think this approach is a non-starter politically, but it is the simple fact of the matter, and politics not based on facts leads to... where we are now.

---Cthulhu for President: Why vote for the lesser evil?

by eodell (eodell at naqada dot org) on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 10:25:48 AM EST
It would lend such credibility to Obama's ticket to have the number two slot filled by a guy whose '88 Presidential campaign ended in disgrace after he was exposed for stealing Neil Kinnoch's campaign commercials, who disastrously and ineffectively chaired the Judiciary Committee during the Clarence Thomas hearings (where Anita Hill was trashed), who bears major responsibility for the bankruptcy bill and who, as a white guy, could give such a ringing endorsement to the cleanliness and articulateness of the biracial guy at the top of the ticket.

Seriously, now!

A Progressive Christian perspective on I/P at Beyond Bethlehem

by RustyPipes (rustdotypipesatyahoodotcom) on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 at 12:13:31 PM EST


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